Speeches

{
    "objects": [
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:30:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "The Chair (Mr. Kevin Sorenson (Crowfoot, CPC))",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700197\" data-originallang=\"en\">I call the meeting to order.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700198\" data-originallang=\"en\">Good afternoon, everyone.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700199\" data-originallang=\"en\"> This is meeting number 23 of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security on Thursday, February 9, 2012. This afternoon we're beginning our study on an agreed-to topic from our first meeting of this year.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700200\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I'll read that motion for members. It was agreed that \u201cthe Committee undertake a study, for no less than eight meetings, of the use of electronic monitoring in both a corrections and conditional release setting, as well as an immigration enforcement setting, with a view to determining effectiveness, cost efficiency, and implementation readiness\u201d.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700201\" data-originallang=\"en\">In our first hour today, our witness is appearing by video conference from Glasgow in the United Kingdom. Appearing as an individual is Mr. Mike Nellis, emeritus professor of criminal and community justice at the University of Strathclyde School of Law.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700202\" data-originallang=\"en\">I understand, sir, that you have an opening statement in regard to our motion and our topic. We welcome you to make your statement at this time. That will be followed, if it is all right with you, with a couple of rounds of questions from all three political parties represented here.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700203\" data-originallang=\"en\">Welcome, sir. You can begin your opening statement.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700197\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je d\u00e9clare la s\u00e9ance ouverte.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700198\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bonjour \u00e0 tous.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700199\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le Comit\u00e9 permanent de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 publique et nationale entame sa 23<sup>e</sup> s\u00e9ance en ce jeudi 9 f\u00e9vrier 2012. Cet apr\u00e8s-midi, nous amor\u00e7ons notre \u00e9tude sur un sujet sur lequel nous nous sommes tous entendus lors de notre premi\u00e8re s\u00e9ance de l'ann\u00e9e.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700200\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vais vous lire la motion en question. Il a \u00e9t\u00e9 convenu que \u00ab le comit\u00e9 \u00e9tudie, pendant un minimum de huit s\u00e9ances, l'utilisation de la surveillance \u00e9lectronique \u00e0 la fois dans le contexte du syst\u00e8me correctionnel et de la mise en libert\u00e9 sous condition et dans le domaine de l'immigration en vue d'en d\u00e9terminer l'efficacit\u00e9, la rentabilit\u00e9, la mise en oeuvre et l'\u00e9tat de pr\u00e9paration \u00bb.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700201\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pour la premi\u00e8re heure de la s\u00e9ance, nous accueillons, \u00e0 titre personnel, M. Mike Nellis, professeur \u00e9m\u00e9rite de justice p\u00e9nale et communautaire \u00e0 la facult\u00e9 de droit de l'Universit\u00e9 de Strathclyde. Il se joint \u00e0 nous par vid\u00e9oconf\u00e9rence depuis Glasgow, au Royaume-Uni.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700202\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur, je crois savoir que vous avez une d\u00e9claration liminaire sur le sujet de notre \u00e9tude. Je vous invite donc \u00e0 la faire d\u00e8s maintenant, apr\u00e8s quoi, si vous nous le permettez, nous passerons \u00e0 la p\u00e9riode de questions des d\u00e9put\u00e9s des trois partis politiques repr\u00e9sent\u00e9s ici.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700203\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur, nous vous souhaitons la bienvenue. La parole est \u00e0 vous.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/the-chair-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/kevin-sorenson/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1244/",
            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "6552246",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:30:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Dr. Mike Nellis (Emeritus Professor, Criminal and Community Justice, University of Strathclyde, School of Law, As an Individual)",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700204\" data-originallang=\"en\">Good afternoon, Mr. Sorenson. Thank you for that welcome.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700205\" data-originallang=\"en\">Although I'm speaking from Glasgow, I am going to talk to you about electronic monitoring in England and Wales rather than in Scotland. As I'm sure you're aware, they are two separate jurisdictions and they use electronic monitoring in slightly different ways. Scotland uses it on a proportionately smaller scale and hasn't used it in as diverse a way as England and Wales has used it.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700206\" data-originallang=\"en\">England and Wales started using electronic monitoring in 1989. It was the first European country to pilot electronic monitoring, the first European country to take up the American practice of electronic monitoring, as it seemed at the time.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700207\" data-originallang=\"en\">I've been interested in it since then, although for the first six years of my interest in it I was actually hostile to it, as were most people with a probation background. I changed my mind in 1996, more for ethical reasons than for empirical ones, because I had come to the conclusion that we ought to experiment with new forms of offender control in the probation service, the better to reduce the use of custody.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700208\" data-originallang=\"en\">Using some statistics from June 2011, I can say that since 1999 nearly three-quarters of a million people have been subject to electronic monitoring in England and Wales, and 760,000 people have been monitored with electronic monitoring. This is largely the conventional and commonest form of electronic monitoring, radio frequency, and it is used to monitor people's presence at home. It's a form of house arrest, a form of home detention. It's the largest scheme in Europe. Other European countries are using electronic monitoring quite regularly now, but no other country uses it quite as extensively as England and Wales has done.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700209\" data-originallang=\"en\">We've used it at all stages of the criminal justice system, from the bail at the pre-trial detention to post-release, and we've used it with both juveniles and adults. On any given day in England and Wales you will find 23,000 people who are subject to electronic monitoring: 34% of them are on bail, 52% are on a court-ordered community sentence, and 14% are released on licence from prison. The vast majority of those are short-sentence prisoners on an early release scheme, but some of the 14% are also much higher-risk offenders who are on parole.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700210\" data-originallang=\"en\">The use of electronic monitoring in England and Wales is increasing. There was a 10% increase in its use between 2010 and 2011. All the signs are that our government in England and Wales is committed to its continued expansion.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700211\" data-originallang=\"en\">What do we do well in England and Wales? We tend, by and large, to use electronic monitoring for just short periods, up to a maximum of 12 months for adults and up to six months for juveniles. We tend to limit the period of time during the day when someone can be subject to electronic monitoring to between two hours and twelve hours, and usually it's nearer twelve hours than two hours. The amount of daily confinement on electronic monitoring can be and often is much higher when you're on bail, meaning on a pre-trial detention scheme.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700212\" data-originallang=\"en\">All the pilot schemes in England and Wales were researched, except for its very small-scale use in parole, which has never been researched. When the pilot schemes were first researched, the studies all found sufficient evidence--not incontestable evidence, but sufficient evidence, in the government's eyes--to say that the measure was cost-effective enough to proceed further with it. By \u201ceffectiveness\u201d, they by and large meant compliance for the period of time that you were subject to electronic monitoring. The rates of compliance tended to be high; people did stay indoors as they were required to do, because they knew that the monitoring centre was in contact with their presence in the home.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700213\" data-originallang=\"en\">Only one piece of research has ever been undertaken in England and Wales to check whether electronic monitoring has any kind of post-completion effect and whether it affects recidivism over a longer period of time, meaning the standard two-year period that researchers tend to use. Unsurprisingly, it found that electronic monitoring was no different from any other measure in reducing recidivism when the age of the offender and criminal record of the offender were held constant.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700214\" data-originallang=\"en\">That should have been no surprise to anybody, because electronic monitoring as a technology is not by itself something that tries to change behaviour in the way, say, that probation tries to change offenders' behaviour by examining their attitudes and behaviour.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700215\" data-originallang=\"en\">At best, electronic monitoring works by deterrence, and we know from a raft of research that deterrence by itself is a pretty poor way of trying to change one's behaviour. The cost of electronic monitoring is actually a complicated thing to work out when you look at government's expenditure on it. We deal with the private sector to deliver this service in England and Wales, and the price of electronic monitoring has varied over the years, very crudely put, in terms of the amount of bulk buying that the government has done with the companies. I'm not going to talk too much in detail about that, because it takes a long time to talk about it.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700216\" data-originallang=\"en\">What I am clear about is that the governments regard electronic monitoring as value for money. We have a body called the National Audit Office in England and Wales. It did a very thorough study of community penalties and the early release scheme and concluded that both of them, particularly the early release scheme, were undoubtedly measures that saved the criminal justice system significant millions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700217\" data-originallang=\"en\">Electronic monitoring is embedded in the criminal justice system in England and Wales largely because it is deemed to be a cost-effective measure. Now, one can argue about that. I'm not saying that I necessarily accept that conclusion, but that is the view of the governments, and it cannot be said that they have not looked into the issue. They have produced publicly available documents about the expenditure on electronic monitoring and they're satisfied that the expense is justifiable.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700218\" data-originallang=\"en\">What don't we do so well? Well, in England and Wales the use of electronic monitoring is largely a stand-alone measure. Electronic monitoring by itself is not integrated into other measures, such as probation or other rehabilitative packages that you might use with offenders in the community.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700219\" data-originallang=\"en\">The use of stand-alone electronic monitoring might be a defensible thing for people on bail, who innocent until proven guilty, and there is no justification for trying to change their behaviour at that stage of the criminal justice process. We have had a crisis of remand imprisonments, and using electronic monitoring to address the problem of the excessive use of remands into custody is probably a good thing. In this situation it may defensible to use it as a stand-alone measure for bail.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700220\" data-originallang=\"en\">However, when it comes to using stand-alone electronic monitoring as a community penalty, despite the best intentions of the government 20 years ago to use it as a high-tariff penalty, it has become a low-tariff penalty, and it's not a significant means of reducing the use of prison when you use it low tariff, by itself, on people who might otherwise have got another community penalty or a fine.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700221\" data-originallang=\"en\">Stand-alone measures of electronic monitoring may also be defensible as a means of early release, depending on what you think the purpose of early release is. Is it a way of easing the reintegration of the prisoner back into society, or is it just a quick and cheap way of getting people out of prison to save money? I think, by and large, that we have used it as a quick and cheap way of getting people out of custody slightly earlier than they would otherwise have gotten out. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700222\" data-originallang=\"en\">We have had arguments about early release. If we let people out on early release on electronic monitoring, should we not also be providing some kind of supportive service to them? At the moment, we don't provide that supportive service, and I think people are left to draw the conclusion that what's going on is primarily a very crude use of electronic monitoring to shave a few days, a few months\u2014minimum of 30 days, maximum of 135 days\u2014off a custodial sentence, which undoubtedly saves the government money, saves the prison service money, and enables the throughput of the prison system to be a bit greater than it might otherwise have been.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700223\" data-originallang=\"en\">The use of electronic monitoring for early release has been controversial in the media, because releasing prisoners early is always controversial. Some of the worst media coverage that we have had has been in relation to early release.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700224\" data-originallang=\"en\">We also have some integrated uses of electronic monitoring, and these are the kinds of uses that I prefer.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700225\" data-originallang=\"en\">We have an intensive support and surveillance package available for high-risk young offenders, of which electronic monitoring is one of half a dozen components. In principle, that's a good use of electronic monitoring. Although it adds an element of control that might not otherwise be there, the essential thrust of these packages is towards the rehabilitation and support of high-risk young offenders.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700226\" data-originallang=\"en\">We also use electronic monitoring in an integrated way when we use it with parole. It isn't mandatory on parole; it's a discretionary requirement in a parole licence, but with a number of high-risk offenders, including sex offenders, electronic monitoring can add something to the process of sustaining them in the community when they come out of prison.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700227\" data-originallang=\"en\">What I know about that I tend to know anecdotally, because that's the one aspect of electronic monitoring in England and Wales that has not been subject to a publicly available evaluation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700228\" data-originallang=\"en\">England and Wales use the private sector to deliver electronic monitoring. That was a political choice in 1996 and 1999. It was a political choice to run the 1989 pilots as well, but when we were thinking about making electronic monitoring into a national scheme, the British government decided it was going to stay with the private sector and not use the probation service to run electronic monitoring.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700229\" data-originallang=\"en\">As a result, electronic monitoring is delivered on five-year contracts to the justice ministry. Every five years we have a retendering exercise to see whether we'll change the private companies, which are currently G4S and Serco. We review every five years to see whether we want to change the companies or change the technology, and a retendering exercise is going on as we speak, at this moment in time. We are in one of those five-year periods now. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700230\" data-originallang=\"en\">The advantage of retendering from the government's point of view is that it can galvanize changes of practice by the private companies and it can generate competition and force them to keep the costs down.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700231\" data-originallang=\"en\">There are undoubtedly some good and decent people working in the private sector, and I have known many of them for a good number of years, but in my view, using the private sector as opposed to the probation service to deliver electronic monitoring has made the integration of electronic monitoring into rehabilitation packages more difficult than it might otherwise have been.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700232\" data-originallang=\"en\">In 2004 we had a very tragic case in England and Wales. A young man who was subject to one of these intensive supervision and support packages murdered someone in the course of a robbery. The resulting inquiry showed quite clearly that poor communication between the statutory agency and the private agency was a factor in why he managed to evade the kind of control that his particular sentence was supposed to subject him to.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700233\" data-originallang=\"en\">A couple of years after that, our probation inspectorate did its very first formal inspection of the arrangements we have for delivering electronic monitoring in England and Wales. It's an excellent report; it's one of the best reports you could read about how we operate electronic monitoring in England and Wales. It didn't have a brief, or a mandate, to question whether using the private sector was the right way to go about it, but in a very gentle civil service sort of way, it did question this arrangement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700234\" data-originallang=\"en\">We had a brief pilot of GPS tracking--that is, using satellites to track offenders--in 2004 to 2006. The pilot was targeted on sex offenders, as GPS often is, and on the group of people we call \u201cpersistent and prolific offenders\u201d in England and Wales. These are high-risk thieves, by and large. They are often drug users who steal on a very regular basis to support their habits. They may be people who are involved in violence on a very regular basis. Consistent and prolific offenders commit high amounts of volume crime, which it is in everybody's interest to see reduced very rapidly, particularly when people come out of prison and are likely to continue doing high-risk volume crime. We also used GPS tracking on young offenders in this 2004 to 2006 period. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700235\" data-originallang=\"en\">For a complicated set of reasons, we didn't continue with GPS. It was not because it was totally ineffective; there were anxieties at the time about the cost of GPS tracking, but the cost of GPS tracking is a lot less now than it was even in 2006. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700236\" data-originallang=\"en\">In any case, we didn't continue with GPS. I think it was the political intention of the government to continue with GPS when they started the pilot in 2004, but in 2006 they had changed their minds. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700237\" data-originallang=\"en\">However, even though that pilot was not continued, there are three small-scale pilot schemes using GPS running in England and Wales at the moment, all with persistent and prolific offenders. There's also a GPS scheme that is used in the National Health Service to monitor the movements of patients from a secure psychiatric unit in South London when they leave the hospital for short periods of time.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700238\" data-originallang=\"en\">The use of electronic monitoring in respect of immigration is not great in England and Wales. I'm not even certain at this moment whether or not it is actually being used. A pilot scheme was run in parallel to the GPS tracking scheme in 2004-2006, and all three available electronic monitoring technologies were used in that pilot\u2014ordinary radio frequency, home detention, GPS, and voice verification\u2014but whatever research was done into that, the research was never made publicly available. I heard that the numbers were very low and that there was nothing significant to say.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700239\" data-originallang=\"en\">What I also heard was that it was being used to give asylum seekers a reason for not travelling very great distances to the reporting centre they would otherwise have to report to pending deportation from the country. It was a way of allowing asylum seekers and their families to stay at home and be monitored electronically, rather than travelling maybe 50 or 60 miles and having to arrange for bus and train fares.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700240\" data-originallang=\"en\">I have to say that I don't personally find that an objectionable use, but it has never become large scale. There was a lot of opposition to the use of it in the immigration sector from asylum seeker support groups, who were outraged that a measure they associated with the management of criminals was suddenly being applied to the management of asylum seekers. There is, in fact, no reason you can't use electronic monitoring in a variety of different contexts; nonetheless, it has an association with the management of criminals, and there is a slight symbolic difficulty in taking it out of that context and using it somewhere else.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700241\" data-originallang=\"en\">I have a lot of contact with European countries that do electronic monitoring and I'm firmly of the view that the country to learn from is Sweden. Sweden has been using electronic monitoring since 1996. It was the first fully national scheme in Europe, as opposed to the first pilot scheme, which was in England and Wales. The crucial difference between the way the Swedes do it compared to England and Wales is that they integrated it into their probation service from the outset and they've only ever used electronic monitoring as part of an integrated rehabilitation package.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700242\" data-originallang=\"en\">They use it very specifically as an alternative to a custodial sentence, and I think they're very clear about that. They use it with offenders who could have been given a custodial sentence but were given the option of serving that sentence in the community. These offenders have to have a job and are usually undergoing some kind of rehabilitation program in the community at the time they are subject to electronic monitoring.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700243\" data-originallang=\"en\">This project has been subject to a very impressive evaluation, with a very clear and robust methodology, and they showed they got very good results in using electronic monitoring. Modestly, they admit that they can't say for certain that electronic monitoring is the crucial ingredient that gives them the successful result of reduced recidivism. They are looking into that further, but any thoughtful reader of this research can't help but be encouraged about the potential of electronic monitoring in the context of an integrated program of work.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700244\" data-originallang=\"en\">In fact, this particular use of electronic monitoring in Sweden is not dissimilar from what Canada's James Bonta suggested might be worthwhile. After the research he did in 2000 on a very small sample, he suggested that electronic monitoring might be usable as a way of stabilizing the lives of offenders subject to a rehabilitation program and be sufficient to help them complete the program and get the benefit from it that they wouldn't get if they didn't complete the program.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700245\" data-originallang=\"en\">That was a very small\u2014</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700204\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bonjour, monsieur Sorenson. Je vous remercie de votre accueil.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700205\" data-originallang=\"en\">M\u00eame si je suis en \u00c9cosse, je vais plut\u00f4t vous parler de l'utilisation de la surveillance \u00e9lectronique en Angleterre et au pays de Galles. Comme vous le savez sans doute, il s'agit de deux administrations distinctes et leurs approches en mati\u00e8re de surveillance \u00e9lectronique sont l\u00e9g\u00e8rement diff\u00e9rentes. L'\u00c9cosse l'utilise \u00e0 plus petite \u00e9chelle et ses m\u00e9thodes sont moins diversifi\u00e9es qu'en Angleterre et au pays de Galles.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700206\" data-originallang=\"en\">La Grande-Bretagne a commenc\u00e9 \u00e0 utiliser la surveillance \u00e9lectronique en 1989. \u00c0 l'\u00e9poque, c'\u00e9tait le premier pays europ\u00e9en \u00e0 embo\u00eeter le pas aux \u00c9tats-Unis et \u00e0 lancer un projet pilote de surveillance \u00e9lectronique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700207\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je me suis int\u00e9ress\u00e9 \u00e0 cette technologie d\u00e8s le d\u00e9part, bien que pendant les six premi\u00e8res ann\u00e9es, je n'y \u00e9tais pas du tout favorable, comme la plupart des gens qui ont travaill\u00e9 dans le domaine de la probation. Je me suis ravis\u00e9 en 1996, davantage pour des raisons \u00e9thiques qu'empiriques, parce que j'en suis venu \u00e0 la conclusion qu'il fallait essayer de nouvelles formes de surveillance des d\u00e9linquants dans le cadre de leur probation afin d'avoir moins recours \u00e0 la d\u00e9tention.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700208\" data-originallang=\"en\">D'apr\u00e8s des statistiques qui datent de juin 2011, je peux affirmer que depuis 1999, pr\u00e8s de 760 000 personnes ont fait l'objet d'une surveillance \u00e9lectronique en Grande-Bretagne. La radiofr\u00e9quence est la forme de surveillance \u00e9lectronique la plus courante, et on l'utilise pour s'assurer que les d\u00e9linquants respectent leurs conditions lorsqu'ils sont d\u00e9tenus \u00e0 domicile. C'est largement r\u00e9pandu en Europe. D'autres pays europ\u00e9ens en font aussi un usage assez courant, mais pas autant que la Grande-Bretagne.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700209\" data-originallang=\"en\">On a utilis\u00e9 la surveillance \u00e9lectronique \u00e0 toutes les \u00e9tapes du syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale, pendant la mise en libert\u00e9 sous caution avant le proc\u00e8s et m\u00eame apr\u00e8s la lib\u00e9ration, et ce, autant aupr\u00e8s des jeunes que des adultes. Chaque jour, en Grande-Bretagne, 23 000 d\u00e9linquants sont plac\u00e9s sous surveillance \u00e9lectronique: 34 p. 100 d'entre eux sont en libert\u00e9 sous caution, 52 p. 100 purgent une peine dans la communaut\u00e9 impos\u00e9e par le tribunal, et 14 p. 100 sont lib\u00e9r\u00e9s en vertu d'un permis. La grande majorit\u00e9 de ces d\u00e9linquants ont purg\u00e9 une courte peine d'emprisonnement et ont b\u00e9n\u00e9fici\u00e9 d'une lib\u00e9ration anticip\u00e9e, mais certains d'entre eux sont des d\u00e9linquants \u00e0 risque \u00e9lev\u00e9 en libert\u00e9 conditionnelle.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700210\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le recours \u00e0 la surveillance \u00e9lectronique en Grande-Bretagne est \u00e0 la hausse. Son utilisation s'est accrue de 10 p. 100 entre 2010 et 2011. Tout indique que notre gouvernement veut poursuivre dans cette voie.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700211\" data-originallang=\"en\">Qu'est-ce qui fonctionne bien en Grande-Bretagne? En g\u00e9n\u00e9ral, nous utilisons la surveillance \u00e9lectronique sur de courtes p\u00e9riodes, jusqu'\u00e0 un maximum de 12 mois pour les adultes et de six mois pour les d\u00e9linquants juv\u00e9niles. Nous limitons le nombre d'heures auxquelles une personne est plac\u00e9e sous surveillance \u00e9lectronique. Cela peut varier entre deux et douze heures, mais c'est habituellement plus pr\u00e8s des douze heures. La d\u00e9tention \u00e0 domicile sous surveillance \u00e9lectronique est plus fr\u00e9quente aupr\u00e8s des personnes en libert\u00e9 sous caution, c'est-\u00e0-dire avant leur proc\u00e8s.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700212\" data-originallang=\"en\">Tous les projets pilotes men\u00e9s en Grande-Bretagne ont fait l'objet de recherches, sauf dans le contexte des lib\u00e9rations conditionnelles, pour lesquelles on n'a utilis\u00e9 que tr\u00e8s peu la surveillance \u00e9lectronique. D\u00e8s le d\u00e9part, le gouvernement a estim\u00e9 qu'il y avait suffisamment de preuves \u2014 mais pas incontestables \u2014 indiquant que la mesure \u00e9tait rentable et efficace. Par \u00ab efficacit\u00e9 \u00bb, on parle du respect des conditions durant la p\u00e9riode au cours de laquelle les d\u00e9linquants sont soumis \u00e0 la surveillance \u00e9lectronique. Les taux de conformit\u00e9 \u00e9taient assez \u00e9lev\u00e9s; les gens restaient \u00e0 la maison comme ils le devaient, parce qu'ils savaient que le centre de surveillance \u00e9tait de toute fa\u00e7on en contact avec eux.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700213\" data-originallang=\"en\">Une seule \u00e9tude a \u00e9t\u00e9 entreprise en Grande-Bretagne pour v\u00e9rifier si la surveillance \u00e9lectronique avait une quelconque incidence apr\u00e8s son utilisation, en particulier sur les r\u00e9cidivistes potentiels, sur une plus longue p\u00e9riode, c'est-\u00e0-dire deux ans. On ne s'\u00e9tonne pas d'apprendre que la surveillance \u00e9lectronique n'\u00e9tait pas diff\u00e9rente des autres mesures visant \u00e0 r\u00e9duire le r\u00e9cidivisme lorsque l'\u00e2ge du d\u00e9linquant et son casier judiciaire demeuraient constants.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700214\" data-originallang=\"en\">Personne ne devrait s'en \u00e9tonner, puisque la surveillance \u00e9lectronique est une technologie qui ne permet pas en soi de modifier un comportement comme le ferait, par exemple, la probation, o\u00f9 l'on examine l'attitude et le comportement des d\u00e9linquants. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700215\" data-originallang=\"en\">Au mieux, la surveillance \u00e9lectronique est un moyen de dissuasion et, d'apr\u00e8s de nombreuses \u00e9tudes, nous savons que la dissuasion \u00e0 elle seule ne contribue aucunement \u00e0 changer le comportement d'une personne. Par ailleurs, il est difficile de savoir le co\u00fbt r\u00e9el de la surveillance \u00e9lectronique lorsqu'on examine les d\u00e9penses du gouvernement \u00e0 ce chapitre. Je sais qu'en Grande-Bretagne, nous faisons affaire avec le secteur priv\u00e9, et que les co\u00fbts ont vari\u00e9 au cours des ann\u00e9es selon la quantit\u00e9 achet\u00e9e. Je ne vais pas entrer dans les d\u00e9tails, parce que c'est assez long \u00e0 expliquer.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700216\" data-originallang=\"en\">Chose certaine, le gouvernement consid\u00e8re la surveillance \u00e9lectronique comme un investissement rentable. En Grande-Bretagne, il y a un organisme, le National Audit Office, qui a men\u00e9 une \u00e9tude approfondie sur les peines communautaires et le programme de mise en libert\u00e9 anticip\u00e9e. Il a conclu que ces deux mesures, particuli\u00e8rement le programme de mise en libert\u00e9 anticip\u00e9e, avaient fait \u00e9pargner des millions de dollars au syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700217\" data-originallang=\"en\">La surveillance \u00e9lectronique fait d\u00e9sormais partie int\u00e9grante du syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale en Grande-Bretagne, principalement parce qu'elle est consid\u00e9r\u00e9e comme une mesure rentable. \u00c9videmment, c'est discutable. Je ne dis pas que j'appuie n\u00e9cessairement cette conclusion, mais c'est l'avis du gouvernement, et on ne peut pas dire qu'il ne s'est pas pench\u00e9 sur la question. Le gouvernement a rendu publics des documents sur ses d\u00e9penses en mati\u00e8re de surveillance \u00e9lectronique et semble convaincu que la d\u00e9pense est justifi\u00e9e.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700218\" data-originallang=\"en\">Qu'est-ce qui fonctionne moins bien en Grande-Bretagne? La surveillance \u00e9lectronique est souvent utilis\u00e9e toute seule. Elle n'est pas int\u00e9gr\u00e9e \u00e0 d'autres \u00e9l\u00e9ments, comme un programme de probation ou d'autres mesures de r\u00e9habilitation que l'on pourrait utiliser aupr\u00e8s des d\u00e9linquants dans la communaut\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700219\" data-originallang=\"en\">La surveillance \u00e9lectronique \u00e0 elle seule pourrait \u00eatre une bonne chose dans le cas des personnes en libert\u00e9 sous caution, qui sont pr\u00e9sum\u00e9es innocentes jusqu'\u00e0 preuve du contraire, et o\u00f9 il n'est pas justifi\u00e9 d'essayer de changer leur comportement \u00e0 cette \u00e9tape du processus. Nous avons d\u00e9j\u00e0 abus\u00e9 des d\u00e9tentions pr\u00e9ventives. Le recours \u00e0 la surveillance \u00e9lectronique pourrait donc permettre de rem\u00e9dier \u00e0 ce probl\u00e8me. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700220\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cependant, lorsqu'il s'agit d'imposer strictement la surveillance \u00e9lectronique comme sanction communautaire, malgr\u00e9 les meilleures intentions du gouvernement il y a 20 ans pour utiliser cette m\u00e9thode comme une sanction lourde, elle est plut\u00f4t devenue une sanction l\u00e9g\u00e8re et, par le fait m\u00eame, ne devrait pas remplacer l'incarc\u00e9ration dans le cas des d\u00e9linquants qui se seraient vu autrement infliger une autre sanction communautaire ou une amende. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700221\" data-originallang=\"en\">On pourrait d\u00e9fendre cette pratique dans le contexte de la mise en libert\u00e9 anticip\u00e9e, selon la d\u00e9finition que vous en donnez. Est-ce un moyen de faciliter la r\u00e9insertion sociale du d\u00e9tenu ou plut\u00f4t une fa\u00e7on rapide de se d\u00e9barrasser d'un d\u00e9tenu pour \u00e9conomiser de l'argent? Dans l'ensemble, je pense qu'on retient la deuxi\u00e8me d\u00e9finition; les personnes ont souvent \u00e9t\u00e9 lib\u00e9r\u00e9es trop t\u00f4t. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700222\" data-originallang=\"en\">On a fait valoir des arguments \u00e0 propos des personnes b\u00e9n\u00e9ficiant d'une lib\u00e9ration anticip\u00e9e sous surveillance \u00e9lectronique. Ne devrions-nous pas leur apporter une certaine forme de soutien? \u00c0 l'heure actuelle, nous n'offrons rien de cela et, pour cette raison, j'estime que les gens vont percevoir la surveillance \u00e9lectronique comme un moyen de gagner quelques jours, voire quelques mois \u2014 un minimum de 30 jours et un maximum de 135 jours \u2014 en dehors de la prison, ce qui permet sans aucun doute au gouvernement de r\u00e9aliser des \u00e9conomies consid\u00e9rables et de d\u00e9sengorger le syst\u00e8me carc\u00e9ral. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700223\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le recours \u00e0 la surveillance \u00e9lectronique aupr\u00e8s des d\u00e9linquants en libert\u00e9 anticip\u00e9e a suscit\u00e9 une vive controverse dans les m\u00e9dias, car, d'une fa\u00e7on ou d'une autre, on a toujours contest\u00e9 le fait de rel\u00e2cher des d\u00e9tenus plus t\u00f4t que pr\u00e9vu. Les pires critiques que nous avons re\u00e7ues relativement \u00e0 la surveillance \u00e9lectronique sont li\u00e9es \u00e0 la mise en libert\u00e9 anticip\u00e9e.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700224\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il arrive aussi qu'on int\u00e8gre la surveillance \u00e9lectronique \u00e0 d'autres mesures, et c'est ce genre d'utilisation que je pr\u00e9conise.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700225\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous avons un programme intensif de soutien et de surveillance \u00e0 l'intention des jeunes contrevenants \u00e0 risque \u00e9lev\u00e9, et la surveillance \u00e9lectronique en fait partie. Dans ce cas, en principe, on en fait une bonne utilisation. Bien qu'on ajoute un certain \u00e9l\u00e9ment de surveillance, l'objectif essentiel de ces mesures vise la r\u00e9habilitation et le soutien des jeunes contrevenants \u00e0 risque \u00e9lev\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700226\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous l'int\u00e9grons \u00e9galement \u00e0 d'autres mesures dans le contexte de la lib\u00e9ration conditionnelle. La surveillance \u00e9lectronique n'est pas obligatoire dans ce cas; c'est une exigence discr\u00e9tionnaire pr\u00e9vue dans le certificat de lib\u00e9ration conditionnelle, mais pour certains d\u00e9linquants \u00e0 risque \u00e9lev\u00e9 lib\u00e9r\u00e9s dans la communaut\u00e9, y compris des d\u00e9linquants sexuels, la surveillance \u00e9lectronique peut apporter quelque chose au processus de soutien.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700227\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce que je sais \u00e0 ce sujet, je le sais d'apr\u00e8s mon exp\u00e9rience, puisque cet aspect de la surveillance \u00e9lectronique n'a pas fait l'objet d'un rapport public d'\u00e9valuation au pays. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700228\" data-originallang=\"en\">En Grande-Bretagne, on fait appel au secteur priv\u00e9 pour la prestation des services de surveillance \u00e9lectronique. C'est un choix politique qu'on a fait en 1996 et en 1999. La r\u00e9alisation des projets pilotes en 1989 \u00e9tait \u00e9galement un choix politique, mais lorsqu'on a envisag\u00e9 d'utiliser la surveillance \u00e9lectronique \u00e0 l'\u00e9chelle nationale, le gouvernement britannique a d\u00e9cid\u00e9 qu'il allait continuer de faire affaire avec le secteur priv\u00e9 plut\u00f4t que de confier cette mesure au service de probation. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700229\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le minist\u00e8re de la Justice accorde des contrats \u00e0 des entreprises priv\u00e9es, qui sont actuellement G4S et Serco, puis tous les cinq ans, on lance un nouvel appel d'offres pour d\u00e9terminer si on continuera de faire affaire avec ces entreprises ou d'utiliser cette technologie. Au moment o\u00f9 l'on se parle, un appel d'offres est en cours. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700230\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le gouvernement est d'avis qu'en lan\u00e7ant de nouveaux appels d'offres, il suscite des changements dans la pratique des entreprises priv\u00e9es et favorise la concurrence, ce qui oblige les entreprises \u00e0 maintenir les co\u00fbts \u00e0 un faible niveau.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700231\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il y a sans aucun doute des personnes bonnes et honn\u00eates qui travaillent dans le secteur priv\u00e9, et j'en connais moi-m\u00eame beaucoup depuis plusieurs ann\u00e9es, mais selon moi, le fait de recourir au secteur priv\u00e9 plut\u00f4t qu'au service de probation a rendu l'int\u00e9gration de la surveillance \u00e9lectronique \u00e0 d'autres mesures de r\u00e9habilitation plus difficile qu'elle ne l'aurait \u00e9t\u00e9 autrement. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700232\" data-originallang=\"en\">En 2004, une trag\u00e9die est survenue en Grande-Bretagne. Un jeune homme qui \u00e9tait soumis \u00e0 l'un de ces programmes intensifs de supervision et de soutien a tu\u00e9 quelqu'un au cours d'un vol qualifi\u00e9. L'enqu\u00eate a r\u00e9v\u00e9l\u00e9 qu'une mauvaise communication entre l'organisme gouvernemental et l'organisme priv\u00e9 \u00e9tait un facteur dans sa tentative d'\u00e9vasion au contr\u00f4le auquel il \u00e9tait assujetti. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700233\" data-originallang=\"en\">Quelques ann\u00e9es plus tard, notre bureau d'inspection des probations a fait sa toute premi\u00e8re inspection officielle de nos ententes relatives \u00e0 la surveillance \u00e9lectronique en Grande-Bretagne. C'est un excellent rapport; l'un des meilleurs que vous pouvez lire sur le sujet. Son mandat ne consistait pas \u00e0 d\u00e9terminer si le recours au secteur priv\u00e9 \u00e9tait une bonne chose. Il a simplement remis en question cette entente, mais d'une fa\u00e7on tr\u00e8s polie.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700234\" data-originallang=\"en\">De 2004 \u00e0 2006, nous avons utilis\u00e9 le syst\u00e8me GPS dans le cadre d'un bref projet pilote afin de localiser les d\u00e9linquants. Le projet pilote ciblait les d\u00e9linquants sexuels, comme c'est souvent le cas avec le syst\u00e8me GPS, et le groupe de gens que l'on consid\u00e8re \u00ab d\u00e9linquants actifs et multir\u00e9cidivistes \u00bb en Grande-Bretagne. En g\u00e9n\u00e9ral, ce sont des cambrioleurs \u00e0 risque \u00e9lev\u00e9. Ce sont souvent des toxicomanes qui doivent voler pour satisfaire leurs besoins de consommation. Ce sont des gens qui vont avoir recours \u00e0 la violence de fa\u00e7on r\u00e9guli\u00e8re. Les d\u00e9linquants actifs et multir\u00e9cidivistes commettent un grand volume de crimes, qu'on aurait tous int\u00e9r\u00eat \u00e0 voir r\u00e9duire rapidement, surtout lorsque ces individus sortent de prison et risquent de perp\u00e9trer d'autres crimes \u00e0 risque \u00e9lev\u00e9. Nous avons \u00e9galement utilis\u00e9 cette m\u00e9thode aupr\u00e8s des jeunes d\u00e9linquants durant cette m\u00eame p\u00e9riode.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700235\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pour diverses raisons complexes, nous avons abandonn\u00e9 le projet. Ce n'\u00e9tait pas parce que c'\u00e9tait inefficace, mais plut\u00f4t parce qu'on s'inqui\u00e9tait des co\u00fbts reli\u00e9s au syst\u00e8me GPS. Toutefois, un syst\u00e8me GPS co\u00fbte beaucoup moins cher aujourd'hui qu'en 2006.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700236\" data-originallang=\"en\">De toute fa\u00e7on, nous avons abandonn\u00e9 l'emploi du GPS. Au d\u00e9but de l'exp\u00e9rience pilote, en 2004, c'\u00e9tait l'intention du gouvernement, je crois, de continuer de l'utiliser, mais, en 2006, il a chang\u00e9 d'id\u00e9e.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700237\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cependant, m\u00eame si cette exp\u00e9rience n'a pas eu de suite, trois petits projets pilotes employant le GPS se poursuivent actuellement en Angleterre et dans le pays de Galles. Ils visent les multir\u00e9cidivistes. Le National Health Service utilise \u00e9galement le GPS pour surveiller le d\u00e9placement des patients d'une unit\u00e9 psychiatrique s\u00e9curis\u00e9e de South London, lorsqu'ils quittent l'h\u00f4pital pour de courtes p\u00e9riodes.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700238\" data-originallang=\"en\">On n'utilise pas beaucoup la surveillance \u00e9lectronique de l'immigration en Angleterre et dans le pays de Galles. Je ne pourrais m\u00eame pas dire si, en ce moment, la pratique existe. Une exp\u00e9rience pilote a eu lieu en m\u00eame temps que celle de 2004-2006, qui employait le GPS, avec les trois moyens disponibles de surveillance \u00e9lectronique \u2014 radiofr\u00e9quences ordinaires, d\u00e9tention \u00e0 domicile, GPS, v\u00e9rification vocale \u2014, mais aucun r\u00e9sultat de la recherche n'a \u00e9t\u00e9 rendu public. J'ai entendu dire que les chiffres \u00e9taient tr\u00e8s petits et qu'on ne pouvait rien conclure de significatif.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700239\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'ai \u00e9galement entendu dire qu'on s'en servait pour soustraire les demandeurs d'asile \u00e0 l'obligation de parcourir de tr\u00e8s grandes distances jusqu'au centre auquel ils doivent se pr\u00e9senter en attendant leur d\u00e9portation du pays. On leur permet ainsi, \u00e0 eux et \u00e0 leurs familles, de rester \u00e0 la maison, sous surveillance \u00e9lectronique, plut\u00f4t que de parcourir 50 ou 60 milles, et d'\u00e9conomiser le prix des billets d'autobus et de train.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700240\" data-originallang=\"en\">Personnellement, je ne trouve pas cette utilisation r\u00e9pr\u00e9hensible, mais elle n'a jamais \u00e9t\u00e9 r\u00e9pandue \u00e0 une grande \u00e9chelle. Les groupes d'appui aux demandeurs d'asile s'y sont beaucoup oppos\u00e9s. L'application soudaine, \u00e0 leurs prot\u00e9g\u00e9s, d'une mesure qu'ils assimilaient \u00e0 la gestion des criminels les offusquait. En fait, rien ne s'oppose \u00e0 la mise sous surveillance \u00e9lectronique dans divers contextes; n\u00e9anmoins, il est difficile de la d\u00e9barrasser de ce stigmate. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700241\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'ai beaucoup de contacts dans les pays d'Europe qui utilisent la surveillance \u00e9lectronique et je suis convaincu que la Su\u00e8de offre un mod\u00e8le instructif. Ce pays l'utilise depuis 1996. C'est l\u00e0 qu'on a utilis\u00e9, pour la premi\u00e8re fois en Europe, un programme tout \u00e0 fait national, par opposition \u00e0 la premi\u00e8re exp\u00e9rience pilote anglo-galloise. La diff\u00e9rence essentielle entre les deux pays, c'est que la Su\u00e8de a int\u00e9gr\u00e9, d\u00e8s le d\u00e9but, ce programme dans son service de probation et qu'elle n'a utilis\u00e9 la mise sous surveillance \u00e9lectronique que dans le cadre d'un programme int\u00e9gr\u00e9 de r\u00e9adaptation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700242\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les Su\u00e9dois l'utilisent en remplacement de la prison, et ils ne s'en cachent pas. Ils l'appliquent aux d\u00e9linquants condamn\u00e9s \u00e0 la prison, mais \u00e0 qui on a offert de purger leur peine dans la collectivit\u00e9. Ces d\u00e9linquants doivent avoir un emploi et, habituellement, ils suivent un programme de r\u00e9adaptation dans la collectivit\u00e9 pendant leur mise sous surveillance \u00e9lectronique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700243\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce projet a subi une \u00e9valuation tr\u00e8s pouss\u00e9e, au moyen d'une m\u00e9thode tr\u00e8s claire et tr\u00e8s robuste, qui a r\u00e9v\u00e9l\u00e9 que cette surveillance donnait de tr\u00e8s bons r\u00e9sultats. Tr\u00e8s modestement, les Su\u00e9dois admettent ne pas pouvoir conclure avec certitude que le proc\u00e9d\u00e9 est l'ingr\u00e9dient qui permet de r\u00e9duire la r\u00e9cidive. Ils creusent la question, mais tout lecteur attentif ne pourra faire autrement que de se sentir encourag\u00e9 par les possibilit\u00e9s offertes dans le contexte d'un programme int\u00e9gr\u00e9 de travail.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700244\" data-originallang=\"en\">De fait, cette utilisation de la surveillance \u00e9lectronique en Su\u00e8de n'est pas fonci\u00e8rement diff\u00e9rente de ce qu'a pr\u00e9conis\u00e9 le Canadien James Bonta. Apr\u00e8s un travail de recherche effectu\u00e9 en 2000, sur un \u00e9chantillon tr\u00e8s petit, il a propos\u00e9 de se servir de la surveillance \u00e9lectronique pour stabiliser la vie des d\u00e9linquants, sous r\u00e9serve d'un programme de r\u00e9adaptation, et qu'elle pourrait suffire pour les aider \u00e0 aller jusqu'au bout du programme et \u00e0 en retirer les avantages dont ils ne pourraient pas profiter s'ils avaient laiss\u00e9 tomber. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700245\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'\u00e9tait un tr\u00e8s petit...</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/dr-mike-nellis-1/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552261",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:50:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "The Chair",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700246\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Nellis\u2014</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700246\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur Nellis...</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/the-chair-2/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/kevin-sorenson/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1244/",
            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "6552599",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:50:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Dr. Mike Nellis",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700247\" data-originallang=\"en\">That was a very small-scale piece of research\u2014</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700247\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'\u00e9tait un tr\u00e8s petit travail de recherche...</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/dr-mike-nellis-2/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552600",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:50:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "The Chair",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700248\" data-originallang=\"en\">We're right at about 17 minutes, and usually our opening statements are around 10 minutes. You are referencing right now Mr. James Bonta, who will be with us in half an hour or 45 minutes, so we will hear much from him.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700249\" data-originallang=\"en\">I know I have a number of members of Parliament who are getting very antsy. They want to ask you some questions and have time for that type of interaction as well. If we could have some concluding comments, we'd move to questions.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700248\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pr\u00e8s de 17 minutes se sont \u00e9coul\u00e9es et, habituellement, les d\u00e9clarations pr\u00e9liminaires prennent une dizaine de minutes. Vous faisiez allusion \u00e0 M. James Bonta, qui sera parmi nous dans 30 ou 45 minutes. Nous ne manquerons donc pas de l'entendre.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700249\" data-originallang=\"en\">Un certain nombre de nos membres commencent \u00e0 montrer des signes de tr\u00e8s grande impatience. Ils tiennent \u00e0 vous questionner et veulent avoir le temps de le faire. Si vous pouviez conclure, nous passerions aux questions.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/the-chair-3/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/kevin-sorenson/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1244/",
            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "6552601",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:50:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Dr. Mike Nellis",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700250\" data-originallang=\"en\">Okay, you can have some conclusions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700251\" data-originallang=\"en\">My conclusion from all of this is that electronic monitoring is worth trying as a means of adding value to what the probation service has traditionally tried to do with offenders. Use electronic monitoring in an integrated way, rather than a stand-alone way, except in special circumstances like bail.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700252\" data-originallang=\"en\">Home detention under electronic monitoring can be an onerous measure, and sometimes it's useful to have the support of a social worker or a probation officer to help someone get through the experience of electronic monitoring.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700253\" data-originallang=\"en\">Compliance rates with electronic monitoring can be high. It depends on both the efficacy of the surveillance technology and the swiftness and legitimacy of the response to any violation, and it also depends on the nature of the subsequent punishment. Although there isn't a lot of research worldwide to justify the use of GPS in empirical terms, I think GPS tracking does have a place with high-risk offenders, and I think the experiments that are currently being done with respect to persistent and prolific offenders are just as worthy of our attention as is its use with the more traditional group of offenders\u2014the sex offenders\u2014who are normally put in the frame for GPS tracking.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700254\" data-originallang=\"en\">That was all I wanted to say. Thank you very much.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700250\" data-originallang=\"en\">D'accord. Voici mes conclusions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700251\" data-originallang=\"en\">De ce qui pr\u00e9c\u00e8de, je conclus que la surveillance \u00e9lectronique vaut la peine d'\u00eatre essay\u00e9e comme moyen de valoriser davantage ce que le service de probation a traditionnellement essay\u00e9 de faire avec les d\u00e9linquants. La surveillance \u00e9lectronique fait partie d'un tout plut\u00f4t que d'\u00eatre une m\u00e9thode autonome, sauf dans des circonstances particuli\u00e8res comme la libert\u00e9 sous caution.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700252\" data-originallang=\"en\">La d\u00e9tention \u00e0 domicile sous surveillance \u00e9lectronique peut \u00eatre une mesure co\u00fbteuse, et, parfois, il est utile de compter sur l'appui d'un travailleur social ou d'un agent de probation pour aider l'individu surveill\u00e9 \u00e0 passer au travers de cette exp\u00e9rience.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700253\" data-originallang=\"en\">La surveillance \u00e9lectronique peut donner de tr\u00e8s bons r\u00e9sultats en ce qui concerne le respect de la loi. Cela d\u00e9pend \u00e0 la fois de l'efficacit\u00e9 de la technique de surveillance ainsi que de la s\u00e9v\u00e9rit\u00e9 et de la l\u00e9gitimit\u00e9 de la r\u00e9action \u00e0 toute infraction, puis de la nature des sanctions ult\u00e9rieures. Bien que, \u00e0 l'\u00e9chelle mondiale, il ne se fasse pas beaucoup de recherche pour justifier empiriquement l'emploi du GPS, je pense que la m\u00e9thode s'impose dans le cas des d\u00e9linquants qui pr\u00e9sentent un risque \u00e9lev\u00e9 de r\u00e9cidive et que les exp\u00e9riences en cours avec les multir\u00e9cidivistes m\u00e9ritent que nous nous y int\u00e9ressions autant qu'\u00e0 l'utilisation de la technique chez le groupe plus traditionnel des d\u00e9linquants sexuels, normalement cibl\u00e9s par la surveillance par GPS.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700254\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'\u00e9tait tout ce que je tenais \u00e0 dire. Merci beaucoup.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/dr-mike-nellis-3/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552603",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:50:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "The Chair",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700255\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you very much, Mr. Nellis. Yours is our lead-off testimony on this subject. You're the first person we've heard, and I thank you for the thorough, in-depth information you've given to us. You've helped us understand a little bit better the work in not just Scotland and Wales, but also Sweden and Europe.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700256\" data-originallang=\"en\">We're going to move to the government side initially. We'll ask Mr. Rathgeber to go ahead. You have seven minutes, please.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700255\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci beaucoup, monsieur Nellis. Votre t\u00e9moignage est le premier que nous entendons sur la question, et je vous remercie pour vos renseignements pr\u00e9cis et d\u00e9taill\u00e9s. Vous nous avez aid\u00e9s \u00e0 comprendre un peu mieux le travail qui se fait non seulement en \u00c9cosse et au pays de Galles, mais, \u00e9galement en Su\u00e8de et dans le reste de l'Europe.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700256\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je c\u00e8de la parole \u00e0 un d\u00e9put\u00e9 du parti minist\u00e9riel d'abord. Monsieur Rathgeber, veuillez commencer. Vous disposez de sept minutes.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/the-chair-4/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/kevin-sorenson/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1244/",
            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "6552617",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:50:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Brent Rathgeber (Edmonton\u2014St. Albert, CPC)",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700257\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700258\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you very much, Professor Nellis, for your expertise in this matter. Your expertise is needed, because I don't understand this system at all.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700259\" data-originallang=\"en\">You said that from 2004 to 2006, England and Wales experimented with GPS. In the time since and before then, what technology was employed? Is it simply that if an individual leaves a perimeter, some sort of alarm is signaled, and that alarm is monitored by a police office?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700260\" data-originallang=\"en\">If the technology isn't GPS, what is it?</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700257\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci, monsieur le pr\u00e9sident.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700258\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci, monsieur Nellis, de nous avoir bien \u00e9clair\u00e9s sur la question. J'ai besoin de vos lumi\u00e8res, parce que, pour ma part, je ne comprends pas du tout le syst\u00e8me.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700259\" data-originallang=\"en\">Vous dites que de 2004 \u00e0 2006 l'Angleterre et le pays de Galles ont essay\u00e9 l'emploi de la surveillance par GPS. Avant et depuis cette exp\u00e9rience, quelle \u00e9tait la technologie utilis\u00e9e? Est-ce que cela se r\u00e9sume simplement au fait que si un individu sort d'un certain p\u00e9rim\u00e8tre, une sorte d'alarme est d\u00e9clench\u00e9e et que cette alarme est entendue dans un poste de police?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700260\" data-originallang=\"en\">Si on n'utilise pas le GPS, quelle technique utilise-t-on?</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/brent-rathgeber-1/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/brent-rathgeber/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1170/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552624",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:55:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Dr. Mike Nellis",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700261\" data-originallang=\"en\">The technology is radio frequency technology. The offender wears a tag on his ankle, which sends out a signal to a transceiver installed in his home. The transceiver picks up a signal from the tag on the ankle and sends it to a monitoring centre, either by a telephone land line or by the cellphone system.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700262\" data-originallang=\"en\">There is a person in a monitoring centre who is able to know whether that transceiver is picking up a signal from the tag on the ankle or not. If the offender is supposed to be in the house, say, between 7:00 at night and 7:00 in the morning, then the monitoring centre will know whether he's there or not, because the tag on his ankle is sending a signal to the transceiver.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700263\" data-originallang=\"en\">If he leaves the house during the period that he's supposed to be there, or if he tries to remove the tag, the monitoring centre will know that happens.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700264\" data-originallang=\"en\">This technology is tried and proven.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700261\" data-originallang=\"en\">On utilise les radiofr\u00e9quences. Le d\u00e9linquant porte un bracelet \u00e0 la cheville, qui envoie un signal \u00e0 un \u00e9metteur-r\u00e9cepteur install\u00e9 chez lui. L'appareil renvoie le signal \u00e0 un centre de surveillance, soit par une ligne t\u00e9l\u00e9phonique ou par le r\u00e9seau de t\u00e9l\u00e9phonie cellulaire.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700262\" data-originallang=\"en\">Au centre de surveillance, quelqu'un est en mesure de d\u00e9terminer si l'\u00e9metteur-r\u00e9cepteur capte un signal du bracelet. Si le d\u00e9linquant est cens\u00e9 \u00eatre chez lui entre 19 heures et 7 heures, par exemple, le centre de surveillance saura qu'il a respect\u00e9 ces conditions, parce que le bracelet envoie un signal \u00e0 l'\u00e9metteur-r\u00e9cepteur.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700263\" data-originallang=\"en\">S'il sort de la maison pendant la p\u00e9riode o\u00f9 il est cens\u00e9 y rester ou s'il essaie de se d\u00e9barrasser du bracelet, le centre de surveillance l'apprend. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700264\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il s'agit d'une technique \u00e9prouv\u00e9e.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/dr-mike-nellis-4/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552665",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:55:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Brent Rathgeber",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700265\" data-originallang=\"en\">Okay, I understand that.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700266\" data-originallang=\"en\">Without GPS technology, this tag system with the radio frequency will allow the authorities to determine whether or not the individual is in his home, but if he's not in his home, absent GPS technology, they won't know where he is.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700267\" data-originallang=\"en\">Is that assumption correct?</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700265\" data-originallang=\"en\">D'accord. Je comprends.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700266\" data-originallang=\"en\">Sans GPS, ce syst\u00e8me de surveillance par radiofr\u00e9quences permettra aux autorit\u00e9s de d\u00e9terminer si l'individu \u00e9tait chez lui, mais s'il sort, personne ne saura o\u00f9 il va, faute de technologie GPS. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700267\" data-originallang=\"en\">Est-ce une hypoth\u00e8se juste?</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/brent-rathgeber-2/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/brent-rathgeber/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1170/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552688",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:55:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Dr. Mike Nellis",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700268\" data-originallang=\"en\">That is correct.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700269\" data-originallang=\"en\">RF technology merely pinpoints you in your own home. GPS technology can monitor you wherever you go.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700268\" data-originallang=\"en\">Oui.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700269\" data-originallang=\"en\">La technique des radiofr\u00e9quences permet seulement de localiser l'individu chez lui. Le GPS le suit partout. </p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/dr-mike-nellis-5/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552694",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:55:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Brent Rathgeber",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700270\" data-originallang=\"en\">Okay.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700271\" data-originallang=\"en\">I take it, obviously, that there's a huge cost differential between the radio frequency technology and the GPS technology. Is that why it was an abandoned experiment in 2006?</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700270\" data-originallang=\"en\">Tr\u00e8s bien.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700271\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bien s\u00fbr, j'imagine qu'entre la technique des radiofr\u00e9quences et le GPS, la diff\u00e9rence de co\u00fbt est \u00e9norme. Est-ce pour cette raison qu'on a abandonn\u00e9 l'exp\u00e9rimentation du GPS en 2006?</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/brent-rathgeber-3/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/brent-rathgeber/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1170/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552698",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:55:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Dr. Mike Nellis",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700272\" data-originallang=\"en\">That was a minor part of it.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700273\" data-originallang=\"en\"> In fact, the cost is not as great as people think. The American figure that's usually given is $5 a day for RF technology and $15 a day for GPS technology. Don't take those figures too seriously, but hold in mind that it's three times more expensive. GPS is usually about three times more expensive than RF, but both of them are cheaper now than they were four or five years ago.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700272\" data-originallang=\"en\">\u00c7'a eu peu \u00e0 voir avec la d\u00e9cision.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700273\" data-originallang=\"en\">De fait, la diff\u00e9rence de co\u00fbt n'est pas si grande qu'on le croirait. Les chiffres qu'on donne pour les \u00c9tats-Unis sont de 5 $ par jour pour les radiofr\u00e9quences et de 15 $ pour le GPS. Ne vous y attachez pas trop, mais rappelez-vous qu'ils sont dans le rapport de trois \u00e0 un. Le GPS est habituellement trois fois plus cher que les radiofr\u00e9quences, mais, dans les deux cas, les co\u00fbts ont beaucoup baiss\u00e9 depuis quatre ou cinq ans.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/dr-mike-nellis-6/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552702",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:55:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Brent Rathgeber",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700274\" data-originallang=\"en\">With regard to this tag that's applied to the individual, how is that installed and who installs it?</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700274\" data-originallang=\"en\">Comment installe-t-on le bracelet et qui l'installe?</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/brent-rathgeber-4/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/brent-rathgeber/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1170/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552707",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:55:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Dr. Mike Nellis",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700275\" data-originallang=\"en\">In England and Wales it is installed by the private sector, the private organization that is contracted to deliver the service to the government. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700276\" data-originallang=\"en\">Each day the court sends a fax to the private company to say who an electronic monitoring order has been made on, and the monitoring officer--or in some cases officers, because sometimes they go in twos\u2014goes to the person's house to fit the tag by the end of that day. If it is an early release from prison, the prison plans the release dates and they notify the private company. The private company installs the equipment and fixes the tag on the day the prisoner comes out. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700277\" data-originallang=\"en\">That's in England and Wales. In Sweden, a probation officer would do the installation.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700275\" data-originallang=\"en\">En Angleterre et dans le pays de Galles, l'installation est confi\u00e9e au priv\u00e9, \u00e0 une entreprise li\u00e9e par contrat, qui fournit le service \u00e0 l'\u00c9tat.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700276\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le tribunal lui signale quotidiennement, par t\u00e9l\u00e9copieur, le nom de personnes vis\u00e9es par une ordonnance de surveillance \u00e9lectronique, et l'agent ou les agents de surveillance, parce que, parfois, ils travaillent en bin\u00f4me, se rendent chez elles pour installer le bracelet avant la fin de la journ\u00e9e. Dans le cas d'une mise en libert\u00e9 anticip\u00e9e, les autorit\u00e9s carc\u00e9rales planifient les dates de lib\u00e9ration, puis avertissent l'entreprise, qui installe l'\u00e9quipement et le bracelet \u00e0 la date de sortie du prisonnier.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700277\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est ainsi que les choses se passent en Angleterre et dans le pays de Galles. En Su\u00e8de, l'installation est faite par l'agent de probation.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/dr-mike-nellis-7/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552708",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:55:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Brent Rathgeber",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700278\" data-originallang=\"en\">What does this tag look like? Is it the size of my wristwatch? Is it the size of an athletic ankle bracelet? How big is it? How invasive is it physically on the individual?</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700278\" data-originallang=\"en\">\u00c0 quoi ressemble le bracelet? Est-ce que c'est de la taille de ma montre-bracelet? D'un bracelet comme ceux que portent les sportifs? Quelle est sa taille? Sa visibilit\u00e9? </p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/brent-rathgeber-5/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/brent-rathgeber/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1170/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552729",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 15:55:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Dr. Mike Nellis",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700279\" data-originallang=\"en\">It's about as big as a big wristwatch. They tend to be grey plastic. I wish I had brought one with me. They're not particularly obtrusive any more. Your analogy of the wristwatch is quite accurate. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700280\" data-originallang=\"en\">The monitoring technology can be packaged into something quite small now, but the strap is an important piece of the technology because it's usually got an optical fibre in it. It is the breaking of the optical fibre that tells the monitoring company the tag has been tampered with. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700281\" data-originallang=\"en\">It isn't just the body of the tag; it can also be the strap that is important. Some companies make straps that have steel in them, so they're harder to remove.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700279\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est \u00e0 peu comme une montre-bracelet. C'est plut\u00f4t en plastique gris. J'aurais d\u00fb m'en munir d'un. Ils sont beaucoup plus l\u00e9gers maintenant. Votre analogie avec la montre-bracelet est tout \u00e0 fait juste.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700280\" data-originallang=\"en\">L'appareil prend tr\u00e8s peu de place, maintenant, mais la sangle est l'\u00e9l\u00e9ment important, parce qu'elle comporte habituellement une fibre optique. C'est la rupture de la fibre qui avertit les pr\u00e9pos\u00e9s \u00e0 la surveillance qu'on a alt\u00e9r\u00e9 le bracelet. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700281\" data-originallang=\"en\">L'important n'est pas seulement la partie \u00e9mettrice du bracelet; c'est \u00e9galement la sangle. Certaines sangles sont en parties faites d'acier, qui les rend plus difficiles \u00e0 enlever.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/dr-mike-nellis-8/",
            "politician_url": null,
            "politician_membership_url": null,
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552733",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
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        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 16:00:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "The Chair",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700282\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Rathgeber, go ahead.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700282\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur Rathgeber, poursuivez.</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/the-chair-5/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/kevin-sorenson/",
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            "procedural": true,
            "source_id": "6561737",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
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        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 16:00:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Mr. Brent Rathgeber",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700283\" data-originallang=\"en\">Is it generally worn on the wrist or the ankle, or somewhere else on the body? How difficult is it to remove?</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700283\" data-originallang=\"en\">Est-ce que, en g\u00e9n\u00e9ral, on porte le bracelet au poignet ou \u00e0 la cheville ou ailleurs, sur le corps? Est-il difficile \u00e0 enlever?</p>"
            },
            "url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/brent-rathgeber-6/",
            "politician_url": "/politicians/brent-rathgeber/",
            "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1170/",
            "procedural": false,
            "source_id": "6552742",
            "document_url": "/committees/public-safety/41-1/23/"
        },
        {
            "time": "2012-02-09 16:00:00",
            "attribution": {
                "en": "Dr. Mike Nellis",
                "fr": ""
            },
            "content": {
                "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700284\" data-originallang=\"en\">It is normally worn on the ankle because it was found that some people can manipulate their thumbs sufficiently to slip it off their wrist. If the tag is used on women offenders when they're pregnant and their ankles are prone to swelling up, there is a wrist version of it. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700285\" data-originallang=\"en\">The electronic tags used in Britain can be cut through with a pair of strong scissors. They can be removed very easily. We do that because of health and safety considerations. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700286\" data-originallang=\"en\">Some people rightly question whether there is sense in that, so the GPS tags that have been used in the current GPS pilots and for the pilot in the National Health Service are a different sort. They're not a plastic strap with an optical fibre, but a leather strap with a steel ring, and it would take a pair of industrial bolt cutters to cut through them. First of all your offender would have to get a pair of industrial bolt cutters, and it would still take him or her 20 minutes to cut through them, which would be a significant delay in breaking free of the tag. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700287\" data-originallang=\"en\">There isn't a simple and single answer to your question on how easily they can be removed because you can make tags and straps in different ways.</p>",
                "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2700284\" data-originallang=\"en\">On le fixe habituellement \u00e0 la cheville, parce qu'on a constat\u00e9 que certaines personnes pouvaient placer leur pouce d'une fa\u00e7on qui permettait de faire glisser le bracelet de leur poignet. Pour les femmes enceintes dont les chevilles sont susceptibles d'enfler, on a pr\u00e9vu un bracelet pour le poignet.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700285\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les bracelets utilis\u00e9s en Grande-Bretagne peuvent se couper aux ciseaux. On peut les enlever tr\u00e8s facilement. On le fait pour des raisons d'hygi\u00e8ne et de s\u00e9curit\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700286\" data-originallang=\"en\">Certains, \u00e0 juste titre, s'interrogent sur la logique de cette mesure. Les bracelets pour le syst\u00e8me GPS qui ont \u00e9t\u00e9 utilis\u00e9s dans les exp\u00e9riences pilotes actuelles et dans celle du National Health Service sont donc diff\u00e9rents. Ils ne sont pas faits d'une sangle de plastique \u00e0 fibre optique, mais d'une sangle de cuir avec une bande d'acier que seuls des coupe-boulons industriels peuvent couper. Il faudrait d'abord que le d\u00e9linquant se munisse de cet outil, puis il lui faudrait encore une vingtaine de minutes pour couper le bracelet, ce qui est \u00e9norme.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2700287\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il n'y a pas de r\u00e9ponse simple ni unique \u00e0 votre question sur la facilit\u00e9 d'enlever ce genre de bracelet, parce qu'il existe diff\u00e9rents types de bracelets et de sangles.</p>"
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            "source_id": "6552751",
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