Speeches

{
    "objects": [
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:05:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p class=\"procedural\" data-HoCid=\"5980428\"> The House resumed from May 10 consideration of the motion that Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)</a>, be read the third time and passed. </p>",
                "fr": "<p class=\"procedural\" data-HoCid=\"5980428\">La Chambre reprend l'\u00e9tude, interrompue le 10 mai, de la motion portant que le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203, Loi modifiant le Code criminel et d\u2019autres lois (fin de la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins)</a>, soit lu pour la troisi\u00e8me fois et adopt\u00e9.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/procedural-1/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "p5980428",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:05:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Ms. Rachel Blaney (North Island\u2014Powell River, NDP)",
                "fr": "Mme Rachel Blaney (North Island\u2014Powell River, NPD)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980429\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to speak to this important issue today.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980430\" data-originallang=\"en\">I want to thank the member for <a data-HoCid=\"214382\" href=\"/politicians/elizabeth-may/\" title=\"Elizabeth May\">Saanich\u2014Gulf Islands</a> for bringing Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> to the House. The bill looks at the reality of phasing out the captivity of dolphins, whales and porpoises.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980431\" data-originallang=\"en\">The riding that I represent, North Island\u2014Powell River, is along the ocean, and these are beings that we live with. That interaction is very important to us. I think of the times I have spent watching this wildlife engage with us in their free natural state. It is important that we are talking about this issue here today.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980432\" data-originallang=\"en\">I also want to take this opportunity to thank my caucus colleague, the member for <a data-HoCid=\"214131\" href=\"/politicians/fin-donnelly/\" title=\"Fin Donnelly\">Port Moody\u2014Coquitlam</a>, for his dedication to the country's oceans, rivers and streams. His commitment to protecting the wildlife that lives within them has resonated with people across Canada. He will not be sitting in the House with us much longer, so it is important to acknowledge the work he has done on files like this one.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980433\" data-originallang=\"en\">I also want to take this opportunity to thank the member for <a data-HoCid=\"214590\" href=\"/politicians/nathan-cullen/\" title=\"Nathan Cullen\">Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley</a>. The member for Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley has always had a special place in my heart because he represents the area where I grew up. I really respect his connection with the communities in that largest of ridings in British Columbia.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980434\" data-originallang=\"en\">A couple of weeks ago, the member came to my riding to talk about his private member's bill on zero-waste packaging. That issue is a huge concern in my riding. Packaging made of plastic takes so long to deteriorate and we know the impact it is having on our oceans.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980435\" data-originallang=\"en\">Without that member's work we would not be standing here today debating Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>. I understand that he is working with the minister right now to push forward his important piece of legislation around zero-waste packaging. It deals with an important issue to make sure we do not fill our landfills with plastics anymore. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980436\" data-originallang=\"en\">If it were not for the member for <a data-HoCid=\"214590\" href=\"/politicians/nathan-cullen/\" title=\"Nathan Cullen\">Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley</a> accepting a letter from me, the member for <a data-HoCid=\"214489\" href=\"/politicians/gord-johns/\" title=\"Gord Johns\">Courtenay\u2014Alberni</a>, the member for <a data-HoCid=\"213912\" href=\"/politicians/alistair-macgregor/\" title=\"Alistair MacGregor\">Cowichan\u2014Malahat\u2014Langford</a>, the member for <a data-HoCid=\"213909\" href=\"/politicians/randall-garrison/\" title=\"Randall Garrison\">Esquimalt\u2014Saanich\u2014Sooke</a>, our colleague from Victoria and Laurel Collins asking him to give up his spot on today's private members' hour, we would not be debating this bill today. I want to acknowledge that and thank him for continuing to work so hard on his zero waste packaging legislation. He will not give up, which is something that I appreciate deeply about the member.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980437\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> proposes to phase out the captivity of whales, dolphins and porpoises in Canada, except in situations like rehabilitation or rescue.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980438\" data-originallang=\"en\">New Democrats will always support the ethical and useful research of these beings in the water, but the research can take place in the wild. Scientists in the wild environment can get a realistic view of the natural behaviours of these animals without causing a lifetime of pain and suffering, which we know is the reality when they are held in captivity.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980439\" data-originallang=\"en\">What we have heard from scientists is that these beings suffer in confinement. They suffer a sense of isolation, serious health problems, reduced lifespans, high infant mortality rates, sensory deprivation, as well as trauma from the transfer to other parks and calf separation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980440\" data-originallang=\"en\">This bill speaks to an important issue where we can get it right and do the right thing. Given the evidence, captive facilities cannot provide for these beings' social or biological needs. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980441\" data-originallang=\"en\">Keeping them in captivity is cruel. They are intelligent social animals. They are acoustically sensitive marine beings that spend their time in the vast oceans. They dive deep down to places many of us will never see.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980442\" data-originallang=\"en\">When we look at their freedom in the wild, to swim freely, to dive deeply, when we think about their confinement, it is so much less. We have heard it is less than 1% of the range that they are used to. Can members imagine that? None of us in this place can imagine being in our environment, doing the things that we do, and suddenly being put into a small box and told that we have to be successful and perform for other people. We cannot ask these beings to do that.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980443\" data-originallang=\"en\">It reminds me of what Maya Angelou said, \u201cWhen you know better, do better.\u201d This is an opportunity in this House to move forward because we now know better, so it is time for us to do better.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980444\" data-originallang=\"en\">Unlike many issues, this really is not a partisan issue. It is a moral issue. It is a bill that is supported by science. We know that whales, porpoises and dolphins in captivity suffer in a way that cannot be justifiable. We know that this bill, Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>, is a reasonable one. It is a balanced piece of legislation. It grandfathers the process and it gives zoos and aquariums time to phase out this practice. This is the right thing to do and I hope everyone in this House takes the opportunity to support this.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980445\" data-originallang=\"en\">When we think about the grandfathering process out of captivity that Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> proposes, we know it will do important things. It will ban live captures under the Fisheries Act, except for rescues when some being out there needs help. Currently, captures are legal if they are licensed. We all need to pause and take a moment to think about what that means. We know that the last capture that happened was belugas near Churchill in 1992, so it is a practice that is not being implemented. However, the fact that it is still there is very concerning, and this bill would remove it.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980446\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> also bans imports and exports, except if licensed for scientific research. This is a hard one, but we want to see an open water sanctuary. We want to see the process happen in a way that is best for the whale, the dolphin or the porpoise. We want to make sure it is under the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act. These are important factors that this bill can bring forward.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980447\" data-originallang=\"en\">Finally, this bill would ban breeding under the animal cruelty provisions of the Criminal Code. This is also very important.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980448\" data-originallang=\"en\">Right now there is a bill before the Senate, Bill <a data-HoCid=\"9630814\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-68/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence\">C-68</a>, that would prohibit the captures but it would not restrict imports or exports by law nor would it ban breeding. This is why we need this bill. This is why I will be supporting it. This is the action that needs to be taken to complete what is happening already.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980449\" data-originallang=\"en\">Twenty marine mammal biologists from around the world released a letter supporting Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>. They said, \u201cAt a minimum, the maintenance of odontocetes [toothed whales, dolphins and porpoises] in commercial captive display facilities for entertainment purposes is no longer supported or justified by the growing body of science on their biological needs.\u201d </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980450\" data-originallang=\"en\"> We know it is the right thing to do and it is time to make sure that people have the opportunity to see these beautiful animals in the wild, to respect what they need and to create a new relationship. Keeping them enclosed is not the right way to go.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980451\" data-originallang=\"en\">When we look at the wild, we know that dolphins, whales and porpoises travel up to 100 miles daily feeding and socializing with other members of their pods. The pods can contain hundreds of individuals with complex social bonds and hierarchies. That is their natural state. In captivity they are in small enclosures and unable to swim in a straight line for any distance. They do not have the ability to dive deep. Sometimes they are housed alone or housed with other animals they are not naturally used to being with. When we look at that isolation with this concern in mind, we know this is the right thing to do.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980452\" data-originallang=\"en\">I look forward to seeing support from all members in this House. We can do the right thing. Today is the day and I look forward to seeing a positive vote.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980429\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, je suis tr\u00e8s fi\u00e8re d'intervenir aujourd'hui au sujet de cette question importante.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980430\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je tiens \u00e0 remercier la d\u00e9put\u00e9e de <a data-HoCid=\"214382\" href=\"/politicians/elizabeth-may/\" title=\"Elizabeth May\">Saanich\u2014Gulf Islands</a> d'avoir pr\u00e9sent\u00e9 le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> \u00e0 la Chambre. Cette mesure l\u00e9gislative vise \u00e0 interdire progressivement la mise en captivit\u00e9 des dauphins, des baleines et des marsouins.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980431\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les c\u00e9tac\u00e9s font partie de la vie des gens de la circonscription que je repr\u00e9sente, North Island\u2014Powell River, car elle est situ\u00e9e au bord de l'oc\u00e9an. Cette relation est tr\u00e8s importante pour nous. Je pense \u00e0 toutes les fois o\u00f9 j'ai observ\u00e9 ces mammif\u00e8res avoir une interaction avec les \u00eatres humains dans leur habitat naturel, o\u00f9 ils vivent en libert\u00e9. Il est important de d\u00e9battre de cette question ici aujourd'hui.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980432\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'aimerais aussi profiter de l'occasion pour remercier mon coll\u00e8gue n\u00e9o-d\u00e9mocrate le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"214131\" href=\"/politicians/fin-donnelly/\" title=\"Fin Donnelly\">Port Moody\u2014Coquitlam</a> de son d\u00e9vouement envers les oc\u00e9ans, les rivi\u00e8res et les ruisseaux du pays. Son engagement \u00e0 l'\u00e9gard de la protection des esp\u00e8ces sauvages qui vivent dans ces cours d'eau trouve un \u00e9cho chez les Canadiens partout au pays. Comme il quittera bient\u00f4t son si\u00e8ge \u00e0 la Chambre, je pense qu'il est important de souligner le travail qu'il a r\u00e9alis\u00e9 dans des dossiers comme celui dont la Chambre est saisie aujourd'hui.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980433\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Je tiens aussi \u00e0 profiter de l'occasion pour remercier le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"214590\" href=\"/politicians/nathan-cullen/\" title=\"Nathan Cullen\">Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley</a>. Ce dernier occupe depuis toujours une place sp\u00e9ciale dans mon coeur, car il repr\u00e9sente la r\u00e9gion o\u00f9 j'ai grandi. J'\u00e9prouve \u00e9norm\u00e9ment de respect pour les liens qu'il entretient avec les localit\u00e9s situ\u00e9es dans la plus vaste des circonscriptions de la Colombie-Britannique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980434\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il y a quelques semaines, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 est venu dans ma circonscription pour parler de son projet de loi d'initiative parlementaire sur les emballages z\u00e9ro d\u00e9chet. Il s'agit d'une question tr\u00e8s pr\u00e9occupante dans ma circonscription. Les emballages en plastique prennent beaucoup de temps \u00e0 se d\u00e9composer, et nous connaissons les r\u00e9percussions qu'ils ont sur les oc\u00e9ans.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980435\" data-originallang=\"en\">Sans le travail de ce d\u00e9put\u00e9, nous ne d\u00e9battrions pas du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> aujourd'hui. Je crois comprendre qu'il collabore actuellement avec la ministre pour faire avancer son importante mesure l\u00e9gislative sur les emballages z\u00e9ro d\u00e9chet. Son projet de loi porte sur une question importante afin de garantir qu'on ne jette plus de mati\u00e8res plastiques dans les sites d'enfouissement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980436\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans une lettre, les d\u00e9put\u00e9s de <a data-HoCid=\"214489\" href=\"/politicians/gord-johns/\" title=\"Gord Johns\">Courtenay\u2014Alberni</a>, de <a data-HoCid=\"213912\" href=\"/politicians/alistair-macgregor/\" title=\"Alistair MacGregor\">Cowichan\u2014Malahat\u2014Langford</a> et d'<a data-HoCid=\"213909\" href=\"/politicians/randall-garrison/\" title=\"Randall Garrison\">Esquimalt\u2014Saanich\u2014Sooke</a>, notre coll\u00e8gue de Victoria, Laurel Collins et moi avons demand\u00e9 au d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"214590\" href=\"/politicians/nathan-cullen/\" title=\"Nathan Cullen\">Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley</a> de c\u00e9der sa place au cours de l'heure r\u00e9serv\u00e9e aujourd'hui aux initiatives parlementaires, et nous ne d\u00e9battrions pas de ce projet de loi actuellement s'il n'avait pas accept\u00e9. Je tiens \u00e0 le souligner et \u00e0 remercier le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de continuer \u00e0 travailler d'arrache-pied sur son projet de loi sur les emballages z\u00e9ro d\u00e9chet. Le d\u00e9put\u00e9 ne baissera pas les bras, ce qui est une qualit\u00e9 que j'appr\u00e9cie profond\u00e9ment chez lui.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980437\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> propose d'\u00e9liminer progressivement la captivit\u00e9 des baleines, des dauphins et des marsouins au Canada, sauf dans les cas de r\u00e9adaptation ou de sauvetage.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980438\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les n\u00e9o-d\u00e9mocrates appuieront toujours les travaux de recherche \u00e9thiques et utiles sur ces animaux aquatiques. La recherche peut toutefois \u00eatre men\u00e9e dans la nature. En milieu sauvage, les scientifiques peuvent avoir une vision r\u00e9aliste des comportements naturels des animaux. Ceux-ci n'ont pas \u00e0 subir une existence de douleur et de souffrance, ce qui est le sort qu'ils connaissent lorsqu'ils sont en captivit\u00e9. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980439\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les scientifiques nous ont affirm\u00e9 que les animaux en question souffrent lorsqu'ils sont en captivit\u00e9. Ils se sentent isol\u00e9s et ont de graves probl\u00e8mes de sant\u00e9, leur dur\u00e9e de vie est moindre, le taux de mortalit\u00e9 des nouveau-n\u00e9s est \u00e9lev\u00e9 et ils souffrent de privation sensorielle. Il y a aussi les traumatismes caus\u00e9s par le transfert d'un parc \u00e0 un autre et la s\u00e9paration du petit de sa m\u00e8re.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980440\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le projet de loi \u00e0 l'\u00e9tude porte sur une question importante que nous pouvons r\u00e9gler correctement en faisant ce qui s'impose. Les faits montrent qu'on ne peut pas r\u00e9pondre aux besoins sociaux et biologiques des animaux lorsqu'on les tient en captivit\u00e9. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980441\" data-originallang=\"en\">La captivit\u00e9 est cruelle. Il s'agit d'animaux intelligents et sociaux. Ce sont des \u00eatres marins sensibles au bruit destin\u00e9s \u00e0 vivre dans de vastes \u00e9tendues oc\u00e9aniques. Ils plongent dans les profondeurs, vers des endroits que beaucoup d'entre nous ne verront jamais. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980442\" data-originallang=\"en\">La captivit\u00e9 leur offre tellement moins que la vie en milieu naturel, o\u00f9 ils jouissent de la libert\u00e9, nagent sans contrainte et plongent vers les profondeurs. Nous avons appris que la captivit\u00e9 leur offre moins de 1 % de l'espace auquel ils sont habitu\u00e9s. Les d\u00e9put\u00e9s peuvent-ils concevoir une telle chose? Personne ici ne peut se voir vivre dans son environnement et mener ses activit\u00e9s courantes, pour ensuite \u00eatre plac\u00e9 dans une petite bo\u00eete et devoir r\u00e9ussir \u00e0 donner des spectacles. Nous ne pouvons pas demander \u00e0 ces animaux de le faire. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980443\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cela me rappelle les paroles suivantes de Maya Angelou: \u00ab Lorsqu'on est plus avis\u00e9, il faut faire mieux. \u00bb La Chambre a l'occasion de faire avancer les choses parce que nous sommes mieux avis\u00e9s. Il est donc temps d'am\u00e9liorer les choses. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980444\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pour une rare fois, nous avons affaire \u00e0 un sujet qui n'a rien de partisan. La science donne raison au projet de loi, car nous savons que les souffrances subies par les baleines, les marsouins et les dauphins en captivit\u00e9 sont injustifiables. Il s'agit d'un projet de loi tout ce qu'il y a de raisonnable et \u00e9quilibr\u00e9. Le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> pr\u00e9voit en outre le maintien des droits acquis, ce qui laissera le temps aux jardins zoologiques et aux aquariums de mettre fin aux pratiques prohib\u00e9es. C'est la voie \u00e0 suivre, et j'esp\u00e8re que nous aurons l'appui de tous les d\u00e9put\u00e9s.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980445\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les dispositions du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> sur le maintien des droits acquis sont particuli\u00e8rement importantes. La mise en captivit\u00e9 de b\u00eates vivantes sera interdite au titre de la Loi sur les p\u00eaches, sauf s'il s'agit d'un sauvetage. \u00c0 l'heure actuelle, la mise en captivit\u00e9 est l\u00e9gale avec un permis. Prenons tous un instant pour y r\u00e9fl\u00e9chir. Nous savons que la derni\u00e8re capture remonte \u00e0 1992 \u2014 des b\u00e9lugas avaient alors \u00e9t\u00e9 pris pr\u00e8s de Churchill \u2014, alors on ne peut pas dire qu'il s'agisse d'une pratique courante, mais n'emp\u00eache, le simple fait qu'elle soit permise est condamnable, et le projet de loi y verra.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980446\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> interdira \u00e9galement l'importation et l'exportation de c\u00e9tac\u00e9s, sauf pour les besoins de la recherche scientifique. C'est radical, je sais, mais nous voulons que les c\u00e9tac\u00e9s ne soient en danger nulle part. Nous voulons ce qu'il y a de mieux pour les baleines, les dauphins et les marsouins, et c'est pourquoi nous tenons \u00e0 modifier la Loi sur la protection d'esp\u00e8ces animales ou v\u00e9g\u00e9tales sauvages et la r\u00e9glementation de leur commerce international et interprovincial. Le projet de loi tient compte de tous ces facteurs importants.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980447\" data-originallang=\"en\">Finalement, et c'est tout auussi important, une fois le projet de loi adopt\u00e9, la reproduction de c\u00e9tac\u00e9s sera englob\u00e9e dans les dispositions du Code criminel portant sur la cruaut\u00e9 envers les animaux.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980448\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"9630814\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-68/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence\">C-68</a>, qui est pr\u00e9sentement au S\u00e9nat, interdirait lui aussi la mise en captivit\u00e9 de c\u00e9tac\u00e9s, mais il n'en restreindrait ni l'importation, ni l'exportation, ni la reproduction. Voil\u00e0 pourquoi nous avons besoin de ce projet de loi-ci, car il permettra de parachever des mesures d\u00e9j\u00e0 entreprises. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980449\" data-originallang=\"en\">Vingt biologistes sp\u00e9cialistes des mammif\u00e8res marins de divers pays ont publi\u00e9 une lettre en faveur du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>. Selon eux, plus les scientifiques en apprennent sur les besoins biologiques des odontoc\u00e8tes \u2014 autrement dit, les baleines munies de dents, les dauphins et les marsouins \u2014, plus on se rend compte qu'il n'est plus justifi\u00e9 de les garder en captivit\u00e9 dans des \u00e9tablissements commerciaux \u00e0 des fins de divertissement et c'est le moins qu'on puisse dire.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980450\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous savons qu'il faut mettre fin \u00e0 leur captivit\u00e9 et il est temps de veiller \u00e0 ce que les gens aient la possibilit\u00e9 de voir ces b\u00eates magnifiques dans la nature, de respecter leurs besoins et de cr\u00e9er une nouvelle relation. Il ne faut pas les garder enferm\u00e9es.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980451\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans la nature, les dauphins, les baleines et les marsouins parcourent jusqu'\u00e0 100 milles par jour pour se nourrir et socialisent avec les autres membres de leur groupe. Un groupe peut compter des centaines d'individus li\u00e9s par une hi\u00e9rarchie et des liens sociaux complexes. C'est leur \u00e9tat naturel. En captivit\u00e9, ils se retrouvent dans de petits espaces clos, incapables de nager en ligne droite. Ils ne peuvent pas plonger en profondeur. Ils sont parfois gard\u00e9s seuls ou avec d'autres animaux qu'ils n'ont pas l'habitude de c\u00f4toyer. Il suffit de songer \u00e0 cet isolement pour comprendre que c'est la chose \u00e0 faire.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980452\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je me r\u00e9jouis \u00e0 l'id\u00e9e d'obtenir l'appui de tous les d\u00e9put\u00e9s. Nous pouvons prendre la bonne d\u00e9cision. C'est aujourd'hui ou jamais, et j'esp\u00e8re vraiment que la mesure sera adopt\u00e9e.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/rachel-blaney-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/rachel-blaney/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4199/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688677",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:10:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)",
                "fr": "M. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980453\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, as the chair of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, I am proud to speak in support of Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\"> S-203</a>, an act to amend the Criminal Code and other acts, also known as the act for ending the captivity of whales and dolphins.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980454\" data-originallang=\"en\">I also realize that I am speaking to the bill two days after World Oceans Day. Canada has the longest coastline in the world, and this past weekend, Canadians across the country raised awareness and celebrated our magnificent oceans. I took part in two community cleanups in Conception Bay, where I live.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980455\" data-originallang=\"en\">While our oceans are vast and full of life, we also recognize the peril many of our ocean friends and marine ecosystems face due to threats from climate change and, of course, pollution. More than ever, we must work together to ensure that our oceans are clean and healthy for the many species that call them home, and to support our communities that depend on them.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980456\" data-originallang=\"en\">Let us imagine whales and dolphins, which are used to having the ocean as their playground or feeding ground, being put in a cage not much bigger than a large outdoor swimming pool. Let us imagine the effect this would have on their ability to survive and flourish if they ever were released again. Let us imagine ourselves being put in a room which is 10 feet by 10 feet and being told that is where we have to live out the rest of our days. It certainly would have drastic effects on anyone, or on any animal, for that matter.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980457\" data-originallang=\"en\">The bill has been strongly supported by my constituents of Avalon, and several members of the House have also supported the bill moving forward. I would like to thank the hon. member for <a data-HoCid=\"214382\" href=\"/politicians/elizabeth-may/\" title=\"Elizabeth May\">Saanich\u2014Gulf Islands</a>, who has been strongly advocating for the bill to move forward in the House, and all the other members who have spoken on the necessity of the bill for the protection of our whales and dolphins.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980458\" data-originallang=\"en\">As many members know, the bill comes to us from the Senate, first by retired senator Wilfred Moore, who originally brought the bill forward in 2016, and then sponsored by Senator Murray Sinclair. The work of these senators cannot go without mention. I would like to thank them for their leadership when it comes to the protection of our oceans and the species that call them home.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980459\" data-originallang=\"en\">Whales and dolphins are part of our Canadian wildlife, and we are very lucky to have them live in our waters. In Newfoundland and Labrador, whales are a major tourist attraction. We see many visitors each year and if they are not coming to see the icebergs, they are coming to see the whales.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980460\" data-originallang=\"en\">Canadians know how important it is to preserve our marine wildlife. That is why our government is not only supporting Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\"> S-203</a>, but through Bill <a data-HoCid=\"9630814\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-68/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence\">C-68</a>, making amendments that also strengthen the bill.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980461\" data-originallang=\"en\">Over the years, we have come to learn more and more about the nature of whales and dolphins and the conditions required for their livelihood. Research has told us that these animals undergo an immense amount of stress when taken into captivity, and this stress persists throughout their life. That is why Canadians and this government support the bill banning the captivity of whales and dolphins.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980462\" data-originallang=\"en\">I want to thank the House leadership team, especially the member for <a data-HoCid=\"214374\" href=\"/politicians/bardish-chagger/\" title=\"Bardish Chagger\">Waterloo</a>, for working so hard to get the bill through the House at this time. Again, I commend the member for <a data-HoCid=\"214382\" href=\"/politicians/elizabeth-may/\" title=\"Elizabeth May\">Saanich\u2014Gulf Islands</a>, Senator Moore and Senator Sinclair for their leadership on the bill and this issue, which is important to so many Canadians. I support the bill and look forward to its passage.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980453\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, je suis fier, \u00e0 titre de pr\u00e9sident du Comit\u00e9 permanent des p\u00eaches et des oc\u00e9ans, d'appuyer le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\"> S-203</a>, Loi modifiant le Code criminel et d\u2019autres lois, aussi connu comme \u00e9tant le projet de loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980454\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je viens de me rendre compte que je prends la parole sur le projet de loi deux jours apr\u00e8s la Journ\u00e9e mondiale des oc\u00e9ans. Le Canada a le plus long littoral du monde et, le week-end dernier, des Canadiens de partout au pays ont sensibilis\u00e9 la population \u00e0 nos magnifiques oc\u00e9ans tout en leur rendant hommage. J'ai particip\u00e9 \u00e0 deux op\u00e9rations de nettoyage communautaires \u00e0 Conception Bay, o\u00f9 j'habite.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980455\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bien que nos oc\u00e9ans soient vastes et regorgent de vie, nous sommes aussi conscients du p\u00e9ril auquel doivent faire face bon nombre de nos amis des oc\u00e9ans et de nos \u00e9cosyst\u00e8mes marins en raison des menaces li\u00e9es aux changements climatiques et, bien s\u00fbr, de la pollution. Plus que jamais, nous devons travailler ensemble pour que nos oc\u00e9ans soient propres et en bonne sant\u00e9 pour les nombreuses esp\u00e8ces qui les habitent, mais aussi pour appuyer nos collectivit\u00e9s qui d\u00e9pendent des oc\u00e9ans.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980456\" data-originallang=\"en\">Imaginons les baleines et les dauphins, qui ont toujours eu l'oc\u00e9an comme terrain de jeu et comme source d'alimentation, qui sont mis dans une cage \u00e0 peine plus grande qu'une grande piscine ext\u00e9rieure. Imaginons l'effet que cela a sur leur capacit\u00e9 de survivre et de s'\u00e9panouir si jamais ils sont rel\u00e2ch\u00e9s. Imaginons-nous dans une pi\u00e8ce de 10 pieds sur 10 pieds, o\u00f9 nous devrions vivre le reste de nos jours. Cela aurait certainement des r\u00e9percussions sur n'importe qui, ou sur n'importe quel animal, d'ailleurs.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980457\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les habitants de ma circonscription, Avalon, appuient fortement le projet de loi, et plusieurs d\u00e9put\u00e9s l'appuient \u00e9galement. Je remercie la d\u00e9put\u00e9e de <a data-HoCid=\"214382\" href=\"/politicians/elizabeth-may/\" title=\"Elizabeth May\">Saanich\u2014Gulf Islands</a>, qui a beaucoup insist\u00e9 pour qu'il aille de l'avant \u00e0 la Chambre, et tous les autres d\u00e9put\u00e9s qui ont parl\u00e9 de la n\u00e9cessit\u00e9 du projet de loi pour la protection de nos baleines et de nos dauphins.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980458\" data-originallang=\"en\">Comme beaucoup de d\u00e9put\u00e9s le savent, le projet de loi nous arrive du S\u00e9nat; il a d'abord \u00e9t\u00e9 pr\u00e9sent\u00e9 par le s\u00e9nateur Wilfred Moore, qui est maintenant \u00e0 la retraite, puis il a \u00e9t\u00e9 parrain\u00e9 par le s\u00e9nateur Murray Sinclair. Le travail de ces s\u00e9nateurs ne peut \u00eatre pass\u00e9 sous silence. J'aimerais les remercier d'avoir pris les choses en main afin de prot\u00e9ger nos oc\u00e9ans et les esp\u00e8ces qui les habitent.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980459\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les baleines et les dauphins font partie de la faune canadienne, et nous sommes tr\u00e8s chanceux de les avoir dans les eaux nationales. \u00c0 Terre-Neuve-et-Labrador, les baleines sont une grande attraction pour les touristes. Chaque ann\u00e9e, nous recevons beaucoup de visiteurs; s'ils ne viennent pas pour voir les icebergs, ils viennent pour voir les baleines.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980460\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les Canadiens savent \u00e0 quel point il est important de pr\u00e9server la faune marine. Voil\u00e0 pourquoi le gouvernement non seulement appuie le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">C-203</a>, mais le renforce au moyen d'amendements propos\u00e9s dans le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"9630814\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-68/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence\">C-68</a>.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980461\" data-originallang=\"en\">Au fil des ans, nous en avons appris davantage sur la situation des baleines et des dauphins et sur les conditions n\u00e9cessaires \u00e0 leur existence. La recherche nous a montr\u00e9 que ces animaux vivent un stress immense lorsqu'ils sont mis en captivit\u00e9, et que ce stress se poursuit tout au long de leur vie. C'est pourquoi les Canadiens et le gouvernement appuient le projet de loi qui interdit la mise en captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980462\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je tiens \u00e0 remercier l'\u00e9quipe de direction de la Chambre, en particulier la d\u00e9put\u00e9e de <a data-HoCid=\"214374\" href=\"/politicians/bardish-chagger/\" title=\"Bardish Chagger\">Waterloo</a>, d'avoir travaill\u00e9 si fort pour faire adopter le projet de loi \u00e0 la Chambre. Je f\u00e9licite de nouveau la d\u00e9put\u00e9e de <a data-HoCid=\"214382\" href=\"/politicians/elizabeth-may/\" title=\"Elizabeth May\">Saanich\u2014Gulf Islands</a>, le s\u00e9nateur Moore et le s\u00e9nateur Sinclair de leur leadership dans le cadre du projet de loi, car ce dossier est important pour beaucoup de Canadiens. J'appuie le projet de loi et j'ai h\u00e2te qu'il soit adopt\u00e9. </p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/ken-mcdonald-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/ken-mcdonald/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4366/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688681",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:15:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Hon. Rob Nicholson (Niagara Falls, CPC)",
                "fr": "L'hon. Rob Nicholson (Niagara Falls, PCC)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980463\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, I am rising in the House to speak to Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>. Despite good intentions, this legislation is flawed in its current form. It should come as no surprise that there are many issues with this bill. In the short time it has been before the House for consideration, one of the major problems identified is an English-French language conflict in the text of the bill.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980464\" data-originallang=\"en\">As we all know, Canada is a bilingual country. Our two official languages are French and English, and all legislation drafted and passed in Parliament reflects this. Anyone who has ever read these documents knows that the English text is on the left side, while the French text is on the right. We also know that Canadian laws and legislation must be applied in the same manner for all Canadians, regardless of language. This is fundamental for ensuring a fair justice system, which is key to our democracy. Otherwise, it would be grossly unfair and inhumane for a state to subject its citizens to different laws and penalties based on the language they speak. I hope in this place, and across Canada, we can all agree on that.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980465\" data-originallang=\"en\">That is why I believe the mistake in Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> was an unfortunate oversight made by the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. Issues like this are more likely to happen when legislation is rushed through the process without being subject to a thorough study. As members may know, Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> was given only two meetings before it was pushed ahead without amendment. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980466\" data-originallang=\"en\">It began on March 18, 2019. In a meeting of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, the government member from <a data-HoCid=\"214342\" href=\"/politicians/pat-finnigan/\" title=\"Pat Finnigan\">Miramichi\u2014Grand Lake</a> identified an important and significant language conflict in the text of Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>. The following is a quote from the Evidence, as the member questioned a department official on this issue:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980467\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Another thing that would need to be clarified for me is clause 4 of Bill S-203 to prohibit the importation to Canada of living cetaceans as well as cetacean tissue or embryos, subject to a special permit. Apparently the English text of the clause refers to permits issued pursuant to proposed subsection 10(1.1) of WAPPRIITA [the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act] while the French version of the text is silent on the type of importation permit required. That sounds very odd. I wouldn't know of any other piece of legislation in which the French version would be different from the English version. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980468\" data-originallang=\"en\">The departmental official replied, \u201cI am not completely sure about the two clauses you are referencing. I haven't done a comparison of the English to the French so I don't have a response for you on that.\u201d In response, the member asked, \u201cDo you think we should clarify that?\u201d The departmental official replied, \u201cIt would be important to make sure that the intent in both the English and the French is the same.\u201d</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980469\" data-originallang=\"en\">Interestingly, it was a member of the current government, from a bilingual province, who flagged this critical language concern. It is also interesting how the department official stressed the importance of getting the language right.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980470\" data-originallang=\"en\">The story does not end there. It continues.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980471\" data-originallang=\"en\">On March 26, 2019, the Honourable J.C. Major, a former Supreme Court justice, penned a letter to all members of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. He, too, identified the same language conflict as the member did. However, rather than merely stating his concern, he elevated the issue to be a constitutional matter. In addition to that, he informed the committee that this part requires amendment.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980472\" data-originallang=\"en\">This is what the Honourable J.C. Major wrote to the members of the committee in his letter:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980473\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I have reviewed the proposed Section 7.1 which is scheduled as an amendment to Bill S-203 of the Wild Animal and Plant Protection Regulation of International and lnterprovincial Trade Act (WAPPRIITA). </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980474\" data-originallang=\"en\"> In addition I have reviewed the French to English and English to French review certified by...ABCO International which on review concludes that the wording of Section 7.1 between the French and English version is starkly different. The question raised is whether the difference is so material that compliance is affected. In my opinion the differences are material and confusion is inevitable and an amendment is the only remedy that will clarify the intent and purpose of Section 7.1. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980475\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Canada, by virtue of the Federal Government's legislation, confirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada and evidenced by the Charter of Rights, is officially bilingual. In addition, under S.18 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Part 1 of the Constitution Act 1982), both English and French are made equally authoritative. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980476\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Given that both languages are authoritative and that differences between the French and English drafting of Section 7.1 are materially different, it is apparent that revisions by way of amendment of that section would by its uniformity confirm Parliament's intention as the section would then be clear to parties affected by it and invaluable to the judiciary. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980477\" data-originallang=\"en\"> The latter consideration is important as explained below as case law is replete with decisions evidencing the difficulty the courts in all provinces have from time to time reconciling statutory conflicts and either succeeded in doing so or entering an acquittal. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980478\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Section 7.1 of Bill S-203 is an enforcement provision under the Act. Given the conflict in the English and French versions of the proposed legislation its passage without a clarification amendment would, in the event of an illegal violation and subsequent prosecution, present a dilemma to the court. An obvious example being that an application under the English version would be required to meet the conditions set out in s. 10(1.1) whereas an application adhering to the French version would not. In the result the same law would be different depending on the site of the application. Should a charge be laid under the proposed Section 7.1 the difficulty described would be left to the court then to attempt a reconciliation of the conflict in the language and if not possible to strike down the section and order an acquittal. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980479\" data-originallang=\"en\"> The foregoing is a brief response to the difficulties that are inevitable if there is no amendment clarifying the intent of the legislation. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980480\" data-originallang=\"en\"> It is of value to consider the unequivocal recommendation number 35 of the Uniform Law Conference of Canada which concluded \u201cthe English and French versions of a bilingual Act must be identical in substance\u201d. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980481\" data-originallang=\"en\">My observation is that the member and the former Supreme Court justice both share the same concern: There is a language conflict in the bill's text. That common ground should be encouraging. However, what happened next in the committee at clause-by-clause was anything but. My party brought forward two amendments. One would make the English text read the same as the French, and the other would make the French text read the same as the English. Both amendments were rejected by the government, and Justice Major's legal opinion was ignored.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980482\" data-originallang=\"en\">My second observation at committee was about the four government amendments that the member for <a data-HoCid=\"214342\" href=\"/politicians/pat-finnigan/\" title=\"Pat Finnigan\">Miramichi\u2014Grand Lake</a> suddenly withdrew at clause-by-clause. The withdrawals came as a surprise to the opposition members, because they were sensible amendments. Their intent was largely to coordinate Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> with the Liberals' own Bill <a data-HoCid=\"9630814\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-68/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence\">C-68</a>, which I can understand. Both bills share overlapping objectives, and if both were to pass, their implementation could clash or create confusion. In short, it made little sense for the member to make those withdrawals, especially when the changes were responsible ones that the Conservatives were prepared to support.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980483\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Here we are then. This is the second hour of third reading of Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>. This bill is flawed. A former Supreme Court justice was called in. Bill S-203 is a constitutional challenge in waiting, and the scariest thing is that this bill is about to come into force.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980484\" data-originallang=\"fr\">This is as good a time as any to remind all members of the House that it is our responsibility as parliamentarians to ensure that the bills we pass are constitutional and legally sound. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980485\" data-originallang=\"en\">Given the government's majority position, this decision ultimately weighs on the Liberal government to do what is right. It must act in the best interests of Canadians. That action is passing legally sound and constitutional legislation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980486\" data-originallang=\"en\"> So here we are, at the second hour of third reading debate. The bill, in its current form, is flawed. A former Supreme Court justice has weighed in on the constitutionality, and those changes needed to be made. Now is a good time to remind all members of the House that it is our responsibility as parliamentarians to ensure that all laws we pass are constitutional and legally sound.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980487\" data-originallang=\"en\">Given these reasons, I hope the government reconsiders its position on Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980463\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, je prends la parole \u00e0 la Chambre au sujet du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>. Malgr\u00e9 de bonnes intentions, le projet de loi, dans sa forme actuelle, laisse \u00e0 d\u00e9sirer. Il n'est donc pas surprenant qu'il comporte de nombreuses lacunes. Dans le peu de temps o\u00f9 la Chambre en a \u00e9t\u00e9 saisie, elle a cern\u00e9 quelques probl\u00e8mes importants, notamment un manque de concordance entre les versions anglaise et fran\u00e7aise du libell\u00e9 du projet de loi.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980464\" data-originallang=\"en\">Comme nous le savons tous, le Canada est un pays bilingue. Nos deux langues officielles sont le fran\u00e7ais et l'anglais, et toutes les lois r\u00e9dig\u00e9es et adopt\u00e9es au Parlement en t\u00e9moignent. Quiconque a d\u00e9j\u00e0 lu ce genre de document sait que le texte anglais est \u00e0 gauche et le texte fran\u00e7ais, \u00e0 droite. Nous savons aussi que les lois et les r\u00e8glements canadiens doivent s'appliquer uniform\u00e9ment \u00e0 tous les Canadiens, peu importe leur langue. Il s'agit d'un principe fondamental pour que le syst\u00e8me de justice soit \u00e9quitable, ce qui est essentiel \u00e0 notre d\u00e9mocratie. Apr\u00e8s tout, il serait tout \u00e0 fait injuste et inhumain qu'un \u00c9tat soumette ses citoyens \u00e0 des lois et \u00e0 des peines diff\u00e9rentes en fonction de la langue qu'ils parlent. J'esp\u00e8re que les d\u00e9put\u00e9s et les Canadiens en conviendront tous.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980465\" data-originallang=\"en\">Voil\u00e0 pourquoi je pense que l'erreur que l'on trouve dans le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> d\u00e9coule d'une n\u00e9gligence regrettable faite par le Comit\u00e9 permanent des p\u00eaches et des oc\u00e9ans. Les erreurs de ce genre risquent davantage de survenir lorsque les projets de loi sont adopt\u00e9s dans la pr\u00e9cipitation et sans faire l'objet d'une \u00e9tude approfondie. Comme les d\u00e9put\u00e9s le savent, le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> n'a \u00e9t\u00e9 \u00e9tudi\u00e9 que pendant deux s\u00e9ances avant d'\u00eatre renvoy\u00e9 sans proposition d'amendement. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980466\" data-originallang=\"en\">Tout a commenc\u00e9 le 18 mars 2019. Lors d'une r\u00e9union du Comit\u00e9 permanent des p\u00eaches et des oc\u00e9ans, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 minist\u00e9riel de <a data-HoCid=\"214342\" href=\"/politicians/pat-finnigan/\" title=\"Pat Finnigan\">Miramichi\u2014Grand Lake</a> a relev\u00e9 une grave incoh\u00e9rence dans le libell\u00e9 du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>. Voici ce qu'une fonctionnaire a r\u00e9pondu au d\u00e9put\u00e9 lors de cette audience:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980467\" data-originallang=\"en\"> J'aimerais aussi clarifier l'article 4 du projet de loi S-203, celui qui concerne l'interdiction d'importer au Canada des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s vivants, des cultures tissulaires ou des embryons de c\u00e9tac\u00e9s, \u00e0 moins qu'un permis sp\u00e9cial ne soit d\u00e9livr\u00e9. Il est question, dans la version anglaise de la disposition, de permis d\u00e9livr\u00e9s en conformit\u00e9 avec le paragraphe 10(1.1) propos\u00e9 de la LPEAVSRCII [Loi sur la protection d\u2019esp\u00e8ces animales ou v\u00e9g\u00e9tales sauvages et la r\u00e9glementation de leur commerce international et interprovincial et de son r\u00e8glement d\u2019application], tandis que la version fran\u00e7aise ne mentionne pas le type de permis d'importation requis. Cela me semble tr\u00e8s \u00e9trange. Je ne connais aucun autre texte de loi o\u00f9 la version fran\u00e7aise diff\u00e8re de la version anglaise. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980468\" data-originallang=\"en\">La fonctionnaire a r\u00e9pondu: \u00ab Je ne suis pas certaine de savoir de quelles deux clauses vous parlez. Je n'ai pas compar\u00e9 la version anglaise \u00e0 la version fran\u00e7aise, alors je ne saurais vous r\u00e9pondre. \u00bb Le d\u00e9put\u00e9 a alors r\u00e9pliqu\u00e9: \u00ab Pensez-vous qu'il nous faudrait apporter des pr\u00e9cisions? \u00bb, et la fonctionnaire de r\u00e9pondre: \u00ab Ce serait important de veiller \u00e0 ce que l'intention soit la m\u00eame en anglais et en fran\u00e7ais. \u00bb</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980469\" data-originallang=\"en\">Fait int\u00e9ressant, c'est un d\u00e9put\u00e9 du gouvernement, d'une province bilingue, qui a soulev\u00e9 cette pr\u00e9occupation majeure par rapport au libell\u00e9. Il est \u00e9galement int\u00e9ressant de noter que la fonctionnaire du minist\u00e8re a bien soulign\u00e9 la n\u00e9cessit\u00e9 de veiller \u00e0 la concordance des deux versions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980470\" data-originallang=\"en\">L'histoire ne s'arr\u00eate pas l\u00e0. Il y a eu d'autres d\u00e9veloppements.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980471\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le 26 mars 2019, l'ancien juge J.C. Major, de la Cour supr\u00eame du Canada, a envoy\u00e9 une lettre \u00e0 tous les membres du Comit\u00e9 permanent des p\u00eaches et des oc\u00e9ans. Il a, comme le d\u00e9put\u00e9, soulev\u00e9 cette non-concordance entre les deux versions. Cependant, il n'a pas seulement exprim\u00e9 son inqui\u00e9tude: il a dit que cet \u00e9cart constituait une question constitutionnelle. De plus, il a indiqu\u00e9 au Comit\u00e9 que cette partie devait \u00eatre amend\u00e9e.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980472\" data-originallang=\"en\">Voici ce que disait la lettre que J.C. Major a envoy\u00e9e aux membres du comit\u00e9:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980473\" data-originallang=\"en\"> J'ai \u00e9tudi\u00e9 l'article 7.1 propos\u00e9 dans le projet de loi S-203, qui doit constituer une modification \u00e0 la Loi sur la protection d\u2019esp\u00e8ces animales ou v\u00e9g\u00e9tales sauvages et la r\u00e9glementation de leur commerce international et interprovincial. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980474\" data-originallang=\"en\"> De plus, j'ai pass\u00e9 en revue l'examen de l'anglais vers le fran\u00e7ais et du fran\u00e7ais vers l'anglais certifi\u00e9 par [...] ABCO International. L'entreprise conclut que le libell\u00e9 de l'article 7.1 est nettement diff\u00e9rent dans les versions fran\u00e7aise et anglaise. La question consiste \u00e0 d\u00e9terminer si l'\u00e9cart est suffisamment grand pour nuire \u00e0 la conformit\u00e9. \u00c0 mon avis, les diff\u00e9rences sont importantes et elles entra\u00eeneront in\u00e9vitablement de la confusion. L'adoption d'un amendement est la seule fa\u00e7on de clarifier l'intention et l'objet de l'article 7.1. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980475\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Le Canada, \u00e9tant donn\u00e9 la loi f\u00e9d\u00e9rale, est officiellement bilingue, un fait confirm\u00e9 par la Cour supr\u00eame du Canada et appuy\u00e9 par la Charte des droits. De plus, aux termes de l'article 18 de la Charte des droits et libert\u00e9s (partie I de la Loi constitutionnelle de 1982), les versions fran\u00e7aise et anglaise ont \u00e9galement force de loi. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980476\" data-originallang=\"en\"> \u00c9tant donn\u00e9 que les deux langues font autorit\u00e9 et que la teneur du libell\u00e9 fran\u00e7ais et du libell\u00e9 anglais de l'article 7.1 est consid\u00e9rablement diff\u00e9rente, il est \u00e9vident que l'uniformisation des deux libell\u00e9s par la voie d'un amendement confirmerait l'intention du Parlement, puisque l'article serait alors clair pour les parties concern\u00e9es et serait d'une pr\u00e9cieuse aide aux instances judiciaires. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980477\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Comme je l'explique plus loin, ce dernier facteur est important, puisque la jurisprudence abonde en d\u00e9cisions t\u00e9moignant de la difficult\u00e9 qu'\u00e9prouvent parfois les tribunaux de toutes les provinces \u00e0 concilier les conflits dans les lois. Lorsqu'ils n'y parviennent pas, cela m\u00e8ne \u00e0 un verdict d'acquittement. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980478\" data-originallang=\"en\"> L'article 7.1 du projet de loi S-203 est une disposition relative \u00e0 l'application en vertu de la loi. Vu le conflit entre les versions anglaise et fran\u00e7aise de la mesure l\u00e9gislative propos\u00e9e, son adoption sans amendement pour apporter des pr\u00e9cisions poserait, en cas de violation et de poursuites subs\u00e9quentes, un dilemme au tribunal. Un exemple \u00e9vident est qu'une demande en vertu de la version anglaise devrait satisfaire les conditions \u00e9tablies au paragraphe 10(1.1) alors qu'une demande conforme \u00e0 la version fran\u00e7aise n'aurait pas \u00e0 les satisfaire. En cons\u00e9quence, la m\u00eame loi diff\u00e9rerait selon le lieu de la demande. Dans l'\u00e9ventualit\u00e9 d'une accusation port\u00e9e aux termes de l'article 7.1 propos\u00e9, il reviendrait alors au tribunal de s'occuper de la difficult\u00e9 d\u00e9crite en tentant d'aplanir le conflit dans le libell\u00e9 ou, si c'est impossible, d'invalider l'article et de rendre un verdict d'acquittement. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980479\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Ce qui pr\u00e9c\u00e8de montre bri\u00e8vement les difficult\u00e9s qui surviendront in\u00e9vitablement si aucun amendement n'est adopt\u00e9 pour clarifier l'intention du projet de loi. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980480\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Il est utile de tenir compte de la recommandation n<sup>o</sup> 35 de la Conf\u00e9rence pour l'harmonisation des lois au Canada, qui conclut, sans \u00e9quivoque: \u00ab Les versions fran\u00e7aise et anglaise d'une loi bilingue doivent \u00eatre identiques quant au fond. \u00bb </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980481\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je constate que le d\u00e9put\u00e9 et l'ancien juge de la Cour supr\u00eame partagent la m\u00eame inqui\u00e9tude, \u00e0 savoir qu'un \u00e9l\u00e9ment du texte anglais du projet de loi ne concorde pas avec le fran\u00e7ais. Ce consensus devrait \u00eatre encourageant. Toutefois, ce qui s'est pass\u00e9 ensuite au comit\u00e9 lors de l'\u00e9tude article par article ne l'a pas \u00e9t\u00e9 du tout. Des d\u00e9put\u00e9s de mon parti ont pr\u00e9sent\u00e9 deux amendements. Le premier visait \u00e0 faire correspondre le libell\u00e9 anglais au libell\u00e9 fran\u00e7ais, et le deuxi\u00e8me \u00e0 faire correspondre le libell\u00e9 fran\u00e7ais au libell\u00e9 anglais. Le gouvernement a rejet\u00e9 les deux amendements, ignorant ainsi l'avis juridique du juge Major. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980482\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ensuite, j'ai remarqu\u00e9 que lors de cette m\u00eame r\u00e9union du comit\u00e9, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"214342\" href=\"/politicians/pat-finnigan/\" title=\"Pat Finnigan\">Miramichi\u2014Grand Lake</a> a subitement retir\u00e9 quatre amendements du gouvernement \u00e0 l'\u00e9tape de l'\u00e9tude article par article. Les d\u00e9put\u00e9s de l'opposition ont tous \u00e9t\u00e9 surpris de ces retraits, parce que les amendements \u00e9taient raisonnables. Ils visaient surtout \u00e0 harmoniser le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> au projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"9630814\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-68/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence\">C-68</a> des lib\u00e9raux, ce qui est compr\u00e9hensible. Ces deux mesures l\u00e9gislatives ont des objectifs qui se chevauchent. Si elles \u00e9taient toutes deux adopt\u00e9es, leur mise en oeuvre pourrait cr\u00e9er un conflit ou susciter de la confusion. Bref, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 n'avait pas de raison valable de faire ces retraits, surtout comme les changements \u00e9taient responsables et que les conservateurs \u00e9taient pr\u00eats \u00e0 les appuyer.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980483\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Voil\u00e0 donc o\u00f9 nous en sommes. C'est la deuxi\u00e8me heure de la troisi\u00e8me lecture du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>. Ce projet de loi est d\u00e9ficient. Un ancien juge de la Cour supr\u00eame a \u00e9t\u00e9 appel\u00e9. Le projet de loi S-203 est une contestation constitutionnelle en attente, et le plus effrayant, c'est que ce projet de loi est sur le point d'avoir force de loi.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980484\" data-originallang=\"fr\">C'est un moment comme un autre pour rappeler \u00e0 tous les d\u00e9put\u00e9s de la Chambre que, en tant que parlementaires, nous avons la responsabilit\u00e9 de nous assurer que les lois que nous adoptons sont constitutionnelles et solides sur le plan juridique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980485\" data-originallang=\"en\">Puisque le gouvernement lib\u00e9ral d\u00e9tient la majorit\u00e9, c'est \u00e0 lui que revient la d\u00e9cision ultime de prendre les mesures qui s'imposent. Il doit agir dans l'int\u00e9r\u00eat sup\u00e9rieur des Canadiens en adoptant des projets de loi logiques et constitutionnels.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980486\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Nous voil\u00e0 donc \u00e0 la deuxi\u00e8me heure du d\u00e9bat \u00e0 l'\u00e9tape de la troisi\u00e8me lecture, et le projet de loi dans sa forme actuelle comporte toujours des lacunes. Un ancien juge de la Cour supr\u00eame s'est pench\u00e9 sur la constitutionnalit\u00e9 du projet de loi et a d\u00e9termin\u00e9 que des modifications devaient y \u00eatre apport\u00e9es. Je pense qu'il serait utile de rappeler \u00e0 tous les d\u00e9put\u00e9s que nous avons la responsabilit\u00e9 en tant que parlementaires de veiller \u00e0 ce que toutes les lois que nous adoptons sont constitutionnelles et sens\u00e9es sur le plan juridique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980487\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pour ces raisons, j'esp\u00e8re que le gouvernement changera sa position \u00e0 l'\u00e9gard du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/rob-nicholson-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/rob-nicholson/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1396/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688687",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:25:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay\u2014Alberni, NDP)",
                "fr": "M. Gord Johns (Courtenay\u2014Alberni, NPD)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980488\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, it is a huge honour to speak today in the House of Commons. With this bill and with the support of my hon. colleagues, Canada is on the cusp of making history and ending cetacean captivity and making sure it is a thing of the past. Not only is this important to me, but it is important to the people of my riding, to people right across this country from coast to coast to coast, to countless environmental stewards who have fought hard on this issue, and certainly to the Nuu-chah-nulth people and indigenous people across this country.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980489\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I have heard from many of them. Many Nuu-chah-nulth people see the orca, in their language the <em>kakaw\u2019in</em>, as a spirit animal and as an animal that is a reflection of their ancestors. To think of their ancestors being held in captivity is certainly something they do not want to see happen again.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980490\" data-originallang=\"en\">If we pass this bill, it would do a couple of things. First, it would give us credibility and legitimacy to take it even further, to push for a global ban on having cetaceans held in captivity. We know that cetaceans held in captivity suffer in a way that is not justifiable. Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> is a reasonable, balanced piece of legislation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980491\" data-originallang=\"en\">Let us look at the life of a captive whale, dolphin or porpoise. In captivity, conditions are spartan and prison-like. Cetaceans suffer confinement, isolation, health problems, reduced lifespans, high infant mortality rates, sensory deprivation and trauma from transfer to other parks and calf separation. Given the evidence, captive facilities cannot provide for their social or biological needs. They need to roam widely and dive deep in order to thrive. The range of captive orcas is only 1/10,000th of 1% the size of their natural home range, and 80% of their time is spent at the surface, looking for food and attention from their trainers, who make the choices for them when they are held in captivity. Captive-born animals are often forcibly weaned and shipped to other facilities, away from their mothers and the only companions they have ever known. It creates unnecessary trauma. It is cruel.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980492\" data-originallang=\"en\">Let us compare that to wild cetaceans. They spend approximately 80% to 90% of their time under the water. They have the freedom to make their own choices, sometimes travelling up to 100 miles per day, following food and the members of their family. Many of these species, like the orcas, live in complex societies with their own cultures and dialects, maintaining close ties with family and friends. Some remain in family groups for life. For wild orcas, their pod is critical to their survival.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980493\" data-originallang=\"en\">I want to add that I am excited that we just had a baby orca in the pod off Tofino, witnessed by my good friends Jennifer Steven and John Forde. It is another reminder of the importance of our orcas being able to roam freely in the wild and knowing that a baby orca will not be taken and put into captivity. It is a relief to all of us.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980494\" data-originallang=\"en\">We know that keeping cetaceans is cruel, given the scientific evidence about their nature and behaviour. They are intelligent, social and acoustically sensitive marine animals.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980495\" data-originallang=\"en\">New Democrats believe in the power of research, and we know that the continued study of cetaceans can be done ethically in the wild. There, scientists can get a realistic view of their natural behaviours without causing a lifetime of pain and suffering. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980496\" data-originallang=\"en\">Our party also understands the need for legislation to be measured, and Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> does balance a fair transition for the two remaining facilities that hold captive cetaceans. It grandfathers in existing animals and gives the zoo and aquarium community a long phase-out period. It is not asking these facilities to close overnight. Certainly we will not be supporting the movement of cetaceans or sale of cetaceans anywhere from those facilities.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980497\" data-originallang=\"en\">There are a few people we need to thank today. First of all, we need to thank the hundreds of thousands of Canadians who brought their voice to all elected officials, whether in the House of Commons or in the Senate, calling for this legislation to be passed; the environmental groups and animal rights organizations for mobilizing people; and indigenous communities for raising their concerns, which led to the bill and today's debate.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980498\" data-originallang=\"en\">Also, there are people in the House whom we need to thank, for coming together and showing this is not a partisan issue; it is a moral issue. First, I want to thank my colleague from <a data-HoCid=\"214590\" href=\"/politicians/nathan-cullen/\" title=\"Nathan Cullen\">Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley</a>. He had a very important piece of legislation to end zero-waste packaging, with which we hope the government will move forward. It made some announcements today in response to my motion, Motion No. 151, around phasing out single-use plastics. I would like to congratulate the government on that first step, and I look forward to seeing more momentum and movement, especially around industrial-use plastics, and rethinking how we use plastics.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980499\" data-originallang=\"en\">I thank my colleague from <a data-HoCid=\"214590\" href=\"/politicians/nathan-cullen/\" title=\"Nathan Cullen\">Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley</a> because his bill was supposed to be in the House today, and he gave up his spot so we could move forward with this piece of legislation, knowing the only way we could save it was for it to be in the House today. I also want to thank Terrace's Ben Korving. He is the one who helped my colleague from Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley bring the bill forward on zero-waste packaging through a contest held in his riding to ensure Canadians' voices were heard in the House. We have not lost sight of Ben's work. We have ensured the government heard the proposal that Ben brought forward. I want to thank them both.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980500\" data-originallang=\"en\">In that same spirit, I want to thank my colleague and friend from <a data-HoCid=\"214382\" href=\"/politicians/elizabeth-may/\" title=\"Elizabeth May\">Saanich\u2014Gulf Islands</a> for the considerable work she has done on this issue and the stewardship she has shown by taking on this bill, working with us to find a path forward and showing a non-partisan approach when it comes to ensuring we do the right thing for cetaceans, which do not have a voice. We are their voice and this is an opportunity to demonstrate what we are going to do to look out for them.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980501\" data-originallang=\"en\">I want to thank my colleague and friend from <a data-HoCid=\"214131\" href=\"/politicians/fin-donnelly/\" title=\"Fin Donnelly\">Port Moody\u2014Coquitlam</a>, the former vice-chair of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, who helped move this bill through committee and worked very hard on it. I also want to thank my friend and colleague, the chair of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, the member for <a data-HoCid=\"214398\" href=\"/politicians/ken-mcdonald/\" title=\"Ken McDonald\">Avalon</a>, who has done some great work to help ensure the passage of this bill. I really mean that, because without his help, working with all of us in the House, we would not have got this done. I commend him for his work on that.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980502\" data-originallang=\"en\">This bill would not have made it this far without the courageous and bold efforts of Senator Wilfred Moore. We sometimes raise concerns about the Senate, and I certainly have my doubts right now on a number of pieces of legislation, so I will take it away from the Senate and give it to a human being who is a huge champion, and that is retired senator Wilfred Moore. He has been a champion of this bill. He tabled this bill in the Senate and stayed on this bill even beyond his retirement, showing his dedication and commitment, and we owe him a round of applause. I thank him for being completely committed and devoted to seeing this through.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980503\" data-originallang=\"en\">I thank Senator Murray Sinclair for taking on and championing this bill in the Senate, bringing the really important wealth of indigenous knowledge and his connections across this country and ensuring those voices were also heard in the Senate.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980504\" data-originallang=\"en\">In closing, I hope this bill passes very quickly. I thank the hundreds of thousands of Canadians who have been the voice of cetaceans, which do not have a voice, and look forward to Canada having legitimacy and credibility on the international stage when it comes to fighting for cetaceans and ending the captivity of whales internationally. I hope that is the next step for our country.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980488\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, c'est pour moi un immense honneur de prendre la parole aujourd'hui \u00e0 la Chambre des communes. Avec ce projet de loi et le soutien de mes coll\u00e8gues, le Canada est sur le point de poser un geste historique en interdisant la captivit\u00e9 des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s et en faisant de cette pratique une chose du pass\u00e9. C'est important pour moi, mais aussi pour les gens de ma circonscription et de l'ensemble du pays, pour d'innombrables protecteurs de l'environnement qui ont d\u00e9fendu ce dossier avec vigueur et, naturellement, pour la nation des Nuu-chah-nulth et les peuples autochtones du pays.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980489\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nombre d'entre eux m'en ont parl\u00e9. Par exemple, bien des membres de la nation des Nuu-chah-nulth consid\u00e8rent l'\u00e9paulard, ou <em>kakaw\u2019in</em>, dans leur langue, comme leur totem, c'est-\u00e0-dire un animal qui incarne leurs anc\u00eatres. Il est donc normal qu'ils ne veuillent plus le voir en captivit\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980490\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Ce projet de loi ferait un certain nombre de choses. Premi\u00e8rement, il conf\u00e9rerait la cr\u00e9dibilit\u00e9 et la l\u00e9gitimit\u00e9 n\u00e9cessaires aux efforts qui sont d\u00e9ploy\u00e9s pour qu'on aille encore plus loin en interdisant la captivit\u00e9 des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s partout dans le monde. Nous savons que les c\u00e9tac\u00e9s gard\u00e9s en captivit\u00e9 souffrent de fa\u00e7on indue. Le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> est un projet de loi raisonnable et \u00e9quilibr\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980491\" data-originallang=\"en\">Penchons-nous un instant sur les conditions de vie spartiates et quasi carc\u00e9rales des baleines, des dauphins et des marsouins en captivit\u00e9. Les c\u00e9tac\u00e9s souffrent de plusieurs maux: isolement, probl\u00e8mes de sant\u00e9, dur\u00e9e de vie r\u00e9duite, taux de mortalit\u00e9 infantile tr\u00e8s \u00e9lev\u00e9s, privation sensorielle, et traumatisme caus\u00e9 par le transfert d'un parc \u00e0 un autre et par la s\u00e9paration du petit de sa m\u00e8re. Les renseignements dont nous disposons nous montrent que les installations dans lesquels sont gard\u00e9s ces animaux ne peuvent r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 leurs besoins sociaux et biologiques. Ces esp\u00e8ces ont besoin d'un vaste espace pour nager et plonger en profondeur. Un \u00e9paulard en captivit\u00e9 vit dans seulement un dix-milli\u00e8me de 1 % de son habitat naturel. En captivit\u00e9, il passe 80 % de son temps \u00e0 la surface de l'eau, en qu\u00eate de nourriture et de l'attention de ses dresseurs, qui d\u00e9cident tout pour lui. Les animaux n\u00e9s en captivit\u00e9 sont souvent sevr\u00e9s de force et exp\u00e9di\u00e9s dans d'autres installations. On les arrache de leur m\u00e8re et des seuls compagnons qu'ils connaissent. Tout cela repr\u00e9sente une source de traumatisme qui pourrait \u00eatre \u00e9vit\u00e9e. C'est cruel.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980492\" data-originallang=\"en\">Comparons les conditions des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s en captivit\u00e9 avec celles des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s sauvages. Ces derniers passent entre 80 % et 90 % de leur temps sous l'eau. Ils sont libres d'agir comme bon leur semble; ainsi, certains parcourent jusqu'\u00e0 100 milles par jour pour se nourrir ou pour suivre des membres de leur famille. Bon nombre de ces esp\u00e8ces, comme les \u00e9paulards, entretiennent des liens familiaux et amicaux \u00e9troits, et \u00e9voluent au sein de soci\u00e9t\u00e9s complexes poss\u00e9dant leur propre culture et leurs propres dialectes. Certains demeurent toute leur vie parmi leur groupe familial. Chez les \u00e9paulards sauvages, le groupe auquel ils appartiennent est essentiel \u00e0 leur survie. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980493\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je suis ravie d'annoncer qu'un b\u00e9b\u00e9 \u00e9paulard est n\u00e9 au sein du groupe qui se tient pr\u00e8s de Tofino. Mes bons amis Jennifer Steven et John Forde ont \u00e9t\u00e9 t\u00e9moins de cette naissance. Voil\u00e0 qui rappelle l'importance de laisser les \u00e9paulards en libert\u00e9 dans la nature. De plus, c'est un soulagement pour tous de savoir que ce b\u00e9b\u00e9 \u00e9paulard ne sera pas mis en captivit\u00e9. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980494\" data-originallang=\"en\">Compte tenu des preuves scientifiques concernant la nature et le comportement des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s, on sait qu'il est cruel de garder en captivit\u00e9 ces animaux marins intelligents et sociables qui poss\u00e8dent une ou\u00efe extr\u00eamement sensible. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980495\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les n\u00e9o-d\u00e9mocrates croient dans la validit\u00e9 de la recherche et on sait qu'il est possible de continuer \u00e0 \u00e9tudier les c\u00e9tac\u00e9s dans la nature en respectant les r\u00e8gles d'\u00e9thique. En les \u00e9tudiant dans leur milieu, les scientifiques peuvent avoir une id\u00e9e r\u00e9aliste des comportements naturels de ces animaux sans leur imposer une vie de souffrance. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980496\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le NPD estime \u00e9galement que toute mesure l\u00e9gislative prise \u00e0 cet \u00e9gard doit \u00eatre mesur\u00e9e et le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> pr\u00e9voit une transition \u00e9quitable pour les deux derniers \u00e9tablissements qui gardent des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s en captivit\u00e9. Il reconna\u00eet des droits acquis concernant les animaux d\u00e9j\u00e0 en captivit\u00e9 et accorde une longue p\u00e9riode de transition \u00e0 la communaut\u00e9 des zoos et des aquariums. Cette mesure n'exige pas la fermeture imm\u00e9diate des \u00e9tablissements qui gardent des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s. N\u00e9anmoins, il va sans dire que le NPD n'appuiera ni le transfert ni la vente de c\u00e9tac\u00e9s par ceux-ci.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980497\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il y a lieu de remercier quelques personnes aujourd'hui. Premi\u00e8rement, il faut remercier les centaines de milliers de Canadiens qui ont press\u00e9 les repr\u00e9sentants \u00e9lus, de la Chambre des communes et du S\u00e9nat, \u00e0 adopter cette mesure l\u00e9gislative, les groupes environnementaux et les organisations de d\u00e9fense des droits des animaux qui ont mobilis\u00e9 la population, ainsi que les communaut\u00e9s autochtones qui ont fait part de leurs pr\u00e9occupations. Tous ces efforts ont men\u00e9 au projet de loi que nous d\u00e9battons aujourd'hui. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980498\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il faut \u00e9galement remercier un certain nombre de personnes ici \u00e0 la Chambre de s'\u00eatre ralli\u00e9es \u00e0 cette cause et d'avoir montr\u00e9 qu'il ne s'agit pas d'une question partisane, mais bien d'une question morale. J'aimerais d'abord remercier mon coll\u00e8gue de <a data-HoCid=\"214590\" href=\"/politicians/nathan-cullen/\" title=\"Nathan Cullen\">Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley</a>. Il a pr\u00e9sent\u00e9 une mesure l\u00e9gislative tr\u00e8s importante sur les emballages z\u00e9ro d\u00e9chet. Nous esp\u00e9rons que le gouvernement ira de l'avant avec cette mesure. Ce dernier a fait aujourd'hui des annonces qui donnent suite \u00e0 la motion que j'ai pr\u00e9sent\u00e9e, la motion M-151, sur l'\u00e9limination graduelle des plastiques \u00e0 usage unique. J'aimerais f\u00e9liciter le gouvernement de ce premier pas et j'esp\u00e8re qu'il sera suivi d'autres mesures, surtout en ce qui concerne l'utilisation industrielle des plastiques et une nouvelle vision de notre utilisation du plastique. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980499\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je remercie mon coll\u00e8gue de <a data-HoCid=\"214590\" href=\"/politicians/nathan-cullen/\" title=\"Nathan Cullen\">Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley</a>, car son projet de loi devait \u00eatre d\u00e9battu aujourd'hui, mais il a laiss\u00e9 sa place pour que nous puissions poursuivre sur ce projet de loi-ci, sachant que c'\u00e9tait la seule fa\u00e7on de le sauver. J'aimerais remercier \u00e9galement Ben Korving, de Terrace. C'est lui qui a aid\u00e9 mon coll\u00e8gue de Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley \u00e0 pr\u00e9senter ce projet de loi sur les emballages z\u00e9ro d\u00e9chet. Cela s'est fait dans le cadre d'un concours qui s'est tenu dans sa circonscription pour donner aux Canadiens la possibilit\u00e9 de faire entendre leurs id\u00e9es \u00e0 la Chambre. Nous n'avons pas oubli\u00e9 l'id\u00e9e de Ben. Nous avons vu \u00e0 ce que le gouvernement entende sa proposition. Je tiens \u00e0 les remercier tous les deux. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980500\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans le m\u00eame esprit, je veux remercier ma coll\u00e8gue et amie de <a data-HoCid=\"214382\" href=\"/politicians/elizabeth-may/\" title=\"Elizabeth May\">Saanich\u2014Gulf Islands</a> du travail consid\u00e9rable qu'elle a accompli dans ce dossier et de la fa\u00e7on dont elle s'est occup\u00e9e de ce projet de loi, en collaborant avec nous pour trouver une voie \u00e0 suivre et en adoptant une approche non partisane visant \u00e0 faire ce qui s'impose pour les c\u00e9tac\u00e9s, qui ne peuvent se d\u00e9fendre eux-m\u00eames. C'est \u00e0 nous de les d\u00e9fendre, et nous avons l'occasion de montrer ce que nous ferons pour les prot\u00e9ger. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980501\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je veux remercier mon coll\u00e8gue et ami de <a data-HoCid=\"214131\" href=\"/politicians/fin-donnelly/\" title=\"Fin Donnelly\">Port Moody\u2014Coquitlam</a>, l'ancien vice-pr\u00e9sident du Comit\u00e9 permanent des p\u00eaches et des oc\u00e9ans, qui a contribu\u00e9 au cheminement du projet de loi au comit\u00e9 et qui y a travaill\u00e9 tr\u00e8s fort. Je tiens aussi \u00e0 remercier mon coll\u00e8gue et ami le pr\u00e9sident du Comit\u00e9 permanent des p\u00eaches et des oc\u00e9ans, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 d'<a data-HoCid=\"214398\" href=\"/politicians/ken-mcdonald/\" title=\"Ken McDonald\">Avalon</a>, qui a fait de l'excellent travail en vue de l'adoption du projet de loi. Je le dis en toute sinc\u00e9rit\u00e9, parce que, sans son aide, en collaboration avec l'ensemble des d\u00e9put\u00e9s, nous n'y serions pas arriv\u00e9s. Je le f\u00e9licite pour son travail dans ce dossier. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980502\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le projet de loi ne se serait pas rendu aussi loin sans les efforts courageux et audacieux du s\u00e9nateur Wilfred Moore. Nous exprimons parfois des r\u00e9serves au sujet du S\u00e9nat, et j'ai certes des doutes actuellement sur la fa\u00e7on dont il aborde un certain nombre de mesures l\u00e9gislatives. Au lieu de remercier le S\u00e9nat, je remercierai donc le s\u00e9nateur Wilfred Moore, aujourd'hui \u00e0 la retraite, qui est un ardent d\u00e9fenseur de la cause sur laquelle porte le projet de loi. C'est lui qui a d\u00e9pos\u00e9 le projet de loi au S\u00e9nat, et il a continu\u00e9 \u00e0 s'y int\u00e9resser m\u00eame apr\u00e8s avoir pris sa retraite. Cela montre son d\u00e9vouement et son engagement, et nous lui devons des applaudissements. Je le remercie de son d\u00e9vouement et de sa d\u00e9termination absolue \u00e0 mener cette mesure l\u00e9gislative \u00e0 terme. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980503\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je remercie \u00e9galement le s\u00e9nateur Murray Sinclair d'avoir pris la responsabilit\u00e9 de parrainer le projet de loi au S\u00e9nat, enrichissant ce dernier gr\u00e2ce \u00e0 sa mine de connaissances autochtones pr\u00e9cieuses et \u00e0 ses liens partout au pays et veillant \u00e0 ce que ces voix soient aussi entendues au S\u00e9nat.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980504\" data-originallang=\"en\">En terminant, j'esp\u00e8re que le projet de loi sera adopt\u00e9 rapidement. Je remercie les centaines de milliers de Canadiens qui ont \u00e9t\u00e9 les porte-parole des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s, qui n'ont pas de voix, et j'ai h\u00e2te que le Canada obtienne une certaine l\u00e9gitimit\u00e9 et cr\u00e9dibilit\u00e9 sur la sc\u00e8ne internationale en ce qui a trait \u00e0 la d\u00e9fense des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s et \u00e0 la fin de la captivit\u00e9 des baleines partout dans le monde. J'esp\u00e8re que ce sera la prochaine \u00e9tape pour le Canada.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/gord-johns-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/gord-johns/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4237/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688695",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:35:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Blaine Calkins (Red Deer\u2014Lacombe, CPC)",
                "fr": "M. Blaine Calkins (Red Deer\u2014Lacombe, PCC)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980505\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that I rise today to speak to Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>, which on its surface seems to be popular and appeals to the emotional drives behind it. Like many Canadians, I have seen cetaceans in captivity at places like SeaWorld and the Vancouver Aquarium; and at places like Marineland, where personally I have never been. I just want to put this in context.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980506\" data-originallang=\"en\">This bill is designed to shut down one business in Canada. There is only one business in Canada actively pursuing or using cetaceans right now for the purpose of entertainment. That is what I want to talk about in this bill.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980507\" data-originallang=\"en\">I am not against the notion that, if Canadians are by and large against having cetaceans in captivity, we can have that conversation. Of course we can have that conversation. It is the approach that this piece of legislation is taking that concerns me. It concerns me because I am a hunter and an angler. I am a guy who grew up on a farm and used animals every day at every stage and walk in my life. I am a guy who represents two areas of my constituency. One area hosts the Ponoka Stampede and one area hosts the Canadian Finals Rodeo in Red Deer.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980508\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I am also a conservationist. I have a zoology degree. I am pretty sure the guys who are laughing at me right now probably do not. I am going to ask that they just sit and think about this for one second. Many scientists appeared before the committee in the Senate and the committee in the House of Commons. They were people with not just bachelor of science degrees in zoology but with Ph.D.s. They were very concerned by the precedent that this piece of legislation would set. I asked the question in the committee whether we could end cetacean captivity in Canada in a simpler way, such as by just ending the permits of this particular business. We could do that by making a small change to the Fisheries Act and to the plant and animal transfer act.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980509\" data-originallang=\"en\">However, this bill would change three things. It would change the Criminal Code of Canada and would do some interesting things. The bill is not about how humans handle animals or about the welfare or treatment of animals in people's care. The bill would, for the first time ever, make it a criminal act in Canada to keep an animal in captivity. That is the first time in our legislation anywhere that having an animal in captivity would be considered an illegal act. It would be illegal in the Criminal Code of Canada to breed animals, and these particular cetaceans\u2014</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980505\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, il est int\u00e9ressant de prendre la parole aujourd'hui \u00e0 propos du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>, qui semble \u00eatre bien vu, en apparence, et qui r\u00e9pond aux \u00e9motions qu'il suscite. Comme beaucoup de Canadiens, je suis all\u00e9 voir des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s en captivit\u00e9 dans des endroits comme SeaWorld et l'aquarium de Vancouver. Il y en a \u00e9galement \u00e0 Marineland, mais je n'y suis personnellement jamais all\u00e9. Je veux simplement mettre les choses en perspective.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980506\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce projet de loi vise \u00e0 faire fermer une entreprise au Canada, \u00e0 savoir la seule entreprise en ce moment au Canada qui garde et utilise des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s \u00e0 des fins r\u00e9cr\u00e9atives. C'est ce dont je veux parler en ce qui concerne ce projet de loi. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980507\" data-originallang=\"en\">Si les Canadiens s'opposent en g\u00e9n\u00e9ral \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s, je ne suis pas contre le fait que nous ayons un d\u00e9bat \u00e0 ce sujet. C'est \u00e9vident. C'est l'approche adopt\u00e9e dans ce projet de loi qui me pr\u00e9occupe. Elle me pr\u00e9occupe parce que je suis \u00e0 la fois un chasseur et un p\u00eacheur. J'ai grandi dans une ferme et j'ai utilis\u00e9 des animaux tous les jours, \u00e0 toutes les \u00e9tapes de ma vie. Ma circonscription accueille \u00e0 la fois le stampede de Ponoka et les finales canadiennes de rod\u00e9o \u00e0 Red Deer. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980508\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je suis aussi un d\u00e9fenseur de l\u2019environnement. J\u2019ai un dipl\u00f4me en zoologie. Je doute que ceux qui sont en train de se moquer de moi en ce moment en aient un, et je les invite \u00e0 se calmer et \u00e0 m\u2019\u00e9couter. Un grand nombre de scientifiques ont comparu devant le comit\u00e9 du S\u00e9nat et devant celui de la Chambre des communes. Ce n\u2019\u00e9tait pas des gens qui avaient un simple baccalaur\u00e9at es sciences en zoologie, ils avaient un doctorat. Et ce qu\u2019ils redoutaient tout particuli\u00e8rement, c\u2019est le pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent que ce projet de loi cr\u00e9ait. J\u2019ai moi-m\u00eame demand\u00e9, en comit\u00e9, s\u2019il \u00e9tait possible de mettre un terme \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s au Canada d\u2019une fa\u00e7on plus simple, par exemple en mettant fin aux permis qui ont \u00e9t\u00e9 octroy\u00e9s \u00e0 cette entreprise particuli\u00e8re. Il suffirait alors d\u2019apporter un amendement mineur \u00e0 la Loi sur les p\u00eaches et \u00e0 la Loi sur la protection d\u2019esp\u00e8ces animales ou v\u00e9g\u00e9tales sauvages.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980509\" data-originallang=\"en\">Quoi qu\u2019il en soit, ce projet de loi modifie trois textes. D\u2019abord, il modifie le Code criminel du Canada, mais de fa\u00e7on assez curieuse. Il ne porte pas sur le traitement des animaux par les humains, mais il p\u00e9nalise, et c\u2019est une premi\u00e8re au Canada, le fait de garder un animal captivit\u00e9. C\u2019est donc la premi\u00e8re fois qu\u2019une loi canadienne rend ill\u00e9gal le fait de garder un animal en captivit\u00e9. Il sera donc ill\u00e9gal, en vertu du Code criminel du Canada, d\u2019\u00e9lever des animaux, en l\u2019occurrence des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s...</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/blaine-calkins-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/blaine-calkins/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4320/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688700",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:35:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "An hon. member",
                "fr": "Une voix"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980510\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Oh, oh!</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980510\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Oh, oh!</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/an-hon-member-1/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "p5980510",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:35:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. Anthony Rota)",
                "fr": "Le vice-pr\u00e9sident adjoint (M. Anthony Rota)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980511\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I will ask the member to stop. I will not mention who the hon. member is. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980512\" data-originallang=\"en\">One of the things we have to look at in this chamber is that, when somebody is speaking, whether we agree with the individual or not, out of respect, we deserve to hear what that person has to say. I just want to remind the hon. members that decorum is something we want to keep. Shouting out or laughing while somebody is reading is not proper decorum.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980513\" data-originallang=\"en\">I will let the hon. member for Red Deer\u2014Lacombe continue and, hopefully, we will continue in a respectful manner.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980514\" data-originallang=\"en\">The hon. member for Red Deer\u2014Lacombe.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980511\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vais demander au d\u00e9put\u00e9 d'arr\u00eater. Je m\u2019abstiendrai de pr\u00e9ciser \u00e0 quel d\u00e9put\u00e9 je m\u2019adresse.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980512\" data-originallang=\"en\">\u00c0 la Chambre, lorsqu\u2019un d\u00e9put\u00e9 a la parole, nous avons l\u2019obligation, que nous soyons d\u2019accord ou pas avec la personne, d\u2019\u00e9couter ce qu\u2019elle a \u00e0 dire, par respect. Le d\u00e9corum est un principe important, qui nous tient tous \u00e0 c\u0153ur. Crier ou rire pendant que quelqu\u2019un parle n\u2019est pas conforme au d\u00e9corum.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980513\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vais laisser le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de Red Deer\u2014Lacombe continuer son discours qui, je l\u2019esp\u00e8re, sera \u00e9cout\u00e9 avec respect.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980514\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de Red Deer\u2014Lacombe a la parole.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/the-assistant-deputy-speaker-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/anthony-rota/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4404/",
            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "10688706",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:35:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Blaine Calkins",
                "fr": "M. Blaine Calkins"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980515\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, all I am asking for is the same respect I granted the speakers from other political parties while I sat and listened to them.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980516\" data-originallang=\"en\">The problem, as I and the people I represent see it, is with the Criminal Code amendments as well as the follow-through and execution of this piece of legislation, which creates a framework and structure whereby anybody can add onto that by simply adding a comma into the legislation and saying that horses can no longer be kept or used for breeding or for purposes of entertainment. I am not saying that is going to happen, but the structure is actually there in the legislation to do it. One has to ask the question why this would need to be done. Why do we need this sledgehammer in legislation to effect the change we are looking for?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980517\" data-originallang=\"en\">We are known by the company we keep. If we look at the organizations that are publicly and vocally expressing support for this bill, we see they call for the end of things like rodeos, fishing, eating animals and raising animals on a farm. These organizations, like Animal Justice and some SPCAs, call for these kinds of things. This is the company that this piece of legislation is keeping.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980518\" data-originallang=\"en\">As I said, I am actually okay with it. I understand the science behind cetaceans and that not all cetaceans do well in captivity, but we also have to be logical. We have to think with our heads too about whether this is the right way to go. I will give an example. Dr. Laura Graham, who has a Ph.D., testified at committee and said there is no actual definition of cruel anywhere in this bill. As I said, it would create new definitions. For the very first time, it would make it illegal and criminalize the breeding of animals. This is something that is a very dangerous precedent for anybody involved in animal husbandry or any of these industries.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980519\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dr. Laura Graham says that the definition of cruel is not anywhere in this bill, and as a scientist, she finds the lack of objective assessment troubling. She has also observed that the people pushing this bill are dismissing the importance of zoos and aquariums in educating the public and eliciting a concern for conservation and saving the planet. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980520\" data-originallang=\"en\">As a matter of fact, she highlighted a very specific case about Vaquita dolphins down in the Gulf of Mexico, of which there are about 10 left; that is all that is left. If we were to use the facilities in Vancouver, Marineland and various SeaWorld installations as something other than entertainment, but rather as a conservation tool, through captive breeding programs we could potentially some day get to the point where we could release a viable population of Vaquita dolphins back into the wild.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980521\" data-originallang=\"en\">I will get back to Dr. Graham in a second. When I was talking to Senator Sinclair at committee, I asked him about this notion of going to a national park, for example. Where I live in Alberta, there is a park called Elk Island National Park, which is not the typical national park that people think of when they go to national parks in their neighbourhoods. Elk Island National Park is a completely fenced-in enclosure. It is a captive facility for the purpose of breeding and population enhancement. People buy a park pass and go in there for the purpose of seeing that wildlife. They may have other purposes, but make no doubt about it, they go there to see the elk and the bison. There has just been a relatively successful, depending on the standards one wants to measure it by, reintroduction of bison into Yukon. There has been reintroduction of bison into Banff National Park, which would not have happened without the captive facility and the breeding program that went with it to re-establish this population. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980522\" data-originallang=\"en\">The whole argument behind getting rid of cetacean captivity is an emotional one. I get it. Look, I have those same convictions when I look at animals in captivity as well. As a guy who goes hunting and fishing and sees all kinds of things in the wild, I get those same heartstring tugs that everybody else gets. I am not some cold and cruel individual. I get the arguments. However, as a conservationist, I also know that we need to make use of every tool available to us in order to help reintroduce wildlife lost through bad practices or mismanagement. Not everybody in the world does things as well as Canada, and we do not do some things all that well either. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980523\" data-originallang=\"en\">However, we have an opportunity to ask ourselves if this bill is actually going to do more harm than good in the long run. It is the same emotional tug that wants us to end the captivity of whales and dolphins that never would have created these facilities in the first place. The City of Vancouver made the choice to end cetacean captivity for the purposes of entertainment without needing this big piece of legislation to do it, yet that facility is still used for rescue and rehabilitation of cetaceans.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980524\" data-originallang=\"en\">It could just as easily use that facility to save a population of belugas, such as the population of belugas in the St. Lawrence Seaway. We know from the experience at Marineland that belugas are actually breeding quite well there. This legislation would be for the express purpose of making that breeding impossible or illegal, actually to the point that someone could go to jail for it. What is that going to do? It is going to split up that family pod at Marineland. It is going to separate the males from the females, and it is going to create the exact same issue that others are arguing captivity is causing in the first place. It is going to create divisiveness and stress in those families.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980525\" data-originallang=\"en\">We know that belugas in captivity are quite successful at breeding. They have a very high success rate. They have a very high birth rate and a very high survival rate. We have populations of belugas right now in the world that are in trouble. If we do not get the environmental conditions right in nature, in the wild, before those populations are actually gone for good, we would have an opportunity to save those genetics. We could actually use the revenue from letting people come and watch them to help the science and research and help that captive breeding program do more good than harm in this particular case.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980526\" data-originallang=\"en\">That is what I am asking my friends in the House to consider. Yes, it is going to be very popular to vote in favour of this bill. We have <em>Free Willy</em> and <em>Blackfish</em> and others movies that create the desire to do what we think is right.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980527\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dr. Laura Graham talked about Dr. Jane Goodall. She had the same feeling about keeping chimpanzees in captivity, and then she changed her mind. As the habitat was encroaching on the natural range of these chimpanzees, as she saw how zoos and other captive facilities were treating these animals and as research and knowledge expanded, she changed her mind. I am simply asking my colleagues to at least consider that before passing this flawed legislation.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980515\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, tout ce que je demande aux d\u00e9put\u00e9s des autres partis, c\u2019est de m\u2019\u00e9couter avec le m\u00eame respect que je l\u2019ai fait quand ils ont pris la parole.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980516\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce qui pose probl\u00e8me, \u00e0 mes yeux et \u00e0 ceux des gens que je repr\u00e9sente, ce sont les modifications au Code criminel ainsi que la mise en \u0153uvre de ce projet de loi, qui cr\u00e9e un cadre et une structure tels que quiconque pourra, simplement en ajoutant une virgule, d\u00e9cr\u00e9ter qu\u2019on ne peut plus \u00e9lever de chevaux ou s\u2019en servir pour des spectacles. Je ne dis pas que c\u2019est ce qui va arriver, mais la structure propos\u00e9e dans le projet de loi rend cela tout \u00e0 fait possible. Il y a de quoi s\u2019interroger. Pourquoi a-t-on besoin d\u2019une telle massue pour changer ce que nous voulons changer ?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980517\" data-originallang=\"en\">Qui se ressemble s\u2019assemble. J\u2019observe que les organisations qui appuient publiquement ce projet de loi r\u00e9clament qu\u2019on interdise les rod\u00e9os, la p\u00eache, la consommation de viande et l\u2019\u00e9levage des animaux dans une ferme. Voil\u00e0 ce que r\u00e9clament ces organisations, et je pense notamment \u00e0 Animal Justice et \u00e0 quelques SPCA. Le projet de loi r\u00e9pond aux int\u00e9r\u00eats de ces organisations-l\u00e0.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980518\" data-originallang=\"en\">Comme je l\u2019ai dit, je ne m\u2019y oppose pas. Les \u00e9tudes scientifiques montrent que la vie en captivit\u00e9 ne convient pas \u00e0 tous les c\u00e9tac\u00e9s. Mais il faut aussi \u00eatre logique, et se demander s\u00e9rieusement si c\u2019est la meilleure fa\u00e7on de proc\u00e9der. Je vais donner un exemple. Mme Laura Graham, qui a un doctorat, a d\u00e9clar\u00e9 devant le comit\u00e9 qu\u2019il n\u2019y avait aucune d\u00e9finition du mot \u00ab cruel \u00bb dans le projet de loi. Comme je l\u2019ai dit, de nouvelles d\u00e9finitions sont adopt\u00e9es, et c\u2019est la premi\u00e8re fois qu\u2019un projet de loi propose de rendre ill\u00e9gal et de p\u00e9naliser l\u2019\u00e9levage des animaux. C\u2019est un pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent tr\u00e8s dangereux pour quiconque exerce ce genre d\u2019occupation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980519\" data-originallang=\"en\">En plus de souligner que le projet de loi ne contient aucune d\u00e9finition du mot \u00ab cruel \u00bb, Mme Laura Graham, qui est une scientifique, s\u2019est inqui\u00e9t\u00e9e de l\u2019absence d\u2019une \u00e9valuation objective. Elle a aussi remarqu\u00e9 que ceux qui d\u00e9fendent le projet de loi sous-estiment le r\u00f4le des zoos et des aquariums, des institutions qui peuvent sensibiliser le public et amener les gens \u00e0 se pr\u00e9occuper du sort de la plan\u00e8te.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980520\" data-originallang=\"en\">Elle a donn\u00e9 l\u2019exemple des marsouins de Californie, dont il reste une dizaine d\u2019individus dans le golfe, pas plus. Si nous cessions d\u2019utiliser les installations de Vancouver, de Marineland et de SeaWorld pour le divertissement et que nous en faisions des outils de conservation, avec des programmes d\u2019\u00e9levage en captivit\u00e9, il se pourrait qu\u2019un jour nous soyons en mesure de rejeter dans l\u2019oc\u00e9an une population viable de ces marsouins.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980521\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je reviendrai sur le t\u00e9moignage de Mme Graham dans un instant. Au comit\u00e9, j\u2019ai eu l\u2019occasion de discuter avec le s\u00e9nateur Sinclair de l\u2019id\u00e9e qu\u2019on se fait d\u2019un parc national, par exemple. L\u00e0 o\u00f9 j\u2019habite en Alberta, il y a le parc national Elk Island, qui n\u2019est pas un parc national typique. Il est compl\u00e8tement cl\u00f4tur\u00e9, et les animaux qui sont gard\u00e9s en captivit\u00e9 servent pour l\u2019\u00e9levage et l'am\u00e9lioration de l'esp\u00e8ce. Les gens peuvent acheter un billet pour observer les animaux sauvages. Ils peuvent aussi y aller \u00e0 d\u2019autres fins, mais s\u2019ils y vont c\u2019est surtout pour voir les wapitis et les bisons. Et justement, on vient de r\u00e9introduire le bison au Yukon, avec un certain succ\u00e8s \u2014 selon les crit\u00e8res qu\u2019on utilise pour mesurer ce succ\u00e8s. On a r\u00e9ussi \u00e0 r\u00e9introduire le bison dans le parc national de Banff, ce qui n\u2019aurait pas \u00e9t\u00e9 possible si on n\u2019en avait pas \u00e9lev\u00e9 en captivit\u00e9 dans le but de repeupler cette esp\u00e8ce.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980522\" data-originallang=\"en\">Toute cette id\u00e9e de mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s, c\u2019est quelque chose de tr\u00e8s \u00e9motif. Je comprends. Moi aussi je ressens la m\u00eame chose lorsque je vois des animaux en captivit\u00e9. J\u2019aime aller \u00e0 la chasse et \u00e0 la p\u00eache, observer les animaux en libert\u00e9, et \u00e0 moi aussi \u00e7a me fait un pincement au c\u0153ur. Je ne suis pas un \u00eatre froid et cruel, et je comprends tout \u00e0 fait ce genre d\u2019argument. Mais je suis aussi un d\u00e9fenseur de la nature, et je sais que nous devons utiliser tous les moyens qui sont \u00e0 notre disposition pour r\u00e9introduire les animaux sauvages qui ont disparu \u00e0 cause de nos mauvaises pratiques ou de notre mauvaise gestion. Les autres pays ne font pas tous aussi bien que le Canada dans ce domaine, mais il y a aussi certaines choses que nous ne faisons pas aussi bien que nous le devrions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980523\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cela dit, nous avons l\u2019occasion, aujourd\u2019hui, de nous demander si ce projet de loi ne va pas faire plus de mal que de bien, \u00e0 la longue. Le pincement au c\u0153ur qui nous pousse \u00e0 vouloir mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins, c\u2019est le m\u00eame que celui qui aurait d\u00fb nous emp\u00eacher de cr\u00e9er ces installations au d\u00e9part. La Ville de Vancouver n\u2019a pas eu besoin de ce projet de loi pour d\u00e9cider de mettre un terme \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des animaux dans un but de divertissement, mais les installations sont encore utilis\u00e9es pour le sauvetage et la r\u00e9habilitation des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980524\" data-originallang=\"en\">La ville pourrait tout aussi bien s\u2019en servir pour reconstituer une population de b\u00e9lugas, comme celle de la Voie maritime du Saint-Laurent. Nous savons qu\u2019\u00e0 Marineland, par exemple, les b\u00e9lugas se reproduisent tr\u00e8s bien. Or, ce projet de loi rendrait cette reproduction impossible ou ill\u00e9gale, et passible d\u2019une peine d\u2019emprisonnement. \u00c0 quoi cela sert-il? Il va falloir s\u00e9parer les troupeaux de b\u00e9lugas \u00e0 Marineland, s\u00e9parer les m\u00e2les des femelles, et on va se retrouver avec exactement le m\u00eame probl\u00e8me que celui que d\u00e9noncent ceux qui s\u2019opposent \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9. Le projet de loi va cr\u00e9er du stress au sein de ces familles d\u2019animaux.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980525\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous savons que les b\u00e9lugas se reproduisent facilement en captivit\u00e9, avec un taux de r\u00e9ussite tr\u00e8s \u00e9lev\u00e9. Ils ont aussi un taux de natalit\u00e9 et un taux de survie tr\u00e8s \u00e9lev\u00e9s. Or, des populations de b\u00e9lugas sont en difficult\u00e9 dans certaines r\u00e9gions du monde. Faute de trouver, dans la nature, des conditions favorables \u00e0 la reproduction de ces populations, avant qu\u2019elles ne disparaissent compl\u00e8tement, nous aurions ainsi la possibilit\u00e9 de sauver cette esp\u00e8ce. Les recettes g\u00e9n\u00e9r\u00e9es par la vente de billets aux visiteurs pourraient servir \u00e0 financer la recherche et la mise en \u0153uvre d\u2019un programme d\u2019\u00e9levage en captivit\u00e9, ce qui, dans le cas des b\u00e9lugas, ferait beaucoup plus de bien que de mal.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980526\" data-originallang=\"en\">Voil\u00e0 ce que je demande \u00e0 mes coll\u00e8gues ici pr\u00e9sents de prendre en consid\u00e9ration. Certes, c\u2019est tr\u00e8s populaire de voter pour ce projet de loi. Des films comme <em>Mon ami Willy</em> et <em>Blackfish: l'orque tueuse </em> nous poussent \u00e0 vouloir faire ce que nous pensons \u00eatre bien.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980527\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pendant son t\u00e9moignage, Laura Graham a parl\u00e9 de Jane Goodall. Elle ressentait la m\u00eame chose qu'elle \u00e0 propos des chimpanz\u00e9s en captivit\u00e9, mais ensuite, elle a chang\u00e9 d\u2019avis. Au fur et \u00e0 mesure que les maisons ont empi\u00e9t\u00e9 sur l\u2019habitat naturel des chimpanz\u00e9s et que les \u00e9tudes scientifiques se sont approfondies, elle a chang\u00e9 d\u2019avis parce qu\u2019elle a constat\u00e9 que ces animaux \u00e9taient bien trait\u00e9s dans les zoos et les autres installations similaires. J\u2019invite donc simplement mes coll\u00e8gues \u00e0 prendre cela en consid\u00e9ration avant d\u2019adopter ce projet de loi insatisfaisant.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/blaine-calkins-2/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/blaine-calkins/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4320/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688707",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:45:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich\u2014Gulf Islands, GP)",
                "fr": "Mme Elizabeth May (Saanich\u2014Gulf Islands, PV)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980528\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Mr. Speaker, it is a great honour to speak today during the final hour of debate after several years of work on a bill that is important to the world's whales.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980529\" data-originallang=\"en\">I am particularly honoured to rise this morning because we are at the point that most members in this place appear ready to see this legislation pass. The legislation was first brought forward in the last few days of the Senate sitting of 2015. It has been, to put it mildly, a long haul.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980530\" data-originallang=\"en\">The hon. member just raised concerns, and I think all concerns by my colleagues in this place are legitimate. However, it is important for anyone watching this debate to recognize that the bill is based on science.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980531\" data-originallang=\"en\">Many scientists testified as to why it is critical that we stop keeping cetaceans in captivity. We understand why. They are obviously not akin to livestock, for instance. Cetaceans require the ocean. They require the space. They require acoustic communication over long distances. The scientists who testified before the committee who made the case so strongly made it based on science.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980532\" data-originallang=\"en\">Yes, Canadians care. Yes, the school children who wrote to us in the thousands were not moved by the science; they were moved because they see movies and nature films and they understand that whales, dolphins and porpoises are of a different character than other animals.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980533\" data-originallang=\"en\">I would reassure my friend that we could not just substitute the name for another species. Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> is firmly tied to the Fisheries Act. I do not think we would find any horses in the wild in the ocean. We have tied it down legislatively in such a way that others should not worry that there will be a creeping effect.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980534\" data-originallang=\"en\">In the time remaining, I want to say how grateful I am for the non-partisan spirit. It has been my entire honour to be the sponsor of this legislation in the House. I am enormously grateful to my colleagues.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980535\" data-originallang=\"en\">I mentioned the scientists. Let me thank Dr. Visser, who testified at committee, coming in by Skype from New Zealand in the days right after the Christchurch killings. It was an emotional time for everyone. I would also like to thank Dr. Naomi Rose, and from Dalhousie University, Dr. Hal Whitehead. Phil Demers, a former whale trainer at Marineland, offered excellent real-life testimony as to the cruelty of keeping whales in captivity.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980536\" data-originallang=\"en\">Certainly Senator Wilfred Moore and Senator Murray Sinclair have done an enormous amount to help. So too has the government representative in the Senate, Senator Harder.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980537\" data-originallang=\"en\">I also want to thank the <a data-HoCid=\"241630\" href=\"/politicians/jonathan-wilkinson/\" title=\"Jonathan Wilkinson\">Minister of Fisheries</a> and his predecessor for taking companion elements in Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> and embedding them in Bill <a data-HoCid=\"9630814\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-68/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence\">C-68</a>. Bill C-68, the reform of the Fisheries Act, remains before the Senate.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980538\" data-originallang=\"en\">I want to take a moment to urge all colleagues in the other place to move Bill <a data-HoCid=\"9630814\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-68/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence\">C-68</a> through. I also urge everyone here, if there are amendments, to move Bill C-68 through, because the Fisheries Act is critically important on many scores, as well as being companion legislation to Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980539\" data-originallang=\"en\">Again, in a non-partisan spirit, I want to thank the hon. member for <a data-HoCid=\"214131\" href=\"/politicians/fin-donnelly/\" title=\"Fin Donnelly\">Port Moody\u2014Coquitlam</a>, who we will miss in this place, and the hon. member for <a data-HoCid=\"214590\" href=\"/politicians/nathan-cullen/\" title=\"Nathan Cullen\">Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley</a>. I also want to mention his constituent, Ben Korving, who put forward the legislation regarding zero-waste packaging. I pledge, as leader of the Green Party, to take on Ben Korving's motion and make sure that it does not die in this place, because those members made a sacrifice to allow Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> to pass before we rise at the end of June.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980540\" data-originallang=\"en\">I also want to thank the hon. member for <a data-HoCid=\"214185\" href=\"/politicians/nathaniel-erskine-smith/\" title=\"Nathaniel Erskine-Smith\">Beaches\u2014East York</a>, a Liberal, and my friend from <a data-HoCid=\"214489\" href=\"/politicians/gord-johns/\" title=\"Gord Johns\">Courtenay\u2014Alberni</a>, who was gracious in his praise earlier.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980541\" data-originallang=\"en\">Everyone pulled together on this. The member for <a data-HoCid=\"213998\" href=\"/politicians/sean-casey/\" title=\"Sean Casey\">Charlottetown</a>, the parliamentary secretary, helped enormously.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980542\" data-originallang=\"fr\">I would once again like to thank my Bloc Qu\u00e9b\u00e9cois colleague, the member for <a data-HoCid=\"214054\" href=\"/politicians/monique-pauze/\" title=\"Monique Pauz\u00e9\">Repentigny</a>.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980543\" data-originallang=\"en\">I know that there were Conservative colleagues who did what they could.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980544\" data-originallang=\"en\">I cannot tell members how important this legislation is. I will close with a few words that we have not heard in this place before. They are from the book of Job. They are found in chapter 41, verse 1.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980545\" data-originallang=\"en\"> <span class=\"verse\"> Behold, Behemoth,<br> which I made as I made you;...<br> <br> He is the first of the works of God;...<br> <br> Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook<br> or press down his tongue with a cord?<br> Can you put a rope in his nose<br> or pierce his jaw with a hook?...<br> Will traders bargain over him?<br> Will they divide him up among the merchants?...<br> <br> On earth there is not his like,...<br> He sees everything that is high;<br> he is king over all the sons of pride.<br> </span> </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980546\" data-originallang=\"en\">To everyone in this place, let us think for a moment. We behold Leviathan. He belongs in the wild. He will never again be placed in a swimming pool in this country.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980528\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, j'ai le grand honneur de prendre la parole, aujourd\u2019hui \u00e0 la derni\u00e8re heure de d\u00e9bat, apr\u00e8s quelques ann\u00e9es de travail sur ce projet de loi important pour les baleines du monde.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980529\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Je me r\u00e9jouis d\u2019avoir l\u2019occasion ce matin de prendre la parole, car nous en sommes au point o\u00f9 la plupart des d\u00e9put\u00e9s semblent pr\u00eats \u00e0 faire adopter ce projet de loi. La mesure l\u00e9gislative a \u00e9t\u00e9 pr\u00e9sent\u00e9e au S\u00e9nat quelques jours avant la fin de la session de 2015. Ce fut un travail de longue haleine, c\u2019est le moins que l\u2019on puisse dire. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980530\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le d\u00e9put\u00e9 vient de nous faire part de ses pr\u00e9occupations, et je pense que toutes les pr\u00e9occupations de mes coll\u00e8gues sont l\u00e9gitimes. Cependant, il est important que ceux qui suivent nos d\u00e9lib\u00e9rations sachent que ce projet de loi est fond\u00e9 sur des donn\u00e9es scientifiques.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980531\" data-originallang=\"en\">De nombreux scientifiques ont t\u00e9moign\u00e9 pour dire qu\u2019il \u00e9tait urgent de mettre un terme \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des c\u00e9tac\u00e9s. Nous savons pourquoi. Par exemple, les c\u00e9tac\u00e9s ne sont pas comme le b\u00e9tail. Ils ont besoin de l\u2019oc\u00e9an. Ils ont besoin d\u2019espace. Ils doivent pouvoir communiquer en \u00e9mettant des sons sur de longues distances. Les scientifiques qui ont comparu devant le comit\u00e9 l\u2019ont clairement d\u00e9montr\u00e9 avec des donn\u00e9es probantes.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980532\" data-originallang=\"en\">Certes, cela pr\u00e9occupe les Canadiens. Certes, les milliers d\u2019\u00e9coliers qui nous ont \u00e9crit ont \u00e9t\u00e9 influenc\u00e9s non pas par la science, mais par les films et les documentaires qui montrent que les baleines, les dauphins et les marsouins ne sont pas des animaux comme les autres.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980533\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je tiens \u00e0 rassurer mon coll\u00e8gue: nous ne pourrons absolument pas remplacer le nom d\u2019une esp\u00e8ce par une autre. Le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> est solidement rattach\u00e9 \u00e0 la Loi sur les p\u00eaches. Je ne pense pas qu\u2019on puisse trouver des chevaux en libert\u00e9 dans l\u2019oc\u00e9an. Il est tellement bien rattach\u00e9 \u00e0 cette loi qu\u2019on ne devrait pas en redouter des effets pernicieux.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980534\" data-originallang=\"en\">Puisqu\u2019il me reste un peu de temps, j\u2019aimerais saluer l\u2019esprit non partisan qui a anim\u00e9 nos discussions. C\u2019est moi qui ai eu l\u2019honneur de parrainer le projet de loi \u00e0 la Chambre, et je suis tr\u00e8s reconnaissante \u00e0 mes coll\u00e8gues de l\u2019avoir examin\u00e9 dans un esprit non partisan.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980535\" data-originallang=\"en\">J\u2019ai parl\u00e9 des scientifiques. Je tiens \u00e0 remercier Mme Visser, qui a t\u00e9moign\u00e9 au comit\u00e9 par vid\u00e9oconf\u00e9rence Skype depuis la Nouvelle-Z\u00e9lande dans les jours qui ont suivi la tuerie de Christchurch. C'\u00e9tait une p\u00e9riode charg\u00e9e d'\u00e9motions pour tout le monde. Je remercie \u00e9galement Mme Naomi Rose, ainsi que M. Hal Whitehead, de l\u2019Universit\u00e9 Dalhousie. Phil Demers, ancien dompteur de baleines \u00e0 Marineland, a livr\u00e9 un t\u00e9moignage tr\u00e8s concret sur la cruaut\u00e9 des conditions de vie des baleines en captivit\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980536\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je m\u2019en voudrais de ne pas mentionner le s\u00e9nateur Wilfred Moore et le s\u00e9nateur Murray Sinclair, qui nous ont apport\u00e9 une contribution pr\u00e9cieuse, tout comme le repr\u00e9sentant du gouvernement au S\u00e9nat, le s\u00e9nateur Harder.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980537\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je tiens aussi \u00e0 remercier le <a data-HoCid=\"241630\" href=\"/politicians/jonathan-wilkinson/\" title=\"Jonathan Wilkinson\">ministre des P\u00eaches</a> et son pr\u00e9d\u00e9cesseur d'avoir int\u00e9gr\u00e9 des \u00e9l\u00e9ments connexes du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> dans le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"9630814\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-68/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence\">C-68</a>, qui vise \u00e0 r\u00e9former la Loi sur les p\u00eaches et qui est actuellement \u00e0 l'\u00e9tude au S\u00e9nat.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980538\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'aimerais prendre un instant pour exhorter tous nos coll\u00e8gues \u00e0 l'autre endroit \u00e0 adopter le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"9630814\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-68/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence\">C-68</a>. Si le S\u00e9nat propose des amendements, j'exhorte aussi tous les d\u00e9put\u00e9s \u00e0 collaborer pour que soit adopt\u00e9 le projet de loi C-68, car la Loi sur les p\u00eaches rev\u00eat une importance cruciale \u00e0 bien des \u00e9gards, de m\u00eame que le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a>, qui lui sert de compl\u00e9ment.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980539\" data-originallang=\"en\">De nouveau, dans un esprit non partisan, je tiens \u00e0 remercier le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"214131\" href=\"/politicians/fin-donnelly/\" title=\"Fin Donnelly\">Port Moody\u2014Coquitlam</a>, qui nous manquera \u00e0 la Chambre, ainsi que le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"214590\" href=\"/politicians/nathan-cullen/\" title=\"Nathan Cullen\">Skeena\u2014Bulkley Valley</a>. Je tiens \u00e0 souligner le travail d'un de ses concitoyens, Ben Korving, qui a eu l'id\u00e9e du projet de loi concernant les emballages z\u00e9ro d\u00e9chet. En tant que chef du Parti vert, je m'engage \u00e0 pr\u00e9senter la motion de Ben Korving afin qu'elle ne meure pas au Feuilleton, car ces d\u00e9put\u00e9s ont fait preuve d'abn\u00e9gation pour que le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8063284\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-203/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)\">S-203</a> puisse \u00eatre adopt\u00e9 avant l'ajournement pr\u00e9vu \u00e0 la fin du mois de juin.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980540\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je tiens \u00e9galement \u00e0 remercier le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"214185\" href=\"/politicians/nathaniel-erskine-smith/\" title=\"Nathaniel Erskine-Smith\">Beaches\u2014East York</a>, un lib\u00e9ral, et le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"214489\" href=\"/politicians/gord-johns/\" title=\"Gord Johns\">Courtenay\u2014Alberni</a> pour ses bons mots \u00e0 mon endroit.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980541\" data-originallang=\"en\">Tout le monde a mis la main \u00e0 la p\u00e2te dans ce dossier. Le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"242061\" href=\"/politicians/sean-casey/\" title=\"Sean Casey\">Charlottetown</a>, qui est secr\u00e9taire parlementaire du ministre des P\u00eaches, a apport\u00e9 une \u00e9norme contribution.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980542\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Je remercie encore une fois mon amie du Bloc qu\u00e9b\u00e9cois, la d\u00e9put\u00e9e de <a data-HoCid=\"214054\" href=\"/politicians/monique-pauze/\" title=\"Monique Pauz\u00e9\">Repentigny</a>.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980543\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je sais que certains de mes coll\u00e8gues conservateurs ont fait ce qu'ils ont pu.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980544\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je ne saurais dire \u00e0 mes coll\u00e8gues \u00e0 quel point ce projet de loi est important. Je vais conclure avec quelques mots que nous n'avons jamais entendus dans cette enceinte. C'est un extrait du livre de Job, au chapitre 41, verset 1:</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980545\" data-originallang=\"en\"> <span class=\"verse\"> Mais regarde donc B\u00e9h\u00e9moth,<br> Ma cr\u00e9ature, tout comme toi [...]<br> <br> C'est lui la premi\u00e8re des \u0153uvres de Dieu [...]<br> <br> Et L\u00e9viathan, le p\u00eaches-tu \u00e0 l'hame\u00e7on,<br> Avec une corde comprimes-tu sa langue?<br> Fais-tu passer un jonc dans ses naseaux,<br> Avec un croc perces-tu sa m\u00e2choire? [...]<br> Sera-t-il mis en vente par des associ\u00e9s,<br> Puis d\u00e9bit\u00e9 entre marchands? [...]<br> <br> Sur terre, il n'a point son pareil, [...]<br> Il regarde en face les plus hautains,<br> Il est roi sur tous les fils de l'orgueil.<br> </span> </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980546\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'aimerais que toutes les personnes ici pr\u00e9sentes r\u00e9fl\u00e9chissent un instant. Admirons L\u00e9viathan. Sa place est dans la nature. On ne le mettra plus jamais dans une piscine dans ce pays.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/elizabeth-may-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/elizabeth-may/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4108/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688715",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:50:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. Anthony Rota)",
                "fr": "Le vice-pr\u00e9sident adjoint (M. Anthony Rota)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980547\" data-originallang=\"en\">The question is as follows. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980547\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Le vote porte sur la motion. Pla\u00eet-il \u00e0 la Chambre d'adopter la motion? </p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/the-assistant-deputy-speaker-2/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/anthony-rota/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4404/",
            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "10688730",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:50:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Some hon. members",
                "fr": "Des voix"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980548\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Agreed.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980548\" data-originallang=\"en\"> D'accord.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/some-hon-members-1/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "p5980548",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:50:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. Anthony Rota)",
                "fr": "Le vice-pr\u00e9sident adjoint (M. Anthony Rota)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p class=\"procedural\" data-HoCid=\"2\">(Motion agreed to, bill read the third time and passed)</p>",
                "fr": "<p class=\"procedural\" data-HoCid=\"2\">(La motion est adopt\u00e9e et le projet de loi, lu pour la troisi\u00e8me fois, est adopt\u00e9.)</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/the-assistant-deputy-speaker-3/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/anthony-rota/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4404/",
            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "p2",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 11:50:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. Anthony Rota)",
                "fr": "Le vice-pr\u00e9sident adjoint (M. Anthony Rota)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980549\" data-originallang=\"en\">The House will now suspend until 12 p.m.</p>\n<p class=\"procedural\" data-HoCid=\"3\">(The sitting of the House was suspended at 11:52 a.m.)</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980549\" data-originallang=\"en\"> La s\u00e9ance est suspendue jusqu'\u00e0 midi.</p>\n<p class=\"procedural\" data-HoCid=\"3\"> (La s\u00e9ance est suspendue \u00e0 11 h 52.) </p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/the-assistant-deputy-speaker-4/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/anthony-rota/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4404/",
            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "10688732",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "h3": {
                "en": "Suspension of Sitting",
                "fr": "Suspension de la s\u00e9ance"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 12:00:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p class=\"procedural\" data-HoCid=\"4\">(The House resumed at 12 p.m.)</p>",
                "fr": "<p class=\"procedural\" data-HoCid=\"4\">(La s\u00e9ance reprend \u00e0 midi.)</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/procedural-2/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "p4",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Private Members' Business",
                "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act",
                "fr": "Loi visant \u00e0 mettre fin \u00e0 la captivit\u00e9 des baleines et des dauphins"
            },
            "h3": {
                "en": "Sitting Resumed",
                "fr": "Reprise de la s\u00e9ance"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 12:00:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster\u2014Burnaby, NDP)",
                "fr": "M. Peter Julian (New Westminster\u2014Burnaby, NPD)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p class=\"procedural\" data-HoCid=\"5980550\"> moved:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980551\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> That, given telecommunication services in Canada cost more than most other countries in the world, leaving far too many Canadians with unaffordable, inadequate or no service at all, the House call on the government to implement measures that will make those services more affordable, including: </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980552\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> (a) a price cap to ensure every Canadian saves money on their bill; </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980553\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> (b) abolishing data caps for broadband Internet and mandating that companies create unlimited data plans at affordable rates for wireless services; </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980554\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> (c) putting an end to egregious and outrageous sales and services practices through a Telecom Consumers\u2019 Bill of Rights; </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980555\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> (d) revisiting the structure of the spectrum auction to make sure everyday Canadians benefit most from the revenue, rather than repeating the failures of previous Liberal and Conservative governments, which squandered almost $20 billion from previous auctions; and </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980556\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> (e) directing the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) to reverse their rural and remote broadband implementation policy, which condemns these areas, including many Indigenous communities, to years of substandard broadband and wireless services. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980557\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Mr. Speaker, before I begin my speech, I want to let you know that I will be sharing my time with my colleague, the fabulous member for <a data-HoCid=\"214168\" href=\"/politicians/karine-trudel/\" title=\"Karine Trudel\">Jonqui\u00e8re</a>.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980558\" data-originallang=\"en\">I want to praise the work of the member of Parliament for <a data-HoCid=\"214230\" href=\"/politicians/brian-masse/\" title=\"Brian Masse\">Windsor West</a>. He has been dogged and determined in bringing fairness to the telecom charges people are paying across the country. He does an extraordinary job. He will be speaking in the House a bit later on today. Right now, he is in a press conference, ensuring that journalists across the length and breadth of the country are familiar with the NDP's five-point plan to not only save Canadians money, but also expand telecom coverage right across the country so broadband and cellular services are made available in remote areas where they are not available now.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980559\" data-originallang=\"en\">What does the five-point NDP plan mean and what does it mean if Parliament adopts it? It could mean a savings of up to $600 a year for a Canadian. I want to go into that in some detail, because Canadians are struggling to make ends meet.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980560\" data-originallang=\"en\">As members are aware, half of Canadians are $200 away from insolvency in any one month. Over the past few decades, we have seen more inequality and a greater struggle for average Canadian families to make ends meet. It should be a source of shame for us that the average Canadian family now has the worst family debt load in any country in the industrialized world. That means Canadians have been struggling to make ends meet and for decades, the federal government has done very little to assist them with that. We often find that lobbyists, such as the big Internet companies from the United States, which do not even pay taxes in Canada, have had an influence. The lobbyists for the telecom companies have also made a difference. Therefore, it is common sense, not rocket science, to simply have the federal government take the measures needed to make a difference in the lives of Canadians.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980561\" data-originallang=\"en\">As we know, in the developed world, Canadians pay some of the highest prices for mobile, wireless and broadband services. It costs them a lot more per month than people who live in other countries. That means price gouging is taking place. The federal government has basically allowed big telecom to gouge Canadians with impunity. That has to end. The NDP five-point plan would put measures in place to ensure that would not happen anymore.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980562\" data-originallang=\"en\">Let us take one example. This has come out of many studies, which have shown consistently that the average price for Canadians who have a two gigabyte plan per month for data, and I am among them, as I am sure many Canadians are, is now somewhere in the neighbourhood of $75 to $76 a month. How does that compare with plans in other parts of the world? Obviously if Canadians are paying too much, then putting measures in place to ensure Canadians are not being gouged makes a great deal of sense.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980563\" data-originallang=\"en\">Similar studies show the difference between what Canadians pay and what people in other parts of the industrialized world pay. If we were in Toronto, a monthly plan for two gigabytes of data would cost about $75.50 a month. What is the price for a two gigabyte plan in Paris? The same two gigabyte plan would cost $30.91. That is a substantive difference. The difference can basically be summed up as the big telecom companies in Canada are allowed to gouge Canadians with impunity. In other parts of the world, governments have taken action to restrict the amount of money that can be gouged from the consumer.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980564\" data-originallang=\"en\">In London, the same gigabyte plan, which is $30 in Paris and $75 in Canada, is $26.56 on average, which is $50 less per month than in Canada. In Rome, for the same plan, two gigabytes per month, one would pay $24.70. Those are European examples.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980565\" data-originallang=\"en\">We can look at a country that is similar to our country, such as Australia, which is a vast land and differing infrastructure. Many parts of Australia are remote, as are many parts of Canada. Australia has put in place measures to ensure it had a cellphone and Internet broadband infrastructure. Australia has found that those same prices are substantially less than what they are in Canada. I mentioned $24.70 and that is the price per month in Australia. Therefore, it is $50 less a month for a two-gigabyte plan in Australia, which faces the same infrastructure challenges, as Canada does, with its vast expanse. It has a better degree of remote broadband and cellphone access. It has put in place a better infrastructure, and the cost per month for the average Australian is $50 a month less than in Canada.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980566\" data-originallang=\"en\">I talked about Italy, and I misspoke a moment ago. In Rome, if one is looking at broadband and wireless access, it would cost $21.11, which is a profound difference to Canada. Canadians are paying about $50 more for a two-gigabyte plan, and this is just one of many examples.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980567\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Consumers living in France, the United Kingdom, Italy or in the vast expanse of Australia are paying $50 a month less for a two-gigabyte plan than we are in Canada. There is no other way to explain this except rampant price gouging and governments refusing to protect consumers. That ends today with the NDP five-point plan. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980568\" data-originallang=\"en\">The motion was read earlier, but it is important to reiterate what the NDP five-point plan is proposing. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980569\" data-originallang=\"en\">First, we would put a price cap to ensure every Canadian saves money on their bill. This is a best practice that other countries have put in place and it has saved money for their consumers. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980570\" data-originallang=\"en\">Second, we would abolish data caps for broadband Internet and mandate that companies create unlimited data plans at affordable rates for wireless services. This abolishing of the data cap has also made a substantive difference for consumers in other countries who are paying substantially less, $600 a year less. What could the Canadian population, the middle-class, working-class families, do with that $600 more they are paying compared to the Italian, French, English or Australian consumers. There is simply no way to legitimize or justify the price gouging that is taking place. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980571\" data-originallang=\"en\">Third, we would put an end to egregious and outrageous sales and services practices through a telecom consumers\u2019 bill of rights. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980572\" data-originallang=\"en\">Fourth, we would revisit the structure of the spectrum auction to make sure everyday Canadians benefit.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980573\" data-originallang=\"en\">Fifth, we would redirect the CRTC to stop its interpretation that is guaranteeing substandard broadband and wireless services for rural and remote communities.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980574\" data-originallang=\"en\">This five-point plan makes sense to everybody but the big telecom lobbyists. It makes sense for Parliament to adopt it today. The result would be a $600 saving per year for the average Canadian family. It would make a difference.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980575\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Therefore, I urge all members to vote for the NDP five-point plan to reduce the cost of telecom and to expand services in the country.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980550\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> propose:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980551\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> Que, compte tenu que les services de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications au Canada co\u00fbtent plus cher que dans la plupart des autres pays du monde, ce qui laisse ainsi beaucoup trop de Canadiens et Canadiennes avec un service inabordable, inad\u00e9quat ou inexistant, la Chambre demande au gouvernement de prendre des mesures pour rendre ces services plus abordables, y comprs: </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980552\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> a) instaurer un plafonnement des prix pour s'assurer que chaque Canadien et Canadienne \u00e9conomise de l'argent sur sa facture; </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980553\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> b) abolir les plafonds de donn\u00e9es pour l'Internet \u00e0 large bande et obliger les entreprises de cr\u00e9er des forfaits de donn\u00e9es illimit\u00e9s \u00e0 des tarifs abordables pour les services sans fil; </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980554\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> c) \u00e9liminer les pratiques de vente et de services scandaleuses et inacceptables au moyen d'une d\u00e9claration des droits des consommateurs de services de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications; </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980555\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> d) r\u00e9viser la structure de la vente aux ench\u00e8res du spectre pour s'assurer que les Canadiens et Canadiennes ordinaires profitent au maximum des revenus, plut\u00f4t que de r\u00e9p\u00e9ter les \u00e9checs des gouvernements lib\u00e9raux et conservateurs pr\u00e9c\u00e9dents, qui ont gaspill\u00e9 pr\u00e8s de 20 milliards de dollars par rapport aux ventes aux ench\u00e8res pr\u00e9c\u00e9dentes; </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980556\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> e) demander au Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des t\u00e9l\u00e9communications canadiennes (CRTC) d\u2019annuler sa politique de mise en oeuvre des services \u00e0 large bande dans les r\u00e9gions rurales et \u00e9loign\u00e9es, qui condamne ces r\u00e9gions, y compris de nombreuses collectivit\u00e9s autochtones, \u00e0 des ann\u00e9es de services \u00e0 large bande et sans fil inf\u00e9rieurs aux normes. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5980557\" data-originallang=\"fr\">\u2014 Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, avant de commencer mon discours, j'aimerais dire que je partagerai mon temps de parole avec ma coll\u00e8gue la fabuleuse d\u00e9put\u00e9e de <a data-HoCid=\"214168\" href=\"/politicians/karine-trudel/\" title=\"Karine Trudel\">Jonqui\u00e8re</a>.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980558\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je tiens \u00e0 f\u00e9liciter le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"214230\" href=\"/politicians/brian-masse/\" title=\"Brian Masse\">Windsor-Ouest</a> de son travail. Il a fait preuve de t\u00e9nacit\u00e9 et de d\u00e9termination pour rendre les frais de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications plus \u00e9quitables partout au pays. Il accomplit un travail extraordinaire. Il prendra la parole \u00e0 la Chambre un peu plus tard aujourd'hui. Il donne actuellement une conf\u00e9rence de presse pour veiller \u00e0 ce que les journalistes des quatre coins du pays soient au courant du plan en cinq points du NPD visant \u00e0 non seulement faire \u00e9pargner de l'argent aux Canadiens, mais aussi \u00e0 \u00e9tendre la couverture offerte par les fournisseurs de services de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications partout au pays afin de rendre accessibles les services d'Internet \u00e0 large bande et de t\u00e9l\u00e9phonie mobile dans les r\u00e9gions \u00e9loign\u00e9es, l\u00e0 o\u00f9 ils ne sont pas offerts \u00e0 l'heure actuelle.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980559\" data-originallang=\"en\">En quoi consiste le plan en cinq points du NPD et qu'arrivera-t-il si le Parlement l'adopte? Ce plan pourrait faire \u00e9pargner jusqu'\u00e0 600 $ par ann\u00e9e au Canadien moyen. Je tiens \u00e0 exposer ce plan en d\u00e9tail parce que les Canadiens tirent le diable par la queue.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980560\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les d\u00e9put\u00e9s ne sont pas sans savoir que, chaque mois, la moiti\u00e9 des Canadiens sont \u00e0 200 $ de l\u2019insolvabilit\u00e9. Au cours des derni\u00e8res d\u00e9cennies, les in\u00e9galit\u00e9s se sont creus\u00e9es, et il est devenu de plus en plus difficile pour les familles canadiennes moyennes de joindre les deux bouts. Nous devrions avoir honte que la famille canadienne moyenne soit la plus endett\u00e9e de tous les pays industrialis\u00e9s. Cela veut dire que les Canadiens ont du mal \u00e0 joindre les deux bouts et que, depuis des d\u00e9cennies, le gouvernement f\u00e9d\u00e9ral n\u2019a pas fait grand-chose pour leur venir en aide. Nous constatons trop souvent que les lobbyistes, comme les g\u00e9ants du Web am\u00e9ricains, qui ne paient m\u00eame pas d\u2019imp\u00f4t Canada, ont beaucoup d\u2019influence. Les lobbyistes des entreprises de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications jouent aussi un r\u00f4le important. C\u2019est donc une question de simple bon sens, et pas besoin d'\u00eatre un g\u00e9nie pour le comprendre: le gouvernement f\u00e9d\u00e9ral doit prendre les mesures qui s\u2019imposent pour am\u00e9liorer la vie des Canadiens.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980561\" data-originallang=\"en\">De tous les pays du monde industrialis\u00e9, les Canadiens sont parmi ceux qui paient les prix les plus \u00e9lev\u00e9s pour le t\u00e9l\u00e9phone mobile, le t\u00e9l\u00e9phone sans fil et les services \u00e0 large bande. Ils paient beaucoup plus par mois que les consommateurs d'autres pays. Cela signifie que les prix sont abusifs. Le gouvernement f\u00e9d\u00e9ral a pratiquement autoris\u00e9 les grandes entreprises de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications \u00e0 arnaquer les Canadiens en toute impunit\u00e9. Cela ne peut plus durer. Le plan en cinq points du NPD permet de prendre les mesures pour mettre un terme \u00e0 cela.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980562\" data-originallang=\"en\">Prenons un exemple. Selon de nombreuses \u00e9tudes, le prix que paient les Canadiens pour un forfait mensuel de 2 gigaoctets de donn\u00e9es, et j\u2019en fais partie, comme beaucoup d\u2019autres sans doute, se situe autour de 75 $ ou 76 $ par mois. Combien co\u00fbte un tel forfait dans d'autres pays ? Il est \u00e9vident que, si les Canadiens paient des prix abusifs, il faut prendre des mesures pour s\u2019assurer qu\u2019ils ne se font plus arnaquer de cette fa\u00e7on. Cela me para\u00eet tomber sous le sens.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980563\" data-originallang=\"en\">Des \u00e9tudes similaires indiquent ce que les Canadiens paient en comparaison de ce que paient les habitants d\u2019autres pays industrialis\u00e9s. \u00c0 Toronto, un forfait mensuel de 2 gigaoctets de donn\u00e9es co\u00fbte environ 75,50 $ par mois. Combien co\u00fbte le m\u00eame forfait \u00e0 Paris? Ce m\u00eame plan co\u00fbte 30,91 $. C'est une \u00e9norme diff\u00e9rence qui s\u2019explique essentiellement par le fait que les grandes entreprises canadiennes de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications sont autoris\u00e9es \u00e0 arnaquer les Canadiens en toute impunit\u00e9. Dans d\u2019autres pays du monde, les gouvernements ont pris les mesures n\u00e9cessaires pour limiter les sommes qui peuvent \u00eatre extorqu\u00e9es aux consommateurs.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980564\" data-originallang=\"en\">Un forfait qui co\u00fbte 30 $ \u00e0 Paris et 75 $ au Canada co\u00fbte en moyenne 26,56 $ \u00e0 Londres. C'est 50 $ de moins par mois qu'au Canada. \u00c0 Rome, pour le m\u00eame forfait \u2014 deux gigaoctets par mois \u2014 les gens paient 24,70 $. Ce sont l\u00e0 des exemples en Europe.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980565\" data-originallang=\"en\">Prenons un pays semblable au n\u00f4tre, comme l'Australie, avec son vaste territoire, mais une infrastructure diff\u00e9rente. En Australie, comme au Canada, il y a de nombreuses r\u00e9gions isol\u00e9es. L'Australie a pris les moyens n\u00e9cessaires pour se doter d'une infrastructure Internet \u00e0 large bande et d'une infrastructure cellulaire. L'Australie a constat\u00e9 que ses prix sont consid\u00e9rablement inf\u00e9rieurs \u00e0 ceux pratiqu\u00e9s au Canada. J'ai parl\u00e9 de 24,70 $. C'est le prix mensuel en Australie. C'est donc 50 $ de moins par mois pour un forfait de deux gigaoctets en Australie, un pays o\u00f9 existent les m\u00eames obstacles qu'au Canada pour les infrastructures en raison de l'immensit\u00e9 de son territoire. Le service cellulaire et \u00e0 large bande en r\u00e9gion \u00e9loign\u00e9e y est meilleur. Le pays a mis en place une meilleure infrastructure et le prix mensuel pour l'Australien moyen est de 50 $ de moins qu'au Canada.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980566\" data-originallang=\"en\">J\u2019ai parl\u00e9 de l\u2019Italie, et je me suis tromp\u00e9. \u00c0 Rome, si vous voulez un service \u00e0 large bande et un t\u00e9l\u00e9phone sans fil, \u00e7a vous co\u00fbte 21,11 $. On est bien loin des tarifs ici au Canada, puisque les Canadiens paient environ 50 $ de plus pour un forfait de 2 Gb de donn\u00e9es, et ce n\u2019est qu\u2019un exemple.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980567\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les consommateurs qui habitent en France, au Royaume-Uni, en Italie et sur le vaste territoire australien paient 50 $ de moins par mois que les consommateurs canadiens, pour un forfait de 2 Gb de donn\u00e9es. C\u2019est de l\u2019arnaque, il n\u2019y a pas d\u2019autre fa\u00e7on de le dire, et les gouvernements refusent de prot\u00e9ger les consommateurs. \u00c7a doit cesser aujourd\u2019hui, avec le plan en cinq points du NPD.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980568\" data-originallang=\"en\">On a d\u00e9j\u00e0 donn\u00e9 lecture de la motion, mais il est important de revenir sur ce que propose le plan en cinq points du NPD.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980569\" data-originallang=\"en\">Premi\u00e8rement, nous instaurons un plafonnement des prix, afin que tous les Canadiens voient leur facture diminuer. C\u2019est ce qu\u2019ont fait les autres pays, et cela a permis de r\u00e9duire la facture des consommateurs.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980570\" data-originallang=\"en\">Deuxi\u00e8mement, nous supprimons les plafonds de donn\u00e9es pour l\u2019Internet \u00e0 large bande et nous obligeons les entreprises \u00e0 cr\u00e9er des forfaits de donn\u00e9es illimit\u00e9es \u00e0 des tarifs abordables pour les services sans fil. La suppression du plafond de donn\u00e9es a aussi \u00e9t\u00e9 une mesure tr\u00e8s efficace pour les consommateurs des autres pays, qui ont vu leur facture diminuer consid\u00e9rablement, d\u2019environ 600 $ par an. Imaginez ce que pourrait faire la famille canadienne moyenne avec ces 600 $ de plus qu\u2019elle paie par rapport \u00e0 une famille italienne, fran\u00e7aise, anglaise ou australienne! Absolument rien ne justifie l\u2019arnaque dont nous sommes les victimes au Canada.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980571\" data-originallang=\"en\">Troisi\u00e8mement, nous \u00e9liminons les pratiques de vente de services scandaleuses et inacceptables au moyen d\u2019une d\u00e9claration des droits des consommateurs de services de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980572\" data-originallang=\"en\">Quatri\u00e8mement, nous r\u00e9visons la structure de la vente aux ench\u00e8res du spectre pour nous assurer que les Canadiens et Canadiennes ordinaires en profitent au maximum.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980573\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cinqui\u00e8mement, nous demandons au Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des t\u00e9l\u00e9communications canadiennes d\u2019annuler sa politique de mise en \u0153uvre des services \u00e0 large bande qui condamne les r\u00e9gions rurales et \u00e9loign\u00e9es \u00e0 des services \u00e0 large bande et sans fil inf\u00e9rieurs aux normes.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980574\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce plan en cinq points fait l\u2019affaire de tout le monde, \u00e0 l\u2019exception des lobbyistes des grandes soci\u00e9t\u00e9s de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications. Il est important que le Parlement l\u2019adopte aujourd\u2019hui. Il permettra \u00e0 la famille canadienne moyenne d\u2019\u00e9conomiser 600 $ par an. C\u2019est beaucoup.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980575\" data-originallang=\"en\">J\u2019invite donc tous les d\u00e9put\u00e9s \u00e0 voter en faveur du plan en cinq points du NPD dont l\u2019objectif est de r\u00e9duire le co\u00fbt des t\u00e9l\u00e9communications et d\u2019\u00e9largir les services au Canada.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/peter-julian-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/peter-julian/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4198/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688748",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Government Orders",
                "fr": "Ordres \u00c9manant Du Gouvernement"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Business of Supply",
                "fr": "Travaux des subsides"
            },
            "h3": {
                "en": "Opposition Motion\u2014Telecommunications",
                "fr": "Motion de l'opposition \u2014 Les t\u00e9l\u00e9communications"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 12:10:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Dan Albas (Central Okanagan\u2014Similkameen\u2014Nicola, CPC)",
                "fr": "M. Dan Albas (Central Okanagan\u2014Similkameen\u2014Nicola, PCC)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980576\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, I appreciate my fellow British Columbian raising an important topic. Canadians obviously are finding life less affordable under the Liberal government and we should be looking for ways to find some relief for them. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980577\" data-originallang=\"en\">In true NDP form, the intention is fine, but the execution is terrible. Some of the policies being presented in the motion are right out of the 1970s. The \u201czap, you're frozen\u201d approach of a price cap would alter the way we can access new technologies. For example, 5G technology is coming. It will require tens of billions of dollars of new Internet infrastructure. It will allow Canadian businesses and Canadian individuals to innovate. However, with a price cap, how does the member propose that those investments of tens of billions of dollars be made?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980578\" data-originallang=\"en\">Can the member explain how, under a price cap where the price is pushed down to a certain amount, companies will be able to unroll this 5G technology that people want?</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980576\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, je salue mon coll\u00e8gue de Colombie-Britannique qui a soulev\u00e9 un sujet important. Les Canadiens constatent sans aucun doute que la vie co\u00fbte plus cher avec un gouvernement lib\u00e9ral, et nous allons essayer de trouver des fa\u00e7ons de leur venir en aide.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980577\" data-originallang=\"en\">Comme d\u2019habitude avec le NPD, l\u2019intention est bonne, mais la mise en \u0153uvre est nulle. Certaines des mesures propos\u00e9es dans la motion nous ram\u00e8nent aux ann\u00e9es 1970, \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9poque du contr\u00f4le des prix et des salaires. Quand vous plafonnez les prix, vous modifiez les conditions d\u2019acc\u00e8s aux nouvelles technologies. Par exemple, la technologie 5G est sur le point d\u2019\u00eatre d\u00e9ploy\u00e9e. Elle va n\u00e9cessiter des dizaines de milliards de dollars en nouvelles infrastructures Internet. Elle va permettre \u00e0 des entreprises canadiennes d\u2019innover. Mais avec un plafonnement des prix, comment le d\u00e9put\u00e9 s\u2019imagine-t-il que ces investissements de dizaines de milliards de dollars vont pouvoir se faire?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980578\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le d\u00e9put\u00e9 peut-il nous expliquer comment, avec un plafonnement des prix et, partant, une pression sur les prix, les entreprises vont pouvoir d\u00e9ployer la technologie 5G que les consommateurs demandent?</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/dan-albas-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/dan-albas/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4309/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688755",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Government Orders",
                "fr": "Ordres \u00c9manant Du Gouvernement"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Business of Supply",
                "fr": "Travaux des subsides"
            },
            "h3": {
                "en": "Opposition Motion\u2014Telecommunications",
                "fr": "Motion de l'opposition \u2014 Les t\u00e9l\u00e9communications"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 12:10:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Peter Julian",
                "fr": "M. Peter Julian"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980579\" data-originallang=\"en\">Once again, Mr. Speaker, Conservatives are supporting the big telecom lobbyists, like they have done with big oil and gas. No matter how much money the Liberals pour into companies, for the Conservatives it never seems to be enough. Here is a case where the Conservatives could have taken action for 10 years and never did. That means every Canadian consumer, including consumers in the member's own riding, are paying $600 more than they should be because of the lack of government action. The member threw out a drive-by insult, but the reality is that other countries have put these measures in place. Other countries have protected their consumers and it is about time the Canadian government actually protected consumers.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980580\" data-originallang=\"en\">Another point is that this would also have a profound impact on small businesses. Small businesses are being gouged, including in the member's own riding. Putting these measures in place not only helps individual Canadian families but it helps small businesses that can be competitive and create jobs in communities right across the country. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980581\" data-originallang=\"en\">The average revenue per gigabyte in Canada is up to 70 times for big telecom than it is in other countries. We are talking about excessive windfall profits. We need some common sense and decency and we need to save money for Canadian consumers.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980579\" data-originallang=\"en\">Une fois de plus, monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, les conservateurs soutiennent les lobbyistes des grandes soci\u00e9t\u00e9s de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications, comme ils le font avec les grosses soci\u00e9t\u00e9s p\u00e9troli\u00e8res et gazi\u00e8res. Peu importe les fonds que les lib\u00e9raux consacrent aux entreprises, pour les conservateurs, ce n\u2019est apparemment jamais assez. Voil\u00e0 un cas o\u00f9 les conservateurs ont eu 10 ans pour prendre des mesures, mais n\u2019ont rien fait. Cela veut dire que chaque consommateur canadien, y compris les consommateurs dans la circonscription du d\u00e9put\u00e9, paie 600 $ de plus qu\u2019ils ne devraient parce que le gouvernement n\u2019a pas pris de mesures. Le d\u00e9put\u00e9 a balanc\u00e9 une insulte au passage, mais la r\u00e9alit\u00e9 est que d\u2019autres pays ont pris ces mesures. D\u2019autres pays prot\u00e8gent leurs consommateurs et il est temps que le gouvernement canadien en fasse autant.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980580\" data-originallang=\"en\">Par ailleurs, ces mesures auront aussi des cons\u00e9quences importantes pour les petites entreprises, car elles sont saign\u00e9es \u00e0 blanc, y compris dans la circonscription du d\u00e9put\u00e9. En prenant ces mesures, on aidera non seulement les familles canadiennes, mais aussi les petites entreprises qui peuvent \u00eatre concurrentielles et cr\u00e9er des emplois dans des collectivit\u00e9s dans tout le pays.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980581\" data-originallang=\"en\">Au Canada, le revenu moyen par gigaoctet pour les grandes soci\u00e9t\u00e9s de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications est 70 fois sup\u00e9rieur \u00e0 ce qu\u2019il est dans d\u2019autres pays. Nous parlons de b\u00e9n\u00e9fices plus que mirobolants. Nous devons faire preuve de bon sens et de d\u00e9cence et nous devons faire \u00e9conomiser de l\u2019argent aux consommateurs canadiens.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/peter-julian-2/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/peter-julian/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4198/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688759",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Government Orders",
                "fr": "Ordres \u00c9manant Du Gouvernement"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Business of Supply",
                "fr": "Travaux des subsides"
            },
            "h3": {
                "en": "Opposition Motion\u2014Telecommunications",
                "fr": "Motion de l'opposition \u2014 Les t\u00e9l\u00e9communications"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 12:15:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)",
                "fr": "M. Kevin Lamoureux (secr\u00e9taire parlementaire de la leader du gouvernement \u00e0 la Chambre des communes, Lib.)"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980582\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, Canadians as a whole, compared to people in other countries in the world, are very well-educated consumers. They understand the principles of consumption, for the most part. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980583\" data-originallang=\"en\">I appreciated some of the statistics the member across the way gave. It is really important when drawing comparisons to compare apples to apples. I am glad the member brought up the country of Australia. Let us say the disposable income of an individual is <em>x</em> dollars and the average cost of housing is around 30% or 32%. Has the member across the way or the NDP done a calculation related to the average cost for communications for a consumer in Australia compared to in Canada? Just to say one bill is $60 and another bill is $50, we do not know what that works out to in terms of the percentage of an individual's annual income.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980582\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, compar\u00e9s \u00e0 la population d\u2019autres pays dans le monde, les Canadiens dans leur ensemble sont des consommateurs tr\u00e8s bien inform\u00e9s. Ils comprennent, pour la plupart, les principes de la consommation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980583\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je remercie le d\u00e9put\u00e9 d\u2019en face de certaines de ses statistiques. Il est vraiment important, quand on compare, de comparer ce qui est comparable. Je suis heureux que le d\u00e9put\u00e9 ait choisi comme exemple l\u2019Australie. Disons que le revenu disponible d\u2019une personne s\u2019\u00e9l\u00e8ve \u00e0 <em>x</em> dollars et que le co\u00fbt moyen du logement avoisine les 30 ou 32 %. Le d\u00e9put\u00e9 d\u2019en face ou le NPD ont-ils calcul\u00e9 le co\u00fbt moyen des communications pour un consommateur australien par rapport \u00e0 un consommateur canadien? Disons qu\u2019une facture se monte \u00e0 60 $ et une autre \u00e0 50 $, nous ne savons pas quel pourcentage du revenu annuel d\u2019une personne cela repr\u00e9sente.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/kevin-lamoureux-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/kevin-lamoureux/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4032/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688761",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Government Orders",
                "fr": "Ordres \u00c9manant Du Gouvernement"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Business of Supply",
                "fr": "Travaux des subsides"
            },
            "h3": {
                "en": "Opposition Motion\u2014Telecommunications",
                "fr": "Motion de l'opposition \u2014 Les t\u00e9l\u00e9communications"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2019-06-10 12:15:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Peter Julian",
                "fr": "M. Peter Julian"
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980584\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, I wish the member had listened to my speech, but he will have other opportunities as other NDP members explain it again later on.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980585\" data-originallang=\"en\">The difference I cited is for a two gigabytes per month plan. The average cost in Canada, in places like Toronto or the member's own riding in Winnipeg, is $75.44 per month. In Sydney, Australia, for example, it is $24.70. That is what I cited in my speech and I will be reiterating it throughout the course of the day. There is simply no way to justify Canadians in Winnipeg having to pay $50 per month more for their telecom, wireless and broadband services, than an Australian pays. They have the same infrastructure challenges, apples to apples. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980586\" data-originallang=\"en\">What has happened, though, in Australia is that the government has taken effective measures to ensure there are not these windfall profits and that consumers are not being gouged. That is what New Democrats are bringing to the floor of the House of Commons today.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5980584\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 aurait d\u00fb \u00e9couter mon intervention, mais d\u2019autres occasions se pr\u00e9senteront, car d\u2019autres d\u00e9put\u00e9s n\u00e9o-d\u00e9mocrates l\u2019expliqueront plus tard.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980585\" data-originallang=\"en\">La diff\u00e9rence que j\u2019ai mentionn\u00e9e porte sur un contrat de deux gigaoctets par mois. Le co\u00fbt moyen au Canada, dans des endroits comme Toronto ou dans la circonscription du d\u00e9put\u00e9, \u00e0 Winnipeg, est de 75,44 $ par mois. \u00c0 Sydney, en Australie, par exemple, il est de 24,70 $. Voil\u00e0 ce que je disais dans mon intervention et que je r\u00e9p\u00e9terai tout au long de la journ\u00e9e. Il est tout simplement impossible de justifier que les Canadiens \u00e0 Winnipeg doivent payer 50 $ de plus par mois que les Australiens pour leurs services de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications, de t\u00e9l\u00e9phonie sans fil et de large bande. Les probl\u00e8mes d\u2019infrastructure sont les m\u00eames, la comparaison est donc valable.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5980586\" data-originallang=\"en\">La diff\u00e9rence, c\u2019est qu\u2019en Australie, le gouvernement a pris de r\u00e9elles mesures pour qu\u2019il n\u2019y ait pas de b\u00e9n\u00e9fices mirobolants et pour que les consommateurs ne se fassent pas arnaquer. C\u2019est ce que les n\u00e9o-d\u00e9mocrates soumettent \u00e0 la Chambre des communes aujourd\u2019hui.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/debates/2019/6/10/peter-julian-3/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/peter-julian/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4198/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "10688763",
            "h1": {
                "en": "Government Orders",
                "fr": "Ordres \u00c9manant Du Gouvernement"
            },
            "h2": {
                "en": "Business of Supply",
                "fr": "Travaux des subsides"
            },
            "h3": {
                "en": "Opposition Motion\u2014Telecommunications",
                "fr": "Motion de l'opposition \u2014 Les t\u00e9l\u00e9communications"
            },
            "document_url": "/debates/2019/6/10/"
        }
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