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of speeches
from the openparliament.ca API. If you’re new here, you might want to look at the documentation. If API and JSON are gibberish to you, you’re better off at our main site.
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{
"objects": [
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:25:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair (Hon. John McKay (Scarborough\u2014Guildwood, Lib.))",
"fr": "Le pr\u00e9sident (L'hon. John McKay (Scarborough\u2014Guildwood, Lib.))"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934356\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I'll bring this meeting to order.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934357\" data-originallang=\"en\">Welcome to the 162nd meeting of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934358\" data-originallang=\"en\">We have the Honourable David McGuinty and Rennie Marcoux. Thank you to both of you for coming and presenting the annual report of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, which has the unfortunate name of NSICOP. I'm sure Mr. McGuinty will explain in his own inimitable style what NSICOP actually does. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934359\" data-originallang=\"en\">Welcome, Mr. McGuinty, to the committee. We look forward to your comments.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934356\" data-originallang=\"en\">La s\u00e9ance est ouverte.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934357\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bienvenue \u00e0 cette 162<sup>e</sup> r\u00e9union du Comit\u00e9 permanent de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 publique et nationale.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934358\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous accueillons aujourd'hui l'honorable David McGuinty et Mme Rennie Marcoux. Merci \u00e0 tous les deux d'\u00eatre des n\u00f4tres pour nous pr\u00e9senter le rapport annuel du Comit\u00e9 des parlementaires sur la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale et le renseignement (CPSNR). Je suis convaincu que M. McGuinty saura nous expliquer dans son style bien \u00e0 lui le r\u00f4le exact de ce comit\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934359\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bienvenue, monsieur McGuinty. Je vous c\u00e8de la parole pour vos observations pr\u00e9liminaires.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/the-chair-1/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/john-mckay/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1423/",
"procedural": true,
"source_id": "10623261",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:25:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. David McGuinty (Chair, National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians)",
"fr": "L\u2019hon. David McGuinty (pr\u00e9sident, Comit\u00e9 des parlementaires sur la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale et le renseignement)"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934360\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934361\" data-originallang=\"en\">Good afternoon, colleagues. Thank you for your invitation to appear before your committee. I am joined by Rennie Marcoux, executive director of the Secretariat of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, or NSICOP. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934362\" data-originallang=\"en\"> It's a privilege to be here with you today to discuss the 2018 annual report of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934363\" data-originallang=\"en\">The committee's first annual report is the result of the work, the dedication and the commitment from my colleagues on the committee. It is intended to contribute to an informed debate among Canadians on the difficult challenges of providing security and intelligence organizations with the exceptional powers necessary to identify and counter threats to the nation while at the same time ensuring that their activities continue to respect and preserve our democratic rights. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934364\" data-originallang=\"fr\">NSICOP has the mandate to review the overall framework for national security and intelligence in Canada, including legislation, regulations, policy, administration and finances.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934365\" data-originallang=\"fr\">It may also examine any activity that is carried out by a department that relates to national security or intelligence.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934366\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Finally, it may review any matter relating to national security or intelligence that a minister refers to the committee.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934367\" data-originallang=\"en\">Members of the committee are all cleared to a top secret level, swear an oath and are permanently bound to secrecy. Members also agree that the nature of the committee, multi-party, drawn from the House of Commons and the Senate, with a broad range of experience, bring a unique perspective to these important issues. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934368\" data-originallang=\"en\">In order to conduct our work, we are entitled to have access to any information that is related to our mandate, but there are some exceptions, namely, cabinet confidences, the identity of confidential sources or protected witnesses, and ongoing law enforcement investigations that may lead to prosecutions. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934369\" data-originallang=\"en\">The year 2018 was a year of learning for the committee. We spent many hours and meetings building our understanding of our mandate and of the organizations responsible for protecting Canada and Canadians. The committee was briefed by officials from across the security and intelligence community and visited all seven of the main departments and agencies. Numerous meetings were also held with the national security and intelligence adviser to the <a data-HoCid=\"214296\" href=\"/politicians/justin-trudeau/\" title=\"Justin Trudeau\">Prime Minister</a>. NSICOP also decided to conduct a review of certain security allegations surrounding the <a data-HoCid=\"214296\" href=\"/politicians/justin-trudeau/\" title=\"Justin Trudeau\">Prime Minister</a>'s trip to India in February 2018. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934370\" data-originallang=\"en\">Over the course of the calendar year, the committee met 54 times, with an average of four hours per meeting. Annex E of the report outlines the committee's extensive outreach and engagement activities with government officials, academics and civil liberties groups. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934371\" data-originallang=\"en\">The annual report is a result of extensive oral and written briefings, more than 8,000 pages of printed materials, dozens of meetings between NSICOP analysts and government officials, in-depth research and analysis, and thoughtful and detailed deliberations among committee members. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934372\" data-originallang=\"en\">The report is also unanimous. In total, the report makes 11 findings and seven recommendations to the government. The committee has been scrupulously careful to take a non-partisan approach to these issues. We hope that our findings and recommendations will strengthen the accountability and effectiveness of Canada's security and intelligence community. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934373\" data-originallang=\"fr\">The report before you contains five chapters, including the two substantive reviews conducted by the committee.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934374\" data-originallang=\"fr\">The first chapter explains the origins of NSICOP, its mandate and how it approaches its work, including what factors the committee takes into consideration when deciding what to review.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934375\" data-originallang=\"fr\">The second chapter provides an overview of the security and intelligence organizations in Canada, of the threats to Canada's security and how these organizations work together to keep Canada and Canadian safe and to promote Canadian interests.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934376\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Those two chapters are followed by the committee's two substantive reviews for 2018.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934377\" data-originallang=\"en\"> In chapter 3, the committee reviewed the way the government determines its intelligence priorities. Why is this important? There are three reasons. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934378\" data-originallang=\"en\">First, this process is the fundamental means of providing direction to Canada's intelligence collectors and assessors, ensuring they focus on the government's, and the country's, highest priorities. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934379\" data-originallang=\"en\">Second, this process is essential to ensure accountability in the intelligence community. What the intelligence community does is highly classified. This process gives the government regular insight into intelligence operations from a government-wide lens. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934380\" data-originallang=\"en\">Third, this process helps the government to manage risk. When the government approves the intelligence priorities, it is accepting the risks of focusing on some targets and also the risk of not focusing on others. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934381\" data-originallang=\"fr\">The committee found that the process, from identifying priorities to translating them into practical guidance, to informing ministers and seeking their approval, does have a solid foundation. That said, any process can be improved.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934382\" data-originallang=\"fr\">In particular, the committee recommends that the Prime Minister's national security and intelligence advisor should take a stronger leadership role in the process in order to make sure that cabinet has the best information to make important decisions on where Canada should focus its intelligence activities and its resources.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934383\" data-originallang=\"en\">Moving on, chapter 4 reviews the intelligence activities of the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces. The government's defence policy, \u201cStrong, Secure, Engaged\u201d, states that DND/CAF is \u201cthe only entity within the Government of Canada that employs the full spectrum of intelligence collection capabilities while providing multi-source analysis.\u201d</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934384\" data-originallang=\"en\"> We recognize that defence intelligence activities are critical to the safety of troops and the success of Canadian military activities, including those abroad, and they are expected to grow. When the government decides to deploy the Canadian Armed Forces, DND/CAF also has implicit authority to conduct defence intelligence activities. In both cases, the source of authority is what is known as the Crown prerogative. This is very different from how other intelligence organizations, notably CSE and CSIS, operate. Each of those organizations has clear statutory authority to conduct intelligence activities, and they are subject to regular, independent and external review. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934385\" data-originallang=\"en\">This was a significant and complex review for the committee, with four findings and three recommendations.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934386\" data-originallang=\"en\">Our first recommendation focuses on areas where DND/CAF could make changes to strengthen its existing internal governance structure over its intelligence activities and to strengthen the accountability of the minister. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934387\" data-originallang=\"en\">The other two recommendations would require the government to amend or to consider enacting legislation. The committee has set out the reasons why it formed the view that regular independent review of DND/CAF intelligence activities will strengthen accountability over its operations. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934388\" data-originallang=\"en\">We believe there is an opportunity for the government, with Bill <a data-HoCid=\"9057418\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-59/\" title=\"An Act respecting national security matters\">C-59</a> still before the Senate, to put in place requirements for annual reporting on DND/CAF's national security or intelligence activities, as would be required for CSIS and CSE. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934389\" data-originallang=\"en\">Second, the committee also believes that its review substantiates the need for the government to give very serious consideration to providing explicit legislative authority for the conduct of defence intelligence activities. Defence intelligence is critical to the operations of the Canadian Armed Forces and, like all intelligence activities, involves inherent risks. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934390\" data-originallang=\"en\">DND/CAF officials expressed concerns to the committee about maintaining operational flexibility for the conduct of defence intelligence activities in support of military operations. The committee, therefore, thought it was important to present both the risks and the benefits of placing defence intelligence on a clear statutory footing.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934391\" data-originallang=\"en\">Our recommendations are a reflection of the committee's analysis of these important issues. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934392\" data-originallang=\"fr\">We would be pleased to take your questions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934393\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you. </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934360\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci beaucoup, monsieur le pr\u00e9sident.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934361\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bonjour, chers coll\u00e8gues, et merci de nous avoir invit\u00e9s \u00e0 compara\u00eetre devant votre comit\u00e9. Je suis accompagn\u00e9 de Mme Rennie Marcoux, directrice g\u00e9n\u00e9rale du Secr\u00e9tariat du CPSNR.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934362\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est un privil\u00e8ge pour nous de pouvoir discuter avec vous aujourd'hui du rapport annuel du Comit\u00e9 des parlementaires sur la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale et le renseignement pour 2018.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934363\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce premier rapport annuel est le fruit du travail, du d\u00e9vouement et de l'engagement de tous mes coll\u00e8gues faisant partie de ce comit\u00e9. Nous souhaitons que ce rapport puisse contribuer \u00e0 un d\u00e9bat \u00e9clair\u00e9 entre Canadiens quant aux difficult\u00e9s qui nous attendent lorsqu'il s'agit de conf\u00e9rer aux organisations de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 et de renseignement les pouvoirs exceptionnels n\u00e9cessaires pour cerner et contrer les menaces qui p\u00e8sent sur la nation tout en veillant \u00e0 ce que leurs activit\u00e9s soient men\u00e9es de mani\u00e8re \u00e0 respecter et \u00e0 prot\u00e9ger nos droits d\u00e9mocratiques.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934364\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Le CPSNR a pour mandat d'examiner l'ensemble du cadre de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale et du renseignement au Canada, soit les lois, les r\u00e8glements, la strat\u00e9gie, l'administration et les finances.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934365\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Il peut aussi examiner toute activit\u00e9 men\u00e9e par un minist\u00e8re li\u00e9 \u00e0 la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale ou au renseignement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934366\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Enfin, il peut examiner toute question se rapportant \u00e0 la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale ou au renseignement qu'un ministre nous confie.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934367\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les membres de notre comit\u00e9 poss\u00e8dent tous une cote de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 de niveau \u00ab tr\u00e8s secret \u00bb. Nous pr\u00eatons serment et nous sommes astreints au secret \u00e0 perp\u00e9tuit\u00e9. Nous pouvons en outre jeter un \u00e9clairage tout \u00e0 fait particulier sur ces enjeux primordiaux du fait que nous comptons des membres de plusieurs partis, aussi bien \u00e0 la Chambre des communes qu'au S\u00e9nat, qui nous font b\u00e9n\u00e9ficier d'une gamme vari\u00e9e d'exp\u00e9riences.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934368\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous pouvons acc\u00e9der \u00e0 tout renseignement se rapportant \u00e0 notre mandat afin d'ex\u00e9cuter notre travail. Il y a cependant des exceptions. C'est le cas notamment des documents confidentiels du Cabinet, de l'identit\u00e9 de sources confidentielles ou de t\u00e9moins prot\u00e9g\u00e9s, et des enqu\u00eates men\u00e9es par les forces de l'ordre pouvant conduire \u00e0 des poursuites judiciaires.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934369\" data-originallang=\"en\">L'ann\u00e9e 2018 en \u00e9t\u00e9 une d'apprentissage pour le comit\u00e9. Nous avons consacr\u00e9 plusieurs heures et r\u00e9unions au d\u00e9veloppement d'une meilleure compr\u00e9hension de notre mandat et du fonctionnement des organismes charg\u00e9s de prot\u00e9ger le Canada et les Canadiens. Des fonctionnaires des diff\u00e9rents secteurs de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 et du renseignement ont inform\u00e9 les membres du comit\u00e9, et nous avons visit\u00e9 les sept principaux minist\u00e8res et organismes concern\u00e9s. Nous avons rencontr\u00e9 plusieurs fois la conseill\u00e8re \u00e0 la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale et au renseignement aupr\u00e8s du <a data-HoCid=\"214296\" href=\"/politicians/justin-trudeau/\" title=\"Justin Trudeau\">premier ministre</a>. Le comit\u00e9 a \u00e9galement d\u00e9cid\u00e9 de faire enqu\u00eate concernant les diverses all\u00e9gations entourant le voyage du <a data-HoCid=\"214296\" href=\"/politicians/justin-trudeau/\" title=\"Justin Trudeau\">premier ministre</a> en Inde en f\u00e9vrier 2018.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934370\" data-originallang=\"en\">En 2018, le comit\u00e9 s'est r\u00e9uni \u00e0 54 reprises, en moyenne quatre heures \u00e0 chaque fois. Vous trouverez \u00e0 l'annexe C du rapport la liste des repr\u00e9sentants du gouvernement, du milieu universitaire et des groupes de d\u00e9fense des libert\u00e9s civiles que le comit\u00e9 a eu le plaisir de rencontrer en 2018.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934371\" data-originallang=\"en\">Notre rapport annuel est l'aboutissement de nombreuses s\u00e9ances d'information, \u00e9crites et orales, d'une analyse de plus de 8 000 pages de documents, de dizaines de rencontres entre les analystes du CPSNR et les repr\u00e9sentants du gouvernement, d'un travail approfondi de recherche et d'analyse, et de d\u00e9lib\u00e9rations r\u00e9fl\u00e9chies et d\u00e9taill\u00e9es entre les membres du comit\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934372\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il faut aussi pr\u00e9ciser que ce rapport est unanime. En tout et partout, nous avons tir\u00e9 11 conclusions et formul\u00e9 sept recommandations \u00e0 l'intention du gouvernement. Le comit\u00e9 s'est bien assur\u00e9 d'aborder ces questions en adoptant une approche non partisane. Nous osons esp\u00e9rer que nos conclusions et recommandations contribueront \u00e0 renforcer la reddition de comptes et l'efficacit\u00e9 au sein de l'appareil de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 et du renseignement au Canada.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934373\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Le rapport qui vous est pr\u00e9sent\u00e9 aujourd'hui contient cinq chapitres, dont certains portent sur les deux examens de fond men\u00e9s par le CPSNR.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934374\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Le premier chapitre d\u00e9crit les origines du CPSNR, son mandat et sa fa\u00e7on d'aborder le travail, y compris les facteurs qu'il examine ou consid\u00e8re au moment de choisir les examens \u00e0 effectuer.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934375\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Le deuxi\u00e8me chapitre pr\u00e9sente un aper\u00e7u des organismes de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 et du renseignement au Canada et des menaces pour la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 du Canada ainsi que la mani\u00e8re dont ces organismes collaborent afin d'assurer la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 du Canada et des Canadiens et de promouvoir les int\u00e9r\u00eats du pays.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934376\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Les chapitres suivants pr\u00e9sentent les deux examens de fond entrepris par le CPSNR en 2018.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934377\" data-originallang=\"en\">Au chapitre 3, le comit\u00e9 a examin\u00e9 la fa\u00e7on dont le gouvernement du Canada \u00e9tablit ses priorit\u00e9s en mati\u00e8re de renseignement. Pourquoi est-ce important? Pour trois raisons.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934378\" data-originallang=\"en\">Premi\u00e8rement, ce processus est le moyen privil\u00e9gi\u00e9 pour guider le travail des collecteurs et des \u00e9valuateurs de renseignement du Canada afin de veiller \u00e0 ce qu'ils canalisent leurs efforts en fonction des grandes priorit\u00e9s du gouvernement et de notre pays.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934379\" data-originallang=\"en\">Deuxi\u00e8mement, c'est un processus essentiel pour s'assurer qu'il y a reddition de comptes au sein de l'appareil du renseignement, lequel accomplit un travail hautement confidentiel. Gr\u00e2ce \u00e0 ce processus, le gouvernement b\u00e9n\u00e9ficie de mises \u00e0 jour r\u00e9guli\u00e8res sur les op\u00e9rations de renseignement dans une optique de gestion pangouvernementale. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934380\" data-originallang=\"en\">Troisi\u00e8mement, ce processus aide le gouvernement \u00e0 g\u00e9rer le risque. Lorsque le gouvernement approuve les priorit\u00e9s en mati\u00e8re de renseignement, il accepte le risque de se concentrer sur certaines cibles en m\u00eame temps que le risque de ne pas mettre l'accent sur d'autres objectifs. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934381\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Le CPSNR a conclu que le processus, de la d\u00e9termination des priorit\u00e9s \u00e0 l'orientation pratique, et de la transmission de l'information aux ministres \u00e0 l'obtention de leur approbation, repose sur des bases solides. Cela \u00e9tant dit, on peut am\u00e9liorer n'importe quel processus.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934382\" data-originallang=\"fr\">En particulier, le CPSNR recommande que la conseill\u00e8re \u00e0 la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale et au renseignement aupr\u00e8s du premier ministre joue un r\u00f4le plus net de chef de file durant le processus afin d'assurer que le Cabinet poss\u00e8de les meilleurs renseignements qui soient pour \u00eatre en mesure de prendre les d\u00e9cisions importantes, par exemple en ce qui a trait aux secteurs sur lesquels le Canada devrait axer ses activit\u00e9s de renseignement et ses ressources</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934383\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je passe maintenant au chapitre 4 qui traite des activit\u00e9s de renseignement du minist\u00e8re de la D\u00e9fense nationale et des Forces arm\u00e9es canadiennes. La politique de d\u00e9fense du gouvernement, Protection, S\u00e9curit\u00e9, Engagement, stipule que ces deux organisations constituent \u00ab l'unique entit\u00e9 du gouvernement du Canada \u00e0 utiliser le spectre complet des activit\u00e9s de collecte de renseignements tout en assurant une analyse multisources. \u00bb</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934384\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous reconnaissons que les activit\u00e9s de renseignement de la D\u00e9fense sont essentielles \u00e0 la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 des troupes et \u00e0 la r\u00e9ussite des activit\u00e9s militaires canadiennes, y compris celles men\u00e9es \u00e0 l'\u00e9tranger, et qu'elles devraient prendre de l'expansion. Quand le gouvernement d\u00e9cide de d\u00e9ployer les forces arm\u00e9es, le minist\u00e8re de la D\u00e9fense et les Forces arm\u00e9es canadiennes ont l'autorit\u00e9 implicite de mener leurs activit\u00e9s de renseignement de d\u00e9fense. Dans les deux cas, c'est la pr\u00e9rogative de la Couronne qui conf\u00e8re cette autorit\u00e9. Cette structure diff\u00e8re de celle des autres organismes de renseignement, le Centre de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 des t\u00e9l\u00e9communications (CST) et le Service canadien du renseignement de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 (SCRS), qui m\u00e8nent leurs activit\u00e9s en vertu de pouvoirs clairs conf\u00e9r\u00e9s par une loi et sont assujettis \u00e0 des examens externes ind\u00e9pendants.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934385\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est donc \u00e0 l'issue d'un examen complexe que le comit\u00e9 a formul\u00e9 quatre conclusions et trois recommandations.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934386\" data-originallang=\"en\">Notre premi\u00e8re recommandation est ax\u00e9e sur les secteurs o\u00f9 le minist\u00e8re de la D\u00e9fense nationale et les Forces arm\u00e9es canadiennes pourraient apporter des changements \u00e0 l'interne en vue de renforcer la structure de gouvernance de leurs activit\u00e9s de renseignement et la reddition de comptes de la part du ministre.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934387\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nos deux autres recommandations exigeraient du gouvernement qu'il modifie ou adopte des lois. Le comit\u00e9 a expliqu\u00e9 les raisons pour lesquelles il en est venu \u00e0 la conclusion qu'un examen ind\u00e9pendant r\u00e9gulier des activit\u00e9s de renseignements du minist\u00e8re de la D\u00e9fense nationale et des Forces arm\u00e9es canadiennes permettrait une plus grande responsabilisation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934388\" data-originallang=\"en\">\u00c9tant donn\u00e9 que le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"9057418\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-59/\" title=\"An Act respecting national security matters\">C-59</a> est encore devant le S\u00e9nat, nous croyons que le gouvernement a ici l'occasion de le modifier afin que l'on fasse rapport chaque ann\u00e9e des activit\u00e9s de renseignement ou de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale du minist\u00e8re de la D\u00e9fense nationale et des Forces arm\u00e9es canadiennes, comme on l'exige du CST et du SCRS.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934389\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le comit\u00e9 est \u00e9galement d'avis que son examen confirme la n\u00e9cessit\u00e9 pour le gouvernement d'envisager tr\u00e8s s\u00e9rieusement d'accorder un pouvoir l\u00e9gislatif explicite en mati\u00e8re d'activit\u00e9s de renseignement de d\u00e9fense. Ce type de renseignement est essentiel aux op\u00e9rations des Forces arm\u00e9es canadiennes et comporte, comme toutes les activit\u00e9s de renseignement, des risques inh\u00e9rents. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934390\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans le cadre de notre examen, nous avons entendu les pr\u00e9occupations des fonctionnaires du minist\u00e8re de la D\u00e9fense nationale quant \u00e0 l'importance de maintenir une flexibilit\u00e9 op\u00e9rationnelle suffisante aux fins des activit\u00e9s de renseignement \u00e0 l'appui des op\u00e9rations militaires. Nous avons donc jug\u00e9 n\u00e9cessaire d'exposer les risques et les avantages de l'\u00e9tablissement d'une assise l\u00e9gislative claire pour le renseignement de d\u00e9fense.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934391\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nos recommandations sont le fruit de notre analyse de ces enjeux importants.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934392\" data-originallang=\"fr\">C'est avec plaisir que nous r\u00e9pondrons \u00e0 vos questions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934393\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/david-mcguinty-1/",
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},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:35:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": "Le pr\u00e9sident"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934394\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you, Mr. McGuinty.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934395\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Picard, you have seven minutes, please. </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934394\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci, monsieur McGuinty.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934395\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur Picard, vous avez sept minutes.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/the-chair-2/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/john-mckay/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1423/",
"procedural": true,
"source_id": "10623336",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:35:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Michel Picard (Montarville, Lib.)",
"fr": "M. Michel Picard (Montarville, Lib.)"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934396\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Thank you.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934397\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Welcome to our witnesses.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934398\" data-originallang=\"fr\">This my first experience with this committee, and I am very enthusiastic about it.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934399\" data-originallang=\"fr\">My first question is very basic, Mr. McGuinty, just to get the discussion rolling.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934400\" data-originallang=\"fr\">The NSICOP is a new organization and there is currently a learning curve associated with it. It is an addition to our current structures.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934401\" data-originallang=\"fr\">To help us better understand what our intelligence organizations do, can you explain how this organization, the NSICOP, adds value to what was done in the past, before it was established? </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934396\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Merci.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934397\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Je souhaite la bienvenue aux t\u00e9moins.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934398\" data-originallang=\"fr\">C'est ma premi\u00e8re exp\u00e9rience \u00e0 ce comit\u00e9, ce que je fais avec beaucoup d'enthousiasme.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934399\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Monsieur McGuinty, j'ai tout d'abord une question \u00e9l\u00e9mentaire, simplement pour amorcer la discussion.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934400\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Le CPSNR est un nouvel organisme et sa courbe d'apprentissage est actuellement en progression. C'est un ajout \u00e0 nos structures actuelles.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934401\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Pour nous aider \u00e0 mieux comprendre ce que nos organismes de renseignement font, pouvez-vous nous expliquer en quoi cet organisme, le CPSNR, constitue une valeur ajout\u00e9e par rapport \u00e0 ce qui se faisait par le pass\u00e9, avant sa cr\u00e9ation?</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/michel-picard-1/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/michel-picard/",
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},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:35:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. David McGuinty",
"fr": "L\u2019hon. David McGuinty"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934402\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Thank you for the question.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934403\" data-originallang=\"fr\">I would start by saying that the added value comes first from the fact that members of NSICOP have access to all classified information, to all documents, to presentations and to witnesses. Having access to the most in-depth information helps a great deal.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934404\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Then I believe that, this year, NSICOP has shown that it is very possible for parliamentarians of all parties, from both Houses of the Parliament of Canada, to work together in a non-partisan way. That is being done against a currently very partisan backdrop, I feel. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934405\" data-originallang=\"fr\">My colleagues and I decided from the outset that we would check the partisan approach at the door because of the importance of the work. Matters of national security are simply too important for us to be part of the normal daily tensions on the political stage.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934406\" data-originallang=\"fr\">The year was not easy because, in a sense, we had to learn how to get the plane off the ground. We formed a secretariat, we hired about a dozen full-time people and we have a budget of $3.5 million per year.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934407\" data-originallang=\"fr\">We are proud of what we have done to get NSICOP started in its first year.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934402\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> Merci de la question.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934403\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Je commencerais par dire que la valeur ajout\u00e9e vient d'abord du fait que les membres du CPSNR ont acc\u00e8s \u00e0 toutes le mat\u00e9riel classifi\u00e9, \u00e0 toute la documentation, aux pr\u00e9sentations et aux t\u00e9moins. Cela aide \u00e9norm\u00e9ment quand on a acc\u00e8s aux informations les plus approfondies.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934404\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Ensuite, je crois que le CPSNR a d\u00e9montr\u00e9, cette ann\u00e9e, que c'est tr\u00e8s possible pour les parlementaires, tous partis confondus et qu'ils viennent de l'une ou l'autre des deux Chambres du Parlement du Canada, de travailler ensemble d'une fa\u00e7on non partisane. Je crois que cela se fait dans un contexte o\u00f9 il y a actuellement \u00e9norm\u00e9ment de partisanerie.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934405\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Nous avons d\u00e9cid\u00e9, d\u00e8s le d\u00e9but, mes coll\u00e8gues et moi, que nous laisserions \u00e0 la porte cette approche partisane \u00e9tant donn\u00e9 l'importance du travail. Les questions qui entourent la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale sont simplement trop importantes pour que nous prenions part aux tiraillements normaux de la sc\u00e8ne politique au quotidien.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934406\" data-originallang=\"fr\">L'ann\u00e9e n'a pas \u00e9t\u00e9 facile parce que, d'une certaine fa\u00e7on, il fallait faire voler l'avion tout en le pilotant. Nous avons form\u00e9 un secr\u00e9tariat. Nous avons embauch\u00e9 une dizaine de personnes \u00e0 temps plein, et notre budget est de 3,5 millions de dollars par ann\u00e9e.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934407\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Nous sommes fiers. Nous sommes fiers des d\u00e9buts du CPSNR, de cette premi\u00e8re ann\u00e9e.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/david-mcguinty-2/",
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{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:35:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Michel Picard",
"fr": "M. Michel Picard"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934408\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Thank you.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934409\" data-originallang=\"fr\">So I am now going to ask you a more technical question. I would like to go back to your comment about military intelligence.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934410\" data-originallang=\"fr\">You made a comparison between the intelligence services, the agencies working in intelligence, such as the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, or CSIS, and the Security Communications Establishment, or CSE, on the one hand and, on the other hand, the other agencies engaged in intelligence activities. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934411\" data-originallang=\"fr\">When you talk about military intelligence, you say that the Department of National Defence encompasses the entire range of intelligence services. Are the services similar to the extent that we can consider them equal? </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934412\" data-originallang=\"fr\">How are military intelligence activities broader in scope than those in the other agencies? </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934413\" data-originallang=\"fr\">What comparisons can the government use to evaluate the issue of military intelligence? For example, can it rely on best practices in other countries in order to properly evaluate the needs in terms of military intelligence?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934408\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Merci.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934409\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Je vais alors vous poser une question d'ordre plus technique. J'aimerais revenir sur votre commentaire \u00e0 l'\u00e9gard du renseignement militaire.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934410\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Vous avez fait une comparaison entre, d'une part, les services de renseignement ou les agences qui travaillent dans le renseignement, notamment le Service canadien du renseignement de s\u00e9curit\u00e9, ou SCRS, et le Centre de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 des t\u00e9l\u00e9communications, ou CST, et, d'autre part, d'autres agences qui sont aussi engag\u00e9es dans des activit\u00e9s de renseignement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934411\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Lorsque vous parlez du renseignement militaire, vous dites que le minist\u00e8re de la D\u00e9fense nationale abrite le spectre global des services de renseignement. Les services sont-ils similaires \u00e0 tel point que nous puissions les comparer d'\u00e9gal \u00e0 \u00e9gal?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934412\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> En quoi les activit\u00e9s du renseignement militaire sont-elles plus larges que ce qui constitue le spectre du renseignement dans les autres agences?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934413\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Sur quelles comparaisons le gouvernement peut-il s'appuyer pour \u00e9valuer la question du renseignement militaire? Par exemple, peut-il se fier aux pratiques exemplaires qui ont cours dans d'autres pays pour \u00e9valuer \u00e0 sa juste valeur les besoins quant au renseignement militaire?</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/michel-picard-2/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/michel-picard/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4326/",
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},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:35:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. David McGuinty",
"fr": "L\u2019hon. David McGuinty"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934414\" data-originallang=\"fr\">First of all, we cannot forget that the legislative basis for the Department of National Defence always remains the prerogative of the Crown.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934415\" data-originallang=\"en\"> What we know about the Crown prerogative is that it's several centuries old. It's a very old vestigial power vested in the Crown that allows countries to, for example, deploy troops, prosecute wars and conduct foreign policy. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934416\" data-originallang=\"en\">The powers vested today in CSIS and CSE, for example, also sprang forth from the original concept of the Crown prerogative, but as a result of evolving, both of those organizations now have four corners of a statute within which to operate. They have their own law. They have their own enabling legislation, and by its own admission, in the government's defence paper, the Department of National Defence indicates that it's the only full spectrum organization in the country. In other words, it does what CSIS, CSE and the RCMP do combined. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934417\" data-originallang=\"en\">It also plans on expanding the number of intelligence personnel by 300 over the next several years. It is a major actor in the intelligence sphere. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934418\" data-originallang=\"en\">We took a long hard look at the statutory footing on which it's operating and began to ask some difficult probative questions. The report tries to walk a fine line between the merits of the government considering a statutory footing, new legislation, and some of the inherent risks that the department has brought to our attention. We've been very careful in the report to put it in very plain black and white for people to understand. In so doing, we wanted to simply raise the profile of this issue and ignite a debate, not only amongst parliamentarians but in Canadian society. </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934414\" data-originallang=\"fr\">En premier lieu, il ne faut pas oublier que le fondement l\u00e9gislatif du minist\u00e8re de la D\u00e9fense nationale reste toujours la pr\u00e9rogative de la Couronne.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934415\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous savons que la pr\u00e9rogative de la Couronne est un concept qui date de plusieurs si\u00e8cles. C'est un pouvoir tr\u00e8s ancien dont b\u00e9n\u00e9ficie la Couronne pour permettre \u00e0 un pays de d\u00e9ployer des troupes, de faire la guerre et d'appliquer sa politique \u00e9trang\u00e8re, entre autres exemples.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934416\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les pouvoirs conf\u00e9r\u00e9s notamment aujourd'hui au SCRS et au CST tirent aussi leur origine de ce concept ancien de la pr\u00e9rogative de la Couronne. Les choses ont toutefois \u00e9volu\u00e9 de telle sorte que ces deux organisations fonctionnent d\u00e9sormais dans le cadre bien d\u00e9fini de leurs lois habilitantes respectives. Dans sa propre politique de d\u00e9fense, le gouvernement indique que le minist\u00e8re de la D\u00e9fense nationale est la seule organisation au pays \u00e0 utiliser le spectre complet des capacit\u00e9s de renseignement. Autrement dit, il m\u00e8ne toutes les activit\u00e9s de renseignement que le SCRS, le CST et la GRC r\u00e9alisent chacun de leur c\u00f4t\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934417\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Au cours des prochaines ann\u00e9es, le minist\u00e8re compte \u00e9galement ajouter 300 employ\u00e9s \u00e0 son personnel affect\u00e9 au renseignement. Il est donc un acteur de tout premier plan dans ce domaine.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934418\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous avons examin\u00e9 de tr\u00e8s pr\u00e8s l'assise l\u00e9gislative servant de base \u00e0 son fonctionnement et avons commenc\u00e9 \u00e0 poser certaines questions difficiles qui rev\u00eatent une importance capitale. Notre rapport essaie d'\u00e9tablir un juste \u00e9quilibre entre les avantages pour le gouvernement d'envisager l'adoption d'une loi pouvant offrir ce fondement juridique et quelques-uns des risques inh\u00e9rents port\u00e9s \u00e0 notre attention par le minist\u00e8re. Nous avons mis tout en oeuvre pour expliquer tout cela le plus clairement possible dans le rapport de telle sorte que chacun puisse bien le comprendre. Nous voulions ainsi mettre cet enjeu en lumi\u00e8re et susciter un d\u00e9bat, non seulement entre les parlementaires, mais au sein de la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 canadienne dans son ensemble.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/david-mcguinty-3/",
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"source_id": "10623354",
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},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:40:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Michel Picard",
"fr": "M. Michel Picard"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934419\" data-originallang=\"en\">For the remaining time, my last question will be on one of your findings. On page 54 it states: </p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5934420\" data-originallang=\"en\"> F7. Performance measurements for the security and intelligence community is not robust enough to give Cabinet the context it needs to understand the efficiency and effectiveness of the security and Intelligence community. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5934421\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Do we have any example of prejudice caused by the lack of effectiveness? Would you expand on this finding please?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934419\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'ai une derni\u00e8re question portant sur vos conclusions. On peut lire \u00e0 la page 59 de votre rapport:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5934420\" data-originallang=\"en\"> C7. La mesure du rendement pour l'appareil de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 et du renseignement n'est pas suffisamment robuste pour fournir au Cabinet le contexte requis pour comprendre l'efficience et l'efficacit\u00e9 de l'appareil de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 et du renseignement. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"5934421\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pouvez-vous nous donner un exemple des pr\u00e9judices caus\u00e9s par ce manque d'efficacit\u00e9? Pourriez-vous nous en dire plus long au sujet de cette conclusion?</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/michel-picard-3/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/michel-picard/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4326/",
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "10623373",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:40:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Ms. Rennie Marcoux (Executive Director, Secretariat of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians)",
"fr": "Mme Rennie Marcoux (directrice g\u00e9n\u00e9rale, Secr\u00e9tariat du Comit\u00e9 des parlementaires sur la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale et le renseignement)"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934422\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I'll answer the question.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934423\" data-originallang=\"en\">What we've indicated in the report is that we did not have access to the actual cabinet documents, since it's a limit in our legislation. What we saw were all the discussions, the briefing materials and the minutes of meetings leading up to that. I think it's in the overall process, from start to finish, where we identify the result, that cabinet did not get enough in terms of answering these questions: What are the risks? What are the benefits? Where are the gaps in collection? Where are the gaps in assessment? Could we contribute more to the alliance? </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934424\" data-originallang=\"en\">It was the whole gamut of information, in terms of measuring the committee's performance, that we felt could be better.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934422\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vais r\u00e9pondre.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934423\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous avons indiqu\u00e9 dans le rapport que nous n'avions pas acc\u00e8s aux documents du Cabinet, car la loi nous impose des restrictions en la mati\u00e8re. Nous avons pu prendre connaissance de l'ensemble des discussions, des documents d'information et des proc\u00e8s-verbaux de r\u00e9unions qui ont men\u00e9 \u00e0 l'\u00e9laboration de ces documents. Je crois que c'est pour le processus dans son entier, du d\u00e9but \u00e0 la fin, que nous avons not\u00e9 le manque d'efficacit\u00e9 du Cabinet \u00e0 r\u00e9pondre aux questions qui se posaient: Quels sont les risques? Quels sont les avantages? Quelles sont les lacunes en mati\u00e8re de collecte de renseignement? En quoi l'\u00e9valuation est-elle d\u00e9ficiente? Pourrions-nous apporter une plus grande contribution \u00e0 l'alliance?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934424\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous avions donc l'impression que nous aurions d\u00fb pouvoir compter sur une gamme d'information de meilleure qualit\u00e9 pour \u00e9valuer le rendement de l'appareil de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 et du renseignement.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/rennie-marcoux-1/",
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"source_id": "10623378",
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},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:40:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Michel Picard",
"fr": "M. Michel Picard"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934425\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934425\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/michel-picard-4/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/michel-picard/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4326/",
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "10623381",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
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{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:40:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": "Le pr\u00e9sident"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934426\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you, Mr. Picard.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934427\" data-originallang=\"en\">We'll hear from Mr. Paul-Hus for seven minutes, please.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934426\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci, monsieur Picard.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934427\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous passons \u00e0 M. Paul-Hus pour les sept prochaines minutes.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/the-chair-3/",
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"source_id": "10623382",
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},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:40:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (Charlesbourg\u2014Haute-Saint-Charles, CPC)",
"fr": "M. Pierre Paul-Hus (Charlesbourg\u2014Haute-Saint-Charles, PCC)"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934428\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934429\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Thank you, Mr. McGuinty and Ms. Marcoux. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934430\" data-originallang=\"fr\">On page 26 of your report, paragraph 66, you talk about espionage and foreign influence.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934431\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Do you consider election campaigns, such as for the election coming up, to be a national security issue?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934428\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Merci, monsieur le pr\u00e9sident.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934429\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Merci, monsieur McGuinty et madame Marcoux.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934430\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Dans la version fran\u00e7aise de votre rapport, au paragraphe 66 de la page 29, vous parlez d'espionnage et d'influence \u00e9trang\u00e8re.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934431\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Lorsqu'on parle d'\u00e9lections, des \u00e9lections \u00e0 venir entre autres, consid\u00e9rez-vous qu'une campagne \u00e9lectorale est un enjeu de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale?</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/pierre-paul-hus-1/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/pierre-paul-hus/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4419/",
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "10623383",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:40:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. David McGuinty",
"fr": "L\u2019hon. David McGuinty"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934432\" data-originallang=\"fr\">NSICOP has not yet looked deeply into the whole matter of the integrity of elections, specifically the one coming up. </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934432\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Le CPSNR n'a pas examin\u00e9 de fa\u00e7on approfondie la question de tout ce qui touche l'int\u00e9grit\u00e9 \u00e9lectorale, notamment des prochaines \u00e9lections.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/david-mcguinty-4/",
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"procedural": false,
"source_id": "10623384",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:40:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus",
"fr": "M. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934433\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Do you feel that foreign interference in elections is a matter of national security? In paragraphs 66 and 67, you say that Russia and China are two countries known to be major players in political interference. You also talk about activities designed to influence political parties as well. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934434\" data-originallang=\"fr\">It is mentioned in your report. It is a known fact. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934435\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Is NSICOP currently in a position to take measures to help stop the Chinese Communist Party trying to interfere in the coming election campaign?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934433\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Consid\u00e9rez-vous que l'aspect de l'ing\u00e9rence possible dans les \u00e9lections soit un enjeu de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale? Aux paragraphes 66 et 67, vous mentionnez que la Russie et la Chine sont deux pays reconnus comme \u00e9tant des acteurs importants de l'ing\u00e9rence politique, et vous parlez d'activit\u00e9s d'influence visant les partis politiques \u00e9galement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934434\" data-originallang=\"fr\">C'est mentionn\u00e9 dans votre rapport, c'est un fait reconnu.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934435\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Le CPSNR est-il actuellement capable de prendre des mesures pour aider \u00e0 emp\u00eacher le Parti communiste chinois de tenter de se livrer \u00e0 des activit\u00e9s d'ing\u00e9rence \u00e0 l'occasion de la prochaine campagne \u00e9lectorale? </p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/pierre-paul-hus-2/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/pierre-paul-hus/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4419/",
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "10623386",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:40:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. David McGuinty",
"fr": "L\u2019hon. David McGuinty"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934436\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Let me be clear on two things.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934437\" data-originallang=\"fr\">We included Russia and China in the report because we relied on open sources. So that is what was repeated there. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934438\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Then, we announced that one of the reviews that we will be doing in 2019 is about foreign interference. Eventually, we will have much more to say about it. </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934436\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Je veux pr\u00e9ciser deux choses.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934437\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Nous avons fait \u00e9tat de la Russie et de la Chine dans le rapport parce que nous nous sommes fi\u00e9s \u00e0 des sources ouvertes. C'est donc ce qui y a \u00e9t\u00e9 r\u00e9p\u00e9t\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934438\" data-originallang=\"fr\">De plus, nous avons annonc\u00e9 que l'une des revues que nous entreprenons en 2019 touche la question de l'ing\u00e9rence \u00e9trang\u00e8re. \u00c9ventuellement, nous aurons beaucoup plus \u00e0 dire sur ce sujet.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/david-mcguinty-5/",
"politician_url": null,
"politician_membership_url": null,
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "10623388",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:40:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus",
"fr": "M. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934439\" data-originallang=\"fr\">So clearly, we will not have the information before the next campaign. Is that right?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934439\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Nous n'aurons \u00e9videmment pas l'information avant la prochaine campagne. N'est-ce pas?</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/pierre-paul-hus-3/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/pierre-paul-hus/",
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"procedural": false,
"source_id": "10623394",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. David McGuinty",
"fr": "L\u2019hon. David McGuinty"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934440\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Probably not.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934440\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Probablement pas.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/david-mcguinty-6/",
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"procedural": false,
"source_id": "10623397",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus",
"fr": "M. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934441\" data-originallang=\"fr\">When you undertook the study on the trip the <a data-HoCid=\"214296\" href=\"/politicians/justin-trudeau/\" title=\"Justin Trudeau\">Prime Minister</a> took to India, it was likely because a matter of national security would normally be involved. Is that correct?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934441\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Lorsque vous avez entrepris l'\u00e9tude au sujet du voyage du <a data-HoCid=\"214296\" href=\"/politicians/justin-trudeau/\" title=\"Justin Trudeau\">premier ministre</a> en Inde, c'\u00e9tait parce que, normalement, il devait y avoir une question de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale en jeu, est-ce bien le cas?</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/pierre-paul-hus-4/",
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"procedural": false,
"source_id": "10623398",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. David McGuinty",
"fr": "L\u2019hon. David McGuinty"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934442\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Yes.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934442\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Oui.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/david-mcguinty-7/",
"politician_url": null,
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"procedural": false,
"source_id": "10623399",
"document_url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/"
},
{
"time": "2019-05-13 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus",
"fr": "M. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934443\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> <a data-HoCid=\"214300\" href=\"/politicians/ralph-goodale/\" title=\"Ralph Goodale\">Minister Goodale</a> appeared before this committee during the hearings on Bill <a data-HoCid=\"9057418\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-59/\" title=\"An Act respecting national security matters\">C-59</a>, I believe. At that time, he told us that he could not answer certain questions because it was a matter of national security. After that, in the House of Commons, Minister Goodale said the opposite. Daniel Jean also testified before our committee that it was not a matter of national security.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934444\" data-originallang=\"fr\">In your opinion, is it a matter of national security?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"5934443\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Le <a data-HoCid=\"214300\" href=\"/politicians/ralph-goodale/\" title=\"Ralph Goodale\">ministre Goodale</a> a comparu devant ce comit\u00e9 lors des s\u00e9ances portant sur le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"9057418\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-59/\" title=\"An Act respecting national security matters\">C-59</a>, je crois. \u00c0 ce moment-l\u00e0, il nous a dit qu'il ne pouvait pas r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 certaines questions parce qu'il s'agissait d'un sujet li\u00e9 \u00e0 la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale. Par la suite, \u00e0 la Chambre des communes, le ministre Goodale a dit le contraire. M. Daniel Jean a aussi t\u00e9moign\u00e9 devant notre comit\u00e9 pour dire que ce n'\u00e9tait pas une question de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"5934444\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Selon vous, s'agit-il d'un enjeu de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 nationale?</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/public-safety/42-1/162/pierre-paul-hus-5/",
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