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This is a list
of speeches
from the openparliament.ca API. If you’re new here, you might want to look at the documentation. If API and JSON are gibberish to you, you’re better off at our main site.
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{
"objects": [
{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:25:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837859\" data-originallang=\"en\">Let's look at paragraph 518(1)(c) of the Criminal Code and its proposed replacement subparagraphs, starting with:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837860\" data-originallang=\"en\"> (iv) to show the circumstances of the alleged offence, particularly as they relate to the probability of conviction of the accused, </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837861\" data-originallang=\"en\">That's nothing new in some respects, but if you're putting it in there, what does it do? Does that mean that crown counsel has to make sure that they have more evidence to put to a justice of the peace? Then it becomes almost a trial as opposed to.... We, the system, just cannot afford that. We are concerned right now about time and pressure in the system. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837862\" data-originallang=\"en\">Right now, one of the factors that is taken into consideration on the tertiary ground is the strength of the crown's case. If you're going to mandate that the crown has to produce that evidence, what does that mean? It's not available yet. The police have not done it. What you get at a bail hearing is a synopsis because the file isn't ready. What you're doing here is introducing a potential step that is absolutely impossible with the resources we have and will add to the problem of the Jordan decision. That's one thing. Another is:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837863\" data-originallang=\"en\"> (i) to prove the fact that the accused has previously been convicted of a criminal offence, </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837864\" data-originallang=\"en\">Obviously, that's a secondary ground. Moreover, there's the following:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837865\" data-originallang=\"en\"> (ii) to prove the fact that the accused has been charged with and is awaiting trial for another criminal offence, </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837866\" data-originallang=\"en\">In an indictable offence, it's a reverse onus. Finally, there is:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837867\" data-originallang=\"en\"> (iii) to prove the fact that the accused has previously committed an offence under section 145, </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837868\" data-originallang=\"en\">Those are the administration of justice offences. With respect, I would suggest that every police officer, every judge, every defence counsel, every crown counsel in this country would say that we have a real problem with the administration of justice offences in the criminal system being prosecuted and loading up the remand. This, as I read it\u2014</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837859\" data-originallang=\"en\">Prenez l'alin\u00e9a 518(1)c) du Code criminel et les sous-alin\u00e9as qui le remplaceraient, \u00e0 commencer par: </p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837860\" data-originallang=\"en\"> (iv) soit d'exposer les circonstances de l'infraction pr\u00e9sum\u00e9e, particuli\u00e8rement en ce qu'elles ont trait \u00e0 la probabilit\u00e9 de la condamnation du pr\u00e9venu, </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837861\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce n'est rien de nouveau \u00e0 certains \u00e9gards, mais quel sera l'effet de cette disposition si on l'ajoute ici? Signifie-t-elle que le procureur de la Couronne doit rassembler plus d'\u00e9l\u00e9ments de preuve \u00e0 soumettre au juge de paix? Cela deviendrait alors presqu'un proc\u00e8s plut\u00f4t qu'une... Dans le syst\u00e8me, nous ne pouvons tout simplement pas nous permettre cela. Nous nous inqui\u00e9tons d\u00e9j\u00e0 des d\u00e9lais et des pressions qui p\u00e8sent sur le syst\u00e8me.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837862\" data-originallang=\"en\">\u00c0 l'heure actuelle, l'un des facteurs pris en consid\u00e9ration au motif tertiaire, c'est la force de la preuve de la Couronne. Si l'on oblige la Couronne \u00e0 produire cette preuve, qu'arrivera-t-il? Elle n'est pas encore disponible. Les policiers ne l'ont pas encore pr\u00e9par\u00e9e. Lors de l'enqu\u00eate sur le cautionnement, on obtient un r\u00e9sum\u00e9, parce que le dossier n'est pas pr\u00eat. Cette disposition se trouverait potentiellement \u00e0 ajouter une \u00e9tape qui serait absolument impossible compte tenu des ressources dont nous disposons et qui ne ferait qu'aggraver le probl\u00e8me d\u00e9coulant de l'arr\u00eat Jordan. C'est une chose. Il y a aussi</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837863\" data-originallang=\"en\"> (i) soit d'\u00e9tablir le fait que le pr\u00e9venu a ant\u00e9rieurement \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9clar\u00e9 coupable d'une infraction criminelle, </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837864\" data-originallang=\"en\">De toute \u00e9vidence, il s'agit l\u00e0 du motif secondaire. Puis, il y a cette disposition:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837865\" data-originallang=\"en\"> (ii) soit d'\u00e9tablir le fait que le pr\u00e9venu a \u00e9t\u00e9 inculp\u00e9 d'une autre infraction criminelle et attend son proc\u00e8s \u00e0 cet \u00e9gard, </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837866\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans les cas d'acte criminel, il y a renversement du fardeau de la preuve. Enfin, je mentionne cette disposition: </p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837867\" data-originallang=\"en\"> (iii) soit d'\u00e9tablir le fait que le pr\u00e9venu a ant\u00e9rieurement commis une infraction aux termes de l'article 145, </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837868\" data-originallang=\"en\">On parle l\u00e0 d'infractions contre l'administration de la justice. En toute d\u00e9f\u00e9rence, je pense que n'importe quel policier, juge, avocat de la d\u00e9fense ou procureur de la Couronne au Canada vous dira que les infractions contre l'administration de la justice constituent un grave probl\u00e8me dans le syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale en raison du grand nombre de poursuites et de personnes en d\u00e9tention provisoire pour cela. Selon mon interpr\u00e9tation... </p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:25:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Rob Nicholson",
"fr": "L'hon. Rob Nicholson"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837869\" data-originallang=\"en\">Does that make the argument that the court shouldn't hear about this information? If somebody has breached the terms of their release or something\u2014let's say they breached it 15 or 20 times\u2014don't you think that's relevant for the court to decide?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837869\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cela justifierait-il que le tribunal n'entende pas cette information? Si une personne a contrevenu aux conditions de sa lib\u00e9ration, ou quelque chose du genre, supposons qu'elle y ait contrevenu 15 ou 20 fois, ne croyez-vous pas qu'il est pertinent que le tribunal en soit inform\u00e9 pour prendre sa d\u00e9cision?</p>"
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"source_id": "9460157",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:25:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837870\" data-originallang=\"en\">Of course it's relevant, but why have they breached it 15 or 20 times?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837870\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bien s\u00fbr, c'est pertinent, mais pourquoi la personne y a-t-elle contrevenu 15 ou 20 fois?</p>"
},
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"procedural": false,
"source_id": "9460158",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:25:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Rob Nicholson",
"fr": "L'hon. Rob Nicholson"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837871\" data-originallang=\"en\">Well, they may be criminals. That happens.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837871\" data-originallang=\"en\">Eh bien, ce sont des criminels. Cela arrive.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/rob-nicholson-8/",
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"procedural": false,
"source_id": "9460161",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/"
},
{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:25:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837872\" data-originallang=\"en\">With the greatest respect, they may be persons.... You will find in the National Criminal Justice Symposium's studies on justice efficiencies that the vulnerable in this country face administration of justice offences more than anyone else. I didn't come up with that. Those are the studies that have been brought forward. I don't know whether that assists you.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837872\" data-originallang=\"en\">En toute d\u00e9f\u00e9rence, il peut s'agir de personnes... Vous constaterez, d'apr\u00e8s les \u00e9tudes du Symposium sur la justice p\u00e9nale portant sur l'efficacit\u00e9 de la justice que les personnes les plus vuln\u00e9rables dans ce pays sont accus\u00e9es d'infractions contre l'administration de la justice bien plus souvent que toutes les autres. Je n'invente rien. On peut le lire dans des \u00e9tudes officielles. Je ne sais pas si cela vous aide.</p>"
},
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"source_id": "9460164",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:25:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": "Le pr\u00e9sident"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837873\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837874\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Fraser.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837873\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837874\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur Fraser.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/the-chair-5/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/anthony-housefather/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4438/",
"procedural": true,
"source_id": "9460187",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:25:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Colin Fraser (West Nova, Lib.)",
"fr": "M. Colin Fraser (Nova-Ouest, Lib.)"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837875\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and my thanks to all of you for being here today. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837876\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ms. MacInnis-Wynn, I echo the comments of the chair in thanking you for everything you have done to bring this forward today and for being here and sharing your story with us. I'm so sorry for your loss, but thank you so much for being here and the courage it took to do that.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837877\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Trudell, I'd like to ask you a question. I'm first going to ask you a question on subsection 515(10), the justification for detention in custody. This bill seeks to add a couple of factors on the third ground of reasons justifying bail detention. The rationale put forward for this bill is to ensure that the relevant evidence is always presented to the court or to a magistrate in a bail hearing.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837878\" data-originallang=\"en\">These additions to subsection 515(10) on the third ground seem to expand the ability of a court to detain a person, or it's giving them another kick at the can, if you will, on things that have already been considered in paragraphs (a) and (b) of the justifications. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837879\" data-originallang=\"en\">I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that and if you believe that the grounds added to subsection 515(10) would be useful.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837875\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci beaucoup, monsieur le pr\u00e9sident. Je remercie \u00e9galement toutes les personnes qui sont parmi nous aujourd'hui.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837876\" data-originallang=\"en\">Madame MacInnis-Wynn, je me fais l'\u00e9cho du pr\u00e9sident en vous remerciant de tout ce que vous avez fait afin de porter cette question \u00e0 notre attention. Je vous remercie d'\u00eatre ici pour partager votre histoire avec nous. Je suis profond\u00e9ment d\u00e9sol\u00e9 que vous ayez perdu votre mari, mais je vous remercie infiniment d'\u00eatre ici, d'avoir le courage d'\u00eatre parmi nous.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837877\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ma\u00eetre Trudell, j'aimerais vous poser une question. Je veux d'abord vous interroger sur le paragraphe 510(10), qui porte sur les motifs justifiant la d\u00e9tention sous garde. Ce projet de loi vise \u00e0 ajouter quelques facteurs au motif tertiaire justifiant la d\u00e9tention sous garde. La raison invoqu\u00e9e pour justifier ce projet de loi est d'assurer que la preuve pertinente soit toujours pr\u00e9sent\u00e9e au tribunal ou au juge lors des enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837878\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ces ajouts aux dispositions sur le troisi\u00e8me motif \u00e9voqu\u00e9 au paragraphe 515(10) semblent \u00e9largir le pouvoir du tribunal de d\u00e9tenir une personne, ou alors il lui donne la possibilit\u00e9 de r\u00e9\u00e9valuer, si l'on veut, des \u00e9l\u00e9ments d\u00e9j\u00e0 mentionn\u00e9s aux alin\u00e9as a) et b) sur les justifications.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837879\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je me demande ce que vous en pensez et si vous croyez que les motifs ajout\u00e9s au paragraphe 515(10) seront utiles. </p>"
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"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/colin-fraser-1/",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837880\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Sir, are you referring to Roman numerals (v) and (vi) in the bill?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837880\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur, parlez-vous des sous-alin\u00e9as en chiffres romains (v) et (vi) du projet de loi?</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/william-trudell-8/",
"politician_url": null,
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"procedural": false,
"source_id": "9460212",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/"
},
{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Colin Fraser",
"fr": "M. Colin Fraser"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837881\" data-originallang=\"en\">Correct.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837881\" data-originallang=\"en\">Exactement.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/colin-fraser-2/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/colin-fraser/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4323/",
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "9460217",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837882\" data-originallang=\"en\">With the greatest respect, I don't think they add anything to the existing system that we have. If an accused person has failed to appear, then immediately there's going to be a problem on the primary ground. In other words, if I've been charged with a criminal offence, the court wants to know that I'm going to show up. So that's the first thing. Is he going to show up? Does he have roots in the community? That may lead to some restrictions. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837883\" data-originallang=\"en\">The fact that an accused has failed to appear in court on one or more occasions when required to do so doesn't say the accused has been convicted of a criminal offence; it says the accused has failed to appear. It's too broad. There are lots of reasons that people may fail to appear. That's not what we're concerned about here. If the person has a record of failing to appear, and that record is not excusable because of vulnerabilities, then that person fails on the primary ground. But that's vague; it doesn't add anything. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837884\" data-originallang=\"en\">It is of concern if the accused has failed, but it doesn't say they've been convicted. The fact that the accused has previously been convicted of a criminal offence he has been charged with, or is awaiting trial for a criminal offence, is already there. That's the secondary ground. The secondary ground is, if we let this person out, is he going to interfere with the administration of justice, such as interfering with witnesses? Does he have a history of the revolving door? It's already covered in the Criminal Code.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837885\" data-originallang=\"en\">It doesn't add to what we have, and it\u2014</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837882\" data-originallang=\"en\">Avec tout le respect que je vous dois, je ne crois pas qu'ils ajoutent quoi que ce soit au syst\u00e8me d\u00e9j\u00e0 en place. Si un pr\u00e9venu n'a pas r\u00e9pondu \u00e0 une convocation du tribunal, il y aura imm\u00e9diatement un probl\u00e8me selon le premier motif. Autrement dit, si je suis inculp\u00e9 d'une infraction criminelle, le tribunal veut savoir que je vais me pr\u00e9senter. C'est donc la premi\u00e8re chose. Va-t-il se pr\u00e9senter? A-t-il des racines dans la communaut\u00e9? Cela pourrait donner lieu \u00e0 certaines restrictions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837883\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le fait qu'un pr\u00e9venu n'ait pas r\u00e9pondu \u00e0 une convocation du tribunal \u00e0 une ou plusieurs occasions alors qu'il devait le faire ne veut pas dire qu'il a \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9clar\u00e9 coupable d'une infraction criminelle; il est simplement \u00e9crit que le pr\u00e9venu n'a pas r\u00e9pondu \u00e0 une convocation. C'est trop g\u00e9n\u00e9ral. Il y a beaucoup de raisons pour lesquelles une personne peut ne pas compara\u00eetre. Ce n'est pas ce qui nous pr\u00e9occupe ici. Si le d\u00e9faut de compara\u00eetre est r\u00e9current chez le pr\u00e9venu et que son dossier ne s'excuse pas par une vuln\u00e9rabilit\u00e9 particuli\u00e8re, la personne ne satisfait pas au premier motif. Mais cela reste vague et n'ajoute rien. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837884\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est inqui\u00e9tant si le pr\u00e9venu ne r\u00e9pond pas \u00e0 une convocation du tribunal, mais cela ne signifie pas qu'il a \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9clar\u00e9 coupable. Le fait que le pr\u00e9venu ait ant\u00e9rieurement \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9clar\u00e9 coupable d'une infraction criminelle dont il avait \u00e9t\u00e9 inculp\u00e9 ou qu'il soit en attente d'un proc\u00e8s pour une infraction criminelle est d\u00e9j\u00e0 pr\u00e9vu. On trouve ces \u00e9l\u00e9ments au motif secondaire. Le motif secondaire consiste \u00e0 \u00e9valuer si la personne, si nous la laissons en libert\u00e9, nuira \u00e0 l'administration de la justice et aux t\u00e9moins. A-t-elle un historique de r\u00e9cidive? C'est d\u00e9j\u00e0 pr\u00e9vu au Code criminel.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837885\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cela n'ajoute rien \u00e0 ce qu'on y trouve d\u00e9j\u00e0, en plus de...</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/william-trudell-9/",
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"source_id": "9460219",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Colin Fraser",
"fr": "M. Colin Fraser"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837886\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Trudell, you say it doesn't add to what we have. Does it expand at all the ability or likelihood of a person's being detained who otherwise would not be?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837886\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur Trudell, vous avez dit que cela n'ajoutait rien. N'y aurait-il pas plus de chances qu'une personne puisse \u00eatre d\u00e9tenue alors qu'elle ne l'aurait pas \u00e9t\u00e9 autrement?</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/colin-fraser-3/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/colin-fraser/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4323/",
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "9460235",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837887\" data-originallang=\"en\">The fact that an accused has failed to appear doesn't say he has been convicted of a criminal offence of failing to appear. That expands it, no question in my submission. How is this interpreted? Whether or not there is a new thrust on crown counsel not to follow the law as it is, as guided by the courts, in the Morales and Pearson decisions of the Supreme Court of Canada, is something I'm concerned about. </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837887\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le simple fait qu'un pr\u00e9venu n'ait pas donn\u00e9 suite \u00e0 une convocation \u00e0 compara\u00eetre ne signifie pas qu'il a \u00e9t\u00e9 reconnu coupable d'une infraction criminelle \u00e0 ce titre. Les chances seraient meilleures, cela ne fait aucun doute, comme je l'ai indiqu\u00e9 dans mes observations. Quant \u00e0 savoir comment tout cela va \u00eatre interpr\u00e9t\u00e9, je me demande si les avocats de la Couronne ne vont pas \u00eatre incit\u00e9s davantage \u00e0 faire fi de la loi dans sa forme actuelle pour se laisser guider par les tribunaux, et notamment par les arr\u00eats Morales et Pearson de la Cour supr\u00eame du Canada.</p>"
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"source_id": "9460242",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Colin Fraser",
"fr": "M. Colin Fraser"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837888\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you for that.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837889\" data-originallang=\"en\">Could I now turn to proposed subparagraph 518(1)(c)(v)?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837888\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci pour cette r\u00e9ponse.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837889\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'aimerais maintenant vous parler du sous-alin\u00e9a 518(1)c)(v) propos\u00e9.</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837890\" data-originallang=\"en\">Right: </p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837891\" data-originallang=\"en\"> to prove the fact that the accused has failed to appear in court on one or more occasions when required to do so; </p>\n</blockquote>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837890\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vois:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837891\" data-originallang=\"en\"> soit d'\u00e9tablir le fait que le pr\u00e9venu n'a pas r\u00e9pondu \u00e0 une convocation du tribunal \u00e0 une ou plusieurs occasions; </p>\n</blockquote>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Colin Fraser",
"fr": "M. Colin Fraser"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837892\" data-originallang=\"en\">Yes, and in proposed subparagraph 518(1)(c)(iii), it reads:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837893\" data-originallang=\"en\"> to prove the fact that the accused has previously committed an offence under section 145, </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837894\" data-originallang=\"en\">That deals with failures to appear. What, if any, difference do you see between proposed subparagraphs (iii) and (v) here?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837892\" data-originallang=\"en\">Oui, et \u00e9galement du sous-alin\u00e9a 518(1)c)(iii) propos\u00e9:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837893\" data-originallang=\"en\"> soit d'\u00e9tablir le fait que le pr\u00e9venu a ant\u00e9rieurement commis une infraction aux termes de l'article 145, </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837894\" data-originallang=\"en\">L'article en question traite de l'omission de compara\u00eetre. Voyez-vous une diff\u00e9rence entre les deux sous-alin\u00e9as (iii) et (v)?</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837895\" data-originallang=\"en\">I don't see any difference, really, on first reading, but this is the issue that's being examined by committees right across the country and by the Department of Justice. This is one of the administration of justice offences that contribute to the enormous number of persons in remand in the jails.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837895\" data-originallang=\"en\">\u00c0 premi\u00e8re vue, je dirais qu'il n'y a pas vraiment de diff\u00e9rence, mais c'est une question sur laquelle se penchent des comit\u00e9s dans tout le pays de m\u00eame que le minist\u00e8re de la Justice. C'est l'une des infractions li\u00e9es \u00e0 l'administration de la justice qui fait en sorte qu'il y a tant de gens qui se retrouvent en d\u00e9tention provisoire.</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Colin Fraser",
"fr": "M. Colin Fraser"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837896\" data-originallang=\"en\">I'd like to turn to Mr. Elliott. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837897\" data-originallang=\"en\">In that same section 518, the crown would now have to lead evidence regarding the circumstances of the alleged offence to be considered. Do you see that causing any delay? I know we can talk about criminal records and how producing failures to appear may be easy, but can you respond to what Mr. Trudell said? </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837898\" data-originallang=\"en\">If we now put an onus on the crown to have to show or demonstrate what the circumstances of the offence were, even in cases where normally that wouldn't be a ground that the crown would rely on, the onus is now on them to show this evidence before the court. Do you see that causing any delay with regard to producing that information? If it does cause delay, what happens to the accused in the meantime if he has to come back for a bail hearing the next day? Is he released in the meantime?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837896\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vais maintenant m'adresser \u00e0 M. Elliott.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837897\" data-originallang=\"en\">En vertu du m\u00eame article 518, la Couronne serait d\u00e9sormais tenue de pr\u00e9senter une preuve relativement aux circonstances de l'infraction pr\u00e9sum\u00e9e. Pensez-vous que cela entra\u00eenerait des retards? Nous pouvons bien parler des casiers judiciaires et du fait qu'il peut sembler facile de produire la preuve d'une omission de compara\u00eetre, mais pourriez-vous r\u00e9agir \u00e0 ce que vient de dire M. Trudell?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837898\" data-originallang=\"en\">La Couronne devrait dor\u00e9navant \u00e9tablir devant la cour les circonstances dans lesquelles l'infraction a \u00e9t\u00e9 commise, et ce, m\u00eame dans les cas o\u00f9 elle n'aurait normalement pas invoqu\u00e9 un motif semblable. Estimez-vous que l'obligation de produire cette information risque de causer des retards? Par ailleurs, s'il y a effectivement des retards, qu'adviendra-t-il exactement du pr\u00e9venu? Sera-t-il rel\u00e2ch\u00e9 avant de devoir se pr\u00e9senter le lendemain pour une nouvelle audience sur sa lib\u00e9ration sous caution?</p>"
},
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:35:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Michael Elliott",
"fr": "M. Michael Elliott"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837899\" data-originallang=\"en\">Well, if I understand your question correctly, if a crown has to provide, say, an extra five or ten minutes to prove the onus on an accused, I look at it from this perspective: if I'm taking five or ten extra minutes to provide all the information that is available to a justice of the peace or to a judge, I'd rather take five or ten extra minutes to provide all the information that I have available than take an opportunity that something may, I'll say \u201cslide\u201d for lack of a better term, and then somebody, unfortunately, gets out and creates havoc, or an issue like we presently see before us. That's my understanding and take from that. To me, it may be 15 or 20 minutes, but the bottom line is that all the information is being provided, and what's important is making sure all the information is out there.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837899\" data-originallang=\"en\">Si j'ai bien compris votre question, je dirais qu'il est pr\u00e9f\u00e9rable que le procureur de la Couronne prenne cinq ou dix minutes suppl\u00e9mentaires pour produire cette preuve concernant le pr\u00e9venu en fournissant au juge toutes les informations disponibles, plut\u00f4t que de risquer que les choses tournent mal et qu'il se retrouve en libert\u00e9 et se mette \u00e0 faire des ravages, comme dans ce cas dont nous avons parl\u00e9. C'est ma fa\u00e7on de voir les choses. Peut-\u00eatre qu'il faudra prendre 15 ou 20 minutes \u00e0 cette fin, mais il importe surtout que toute l'information soit bel et bien transmise.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/michael-elliott-5/",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:35:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Colin Fraser",
"fr": "M. Colin Fraser"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837900\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Thank you, Mr. Elliott. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837901\" data-originallang=\"en\">Can I ask Mr. Trudell to briefly comment?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837900\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci, monsieur Elliott.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837901\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur Trudell, pouvez-vous nous dire bri\u00e8vement ce que vous en pensez?</p>"
},
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:35:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837902\" data-originallang=\"en\">It's not five or 10 minutes. It's not ready. It hasn't been prepared. If that's going to be introduced, then the defence has to challenge it, and you're going to have a trial at the bail hearing. If in five or 10 minutes the crown counsel could be better equipped to put a bail hearing together, then I'm all for that, but we're talking about the case. The police are under such stress in terms of getting disclosure that it's not going to happen in five or 10 minutes. Police officers aren't going to be able to put it together. Their cases are still developing. They have reasonable and probable grounds to charge, but a lot is going to happen between then\u2014preliminary hearing, pretrial, and all the rest of it. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837903\" data-originallang=\"en\">Crown counsel, defence counsel, and the justice of the peace are under great pressure to move the clock and move the yardsticks. I see this as absolutely weighing down a bail hearing. Right now in this country, it is very strained at the bail courts, absolutely strained. Sometimes you wait hours for briefs to show up before a bail hearing takes place. It's putting unnecessary pressure on the police and the crown and it doesn't solve the problem, because at the end of this, and foremost, is the accused's right to bail. That has to be kept in mind here. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837904\" data-originallang=\"en\">I see this, and my counsel colleagues from across the country see this, and we think, \u201cMy God, how is that ever going to happen now, with the pressures on the system?\u201d</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837902\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce n'est pas une question de 5 ou 10 minutes. Le dossier n'est pas pr\u00eat. Il n'a pas \u00e9t\u00e9 pr\u00e9par\u00e9. Il faut que la d\u00e9fense ait la possibilit\u00e9 de contester la preuve produite, et l'audience sur la lib\u00e9ration sous caution peut prendre la forme d'un v\u00e9ritable proc\u00e8s. Si l'avocat de la Couronne disposait de moyens plus efficaces pour pr\u00e9senter aussi rapidement sa preuve lors de l'audience, je ne pourrais que m'en r\u00e9jouir. Il est toutefois question ici de tout un dossier \u00e0 monter. Les pressions qui s'exercent sur les policiers pour obtenir la divulgation sont telles que 5 ou 10 minutes ne peuvent pas suffire. Il est impossible pour les agents de police de le faire, car leur travail suit son cours. Ils ont des motifs raisonnables et probables de porter des accusations, mais il peut se passer encore bien des choses d'ici \u00e0 l'enqu\u00eate pr\u00e9liminaire, au proc\u00e8s et \u00e0 tout le reste. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837903\" data-originallang=\"en\">De tr\u00e8s fortes pressions s'exercent sur le procureur de la Couronne, l'avocat de la d\u00e9fense et le juge de paix pour que les choses se d\u00e9roulent rondement. J'estime que cela alourdirait consid\u00e9rablement le processus de lib\u00e9ration sous caution. Actuellement au Canada, les tribunaux qui enqu\u00eatent sur le cautionnement sont tout \u00e0 fait surcharg\u00e9s. Parfois il faut attendre un dossier d'audience pendant des heures avant que l'enqu\u00eate sous cautionnement puisse avoir lieu. On exerce des pressions indues sur les services de police et la Couronne sans toutefois r\u00e9gler le probl\u00e8me. En effet, il ne faut jamais perdre de vue que la demande de lib\u00e9ration sous caution est en d\u00e9finitive un droit dont jouit le pr\u00e9venu.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837904\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je regarde ce qui est propos\u00e9 ici et je me demande, \u00e0 l'instar de mes coll\u00e8gues avocats de tout le pays, comment diable cela va-t-il \u00eatre possible compte tenu des pressions qui s'exercent d\u00e9j\u00e0 sur le syst\u00e8me. </p>"
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