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of speeches
from the openparliament.ca API. If you’re new here, you might want to look at the documentation. If API and JSON are gibberish to you, you’re better off at our main site.
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{
"objects": [
{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:00:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair (Mr. Anthony Housefather (Mount Royal, Lib.))",
"fr": "Le pr\u00e9sident (M. Anthony Housefather (Mont-Royal, Lib.))"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837783\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this meeting of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. We are resuming our study of Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8082711\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-217/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (detention in custody)\">S-217, an act to amend the Criminal Code (detention in custody)</a>. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837784\" data-originallang=\"en\">Today we have three witnesses before us. We will hear them as a panel before we ask questions. We have Ms. Shelly MacInnis-Wynn, as an individual; the Alberta Federation of Police Associations, represented by Mr. Michael Elliott, president; and the Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers, represented by Mr. William Trudell, the chair. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837785\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ms. MacInnis-Wynn, on behalf of all members of the committee, all parties, and on a non-partisan basis, we want to express our deepest condolences to you for loss of your husband. I'm sure you've heard it over and over again, but just know that we say this with meaning as all members of Parliament from all parties.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837786\" data-originallang=\"en\">We look forward to hearing your testimony today. Please, the floor is yours.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837783\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mesdames et messieurs, je vous souhaite la bienvenue \u00e0 cette s\u00e9ance du Comit\u00e9 permanent de la justice et des droits de la personne. Nous poursuivons notre \u00e9tude du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8082711\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-217/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (detention in custody)\">S-217, Loi modifiant le Code criminel (d\u00e9tention sous garde)</a>.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837784\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous recevons aujourd'hui trois t\u00e9moins. Nous les entendrons d'abord tous les trois, apr\u00e8s quoi nous leur poserons des questions. Nous accueillons Mme Shelly MacInnis-Wynn, qui compara\u00eet \u00e0 titre personnel; Michael Elliott, pr\u00e9sident de l'Alberta Federation of Police Associations; ainsi que M. William Trudell, pr\u00e9sident du Conseil canadien des avocats de la d\u00e9fense.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837785\" data-originallang=\"en\">Madame MacInnis-Wynn, au nom de tous les membres du Comit\u00e9, de tous les partis, sans biais partisan, nous tenons \u00e0 vous exprimer nos plus sinc\u00e8res condol\u00e9ances pour le d\u00e9c\u00e8s de votre mari. Je suis certain que vous l'avez entendu \u00e0 maintes reprises, mais sachez que nos condol\u00e9ances viennent vraiment de tous les d\u00e9put\u00e9s de tous les partis.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837786\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous avons h\u00e2te d'entendre votre t\u00e9moignage aujourd'hui. La parole est \u00e0 vous.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/the-chair-1/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/anthony-housefather/",
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"source_id": "9460004",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/"
},
{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:00:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Ms. Shelly MacInnis-Wynn (As an Individual)",
"fr": "Mme Shelly MacInnis-Wynn (\u00e0 titre personnel)"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837787\" data-originallang=\"en\"> It's been two years of what I'd like to call my journey of picking up the broken pieces. I call it this because that is exactly what has been left for me and my family to do, that is, to pick ourselves back up and try to put our lives back together, not only as a family but as individuals.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837788\" data-originallang=\"en\">On January 17, 2015, our lives were torn apart in just four seconds, torn apart and left forever broken because of a career criminal, Shawn Rehn, who had been let back out onto the streets after a bail hearing, a bail hearing that didn't disclose his lengthy criminal record. These four seconds could have been prevented, and my husband would still be here today. Every day for the past two years, I have woken up and realized that Dave is really gone. I start each day crying in the shower. Every day I have to pull myself together and try to continue living and play the role of both parents\u2014and that's not easy. Every day I have to watch my children grow and try to continue their lives without their father. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837789\" data-originallang=\"en\">Every day we are reminded so many times that he is no longer here, and it breaks our hearts that we can't have those simple moments back that we had every single day with him. There were the moments of hearing the cereal bowl hitting the table in the morning and his asking who ate the last of his Froot Loops and the simple moments of hearing the teapot rattle and knowing that it was three o'clock because Dave was making afternoon tea. I even miss the moments of him complaining about how I made the bed in the morning. All those little moments add up during the day, and we are reminded every single moment that he is not there.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837790\" data-originallang=\"en\">Our lives have changed in a way you would never understand unless you have walked the path. I am so grateful for the people I have in my life who have had to walk this path as well. We call it a bittersweet relationship because we're thankful for each other\u2014but we wish we had never met. It's a life that we wish no one should have to live.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837791\" data-originallang=\"en\">There is not enough time today to explain or tell you the struggles that we have to go through every single day of our lives and will continue to go through every single day. However, I'm going to share just one moment with you, one that happened a few weeks ago. This is a pretty significant moment. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837792\" data-originallang=\"en\">When Dave was shot, he was taken to the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Edmonton. I had to go back there after this had happened, and I thought that first meeting would be the worst and that I'd get it out of my system, and that would be it. Just recently, I had to go there for work. When driving there, I was very anxious but was able to get through the day. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837793\" data-originallang=\"en\">Just before I left, I caught a glimpse of the emergency entrance, and then I saw an ambulance. In those few seconds, I was taken back immediately to the night that Dave was shot and reminded of everything that we had to go through in those four days that followed. In those few seconds, I could feel everything, the chest pain, the anxiety, the feeling of not being able to breathe, and the uncontrollable tears that were rolling down my face. It was like it was happening all over again.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837794\" data-originallang=\"en\">These are the things we are reminded of daily, and trust me, it happens every single day\u2014not to this degree, but it happens every single day. We are constantly reminded of what has happened and that Dave is not with us anymore. This is so draining, not only emotionally, but physically. This affects not only me, but also my children. It affects Dave's mother and it affects his sisters. By changing this one simple word, another family can be saved from going through this heartache and torture that we have to go through every single day. This is something that absolutely no one should have to endure.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837795\" data-originallang=\"en\">I ask you to, please, do the right thing. Make this change and make our streets a safer place to be, not only for our law enforcement, but for everyone.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837796\" data-originallang=\"en\">This can affect the safety of every single person in our country, including you and your loved ones.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837797\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837787\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il y a maintenant deux ans que j'ai entrepris mon cheminement afin de r\u00e9parer les pots cass\u00e9s, comme je le dis. J'utilise cette image parce que c'est exactement ce qu'il me reste \u00e0 faire avec ma famille; nous devons nous relever et essayer de remettre nos vies sur les rails, non seulement en tant que famille, mais en tant que personnes.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837788\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le 17 janvier 2015, nos vies ont \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9chir\u00e9es en quatre petites secondes, bris\u00e9es \u00e0 jamais \u00e0 cause d'un criminel de carri\u00e8re, Shawn Rehn, qui avait lib\u00e9r\u00e9 apr\u00e8s une enqu\u00eate sur le cautionnement lors de laquelle son lourd casier judiciaire n'avait pas \u00e9t\u00e9 divulgu\u00e9. Ces quatre secondes auraient pu \u00eatre \u00e9vit\u00e9es, et mon mari serait encore ici aujourd'hui. Chaque jour, depuis deux ans, je me r\u00e9veille et je me rends compte que Dave est vraiment parti. Je commence chaque journ\u00e9e en pleurant dans la douche. Chaque jour, je dois me ressaisir et essayer de poursuivre ma vie et de jouer mon r\u00f4le de deux parents \u2014 et ce n'est pas facile. Chaque jour, je dois regarder mes enfants grandir et essayer de continuer leurs vies sans leur p\u00e8re.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837789\" data-originallang=\"en\">Tous les jours, il y a tellement de choses qui nous rappellent qu'il n'est plus l\u00e0, et nous avons le coeur bris\u00e9 de savoir que nous ne pourrons jamais retrouver ces petits moments quotidiens simples que nous passions avec lui. Il y a ce moment o\u00f9 l'on entendait le bol de c\u00e9r\u00e9ales pos\u00e9 sur la table, le matin, et o\u00f9 il demandait qui avait mang\u00e9 le fond de sa bo\u00eete de Froot Loops. Il ya le moment simple o\u00f9 l'on entendait la bouilloire siffler et l'on savait qu'il \u00e9tait 15 heures, parce que Dave pr\u00e9parait le th\u00e9 de l'apr\u00e8s-midi. Je m'ennuie m\u00eame des moments o\u00f9 il se plaignait de la fa\u00e7on dont j'avais fait le lit le matin. Tous ces petits moments s'accumulent pendant la journ\u00e9e, et chaque instant nous rappelle qu'il n'est plus l\u00e0.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837790\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nos vies ont chang\u00e9 d'une fa\u00e7on que vous ne pourrez jamais comprendre \u00e0 moins de l'avoir v\u00e9cu. Je suis tellement reconnaissante pour les personnes dans ma vie qui sont pass\u00e9es par l\u00e0 elles aussi. Je dis que c'est une relation aigre-douce, parce que nous sommes reconnaissants les uns pour les autres, mais que nous pr\u00e9f\u00e9rerions ne nous \u00eatre jamais rencontr\u00e9s. C'est une vie que je ne souhaite \u00e0 personne.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837791\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je n'aurai pas assez de temps aujourd'hui pour vous expliquer toutes les batailles que nous devons mener chaque jour de notre vie et que nous devrons continuer de mener chaque jour. Je vais toutefois prendre le temps de partager un moment avec vous, qui est survenu il y a quelques semaines. C'est un moment tr\u00e8s important.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837792\" data-originallang=\"en\">Apr\u00e8s la fusillade, Dave a \u00e9t\u00e9 transport\u00e9 au Royal Alexandra Hospital, \u00e0 Edmonton. J'ai d\u00fb y retourner par la suite, et je m'attendais \u00e0 ce que la premi\u00e8re fois soit la pire, \u00e0 pleurer un bon coup, puis \u00e0 ce que ce soit tout. Tout r\u00e9cemment, j'ai d\u00fb y retourner dans le cadre de mon travail. Pendant que je conduisais, j'\u00e9tais tr\u00e8s anxieuse, mais j'arrivais \u00e0 fonctionner.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837793\" data-originallang=\"en\">Juste avant de partir, j'ai aper\u00e7u l'entr\u00e9e de l'urgence, o\u00f9 j'ai vu une ambulance. En quelques secondes, j'ai imm\u00e9diatement rev\u00e9cu la nuit o\u00f9 Dave a \u00e9t\u00e9 tu\u00e9, puis je me suis rappel\u00e9 tout ce que nous avons v\u00e9cu pendant les quatre jours qui ont suivi. En l'espace de quelques secondes, j'ai tout ressenti, la douleur dans la poitrine, l'anxi\u00e9t\u00e9, la sensation de ne pas pouvoir respirer et les larmes incontr\u00f4lables qui me coulaient sur les joues. C'est comme si tout recommen\u00e7ait.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837794\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce sont des choses dont nous nous rappelons chaque jour, et croyez-moi, elles nous reviennent \u00e0 l'esprit chaque jour \u2014 pas aussi fortement, mais cela arrive chaque jour. La vie nous rappelle constamment ce qui est arriv\u00e9 et le fait que Dave n'est plus parmi nous. C'est tellement \u00e9puisant, pas seulement \u00e9motionnellement, mais physiquement. Il n'y a pas que moi qui en souffre, mes enfants aussi. La m\u00e8re de Dave en souffre, ainsi que ses soeurs. Ce petit changement d'un seul mot pourrait \u00e9pargner \u00e0 une autre famille la tristesse et la torture que nous devons endurer chaque jour. Il n'y a absolument personne qui devrait endurer cela.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837795\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vous demande, s'il vous pla\u00eet, de faire ce qu'il faut. Apportez ce changement et rendez nos rues plus s\u00fbres, non seulement pour nos policiers, mais pour tout le monde.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837796\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cela peut compromettre la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 de chaque personne au Canada, y compris la v\u00f4tre et celle de vos proches.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837797\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/shelly-macinnis-wynn-1/",
"politician_url": null,
"politician_membership_url": null,
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "9460011",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/"
},
{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:05:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": "Le pr\u00e9sident"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837798\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you very much, Ms. Wynn, for the very compelling testimony. Again, from everybody's perspective from across Canada, our hearts break for what you and anyone else in those circumstances have gone through.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837799\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Elliott, the floor is yours.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837798\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci infiniment, madame Wynn, de ce t\u00e9moignage tr\u00e8s poignant. Encore une fois, de la part de tous les Canadiens, nous avons le coeur bris\u00e9 \u00e0 penser \u00e0 ce que vous et toutes les autres personnes dans le m\u00eame genre de situation pouvez vivre.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837799\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur Elliott, la parole est \u00e0 vous.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/the-chair-2/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/anthony-housefather/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4438/",
"procedural": true,
"source_id": "9460024",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/"
},
{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:05:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Michael Elliott (President, Alberta Federation of Police Associations)",
"fr": "M. Michael Elliott (pr\u00e9sident, Alberta Federation of Police Associations)"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837800\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Thank you.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837801\" data-originallang=\"en\">Good afternoon. My name is Michael Elliott. I have been a police officer for 12 years. I'm currently the president of the Alberta Federation of Police Associations. We represent approximately 4,500 municipal police officers across the province of Alberta.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837802\" data-originallang=\"en\">I wish to thank the committee for the opportunity to speak in regard to Bill<a data-HoCid=\"8082711\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-217/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (detention in custody)\">S-217, an act to amend the Criminal Code (detention in custody)</a>. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837803\" data-originallang=\"en\">Before I begin, I would like to provide a brief synopsis of the terrible event that has brought the attention to bail hearings.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837804\" data-originallang=\"en\">On January 17, 2015, RCMP officer Constable David Wynn was serving his community and his country. Constable Wynn encountered a stolen vehicle parked at a casino in St. Albert, Alberta. Constable Wynn identified a suspect, Shawn Rehn. Upon making contact, the suspect proceeded to shoot Constable Derek Bond in the arm, and then shot Constable David Wynn in his face. Constable David Wynn succumbed to his injuries a few days later in hospital.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837805\" data-originallang=\"en\">Who was Shawn Rehn? Shawn Rehn was a career criminal with at least 100 offences over a period of two decades. Between 2010 and 2015, Shawn Rehn was sentenced to a total of 10 years in jail. His charges included a variety of offences, such as break and enter, theft, dangerous operation of a motor vehicle, possession of property under $5,000, house break-in and the commission of theft, obstructing a police officer, failing to attend court, assault with a weapon, and possession of property obtained by a crime over $5,000. The list goes on.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837806\" data-originallang=\"en\">You may have an attachment in front of you that provides a list of the charges he was subject to, what he was convicted of, what he was released on, and the charges that were before him, unfortunately, during the event that unfolded.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837807\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Rehn also had a history of firearms-related offences. He had been prohibited from possessing firearms for life. He was on conditions prohibiting him from possessing ammunition and firearms. Shawn Rehn had a total of 29 Criminal Code outstanding charges before the courts while he was on bail.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837808\" data-originallang=\"en\">This brings us to bail hearings. Many questions were raised about why Shawn Rehn was released on bail via a justice of the peace. We can sit here today and discuss what or what wasn't provided. The bottom line is that not all of the information was produced.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837809\" data-originallang=\"en\">You may ask what is required at a bail hearing. As a police officer in Alberta, I provide the just cause for detention. When a person is arrested, I have to provide a bail package. This information is provided in three levels to a justice of the peace to determine if the accused is granted bail or remanded.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837810\" data-originallang=\"en\">The first level in the bail package is what we refer to as the \u201cprimary grounds\u201d. I provide information to ensure that the accused will or will not appear in court to face his or her charges. The criteria include the nature of the offence, the strength of the evidence, the accused's criminal record, previous court orders against the accused, and his or her behaviour when arrested.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837811\" data-originallang=\"en\">The second level of the bail package is what we call \u201csecondary grounds\u201d. This is for the protection and safety of the public. The criteria include the accused's criminal record and compliance with previous court orders, whether the accused is already on bail or probation, the nature of the offence, and the stability of the accused.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837812\" data-originallang=\"en\">The third level of the bail package is what we refer to as \u201ctertiary grounds\u201d. This information is to maintain confidence in the administration of justice. The criteria include the strength of the case against the accused; the severity of the offence, such as whether a firearm was used; the criminal record of the accused; and finally, the potential sentencing of the accused if convicted.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837813\" data-originallang=\"en\">The judicial system relies on all the evidence and information to make an educated and well-informed decision. When matters are before the court, disclosure and evidence are paramount to a fair and equitable outcome. The problem is that not all of the information is provided at bail hearings, as the Criminal Code states that information \u201cmay\u201d be presented.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837814\" data-originallang=\"en\">After Constable Wynn's death, a review of the bail system in Alberta was conducted. The following is an excerpt from the study:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837815\" data-originallang=\"en\"> The bail system can also suffer from a perception that bail hearings are less weighty and perhaps less consequential than other steps in the judicial process. The rules of evidence are more relaxed, the burden of proof is less onerous, and bail hearings do not generally involve the testimony of witnesses and experts. Most who work in the bail system, however, would be more likely to agree with the prosecutor who told this Review \u201ca proper show cause hearing needs to have the same sense of importance and urgency as a murder prosecution.\u201d The stakes for the accused and the public can be that high. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837816\" data-originallang=\"en\">A study by Ms. Nancy Irving recommended the following, and provided strong evidence of the importance of implementing Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8082711\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-217/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (detention in custody)\">S-217</a>. It would make a small but significant change to section 518 of the Criminal Code. The recommendations are as follows.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837817\" data-originallang=\"en\">Before a bail hearing, a police officer should provide the crown counsel with the following information, at a minimum: a copy of the information setting out the criminal charges, an accurate synopsis of the allegations and circumstances of the offences, an up-to-date criminal record including both a CPIC printout and JOIN sheet, information on outstanding charges, and copies of forms of release of those charges, and, finally, details of the accused's personal circumstances such as residence, employment, and ties to the community.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837818\" data-originallang=\"en\">Changing the wording in section 518 of the Criminal Code from \u201cshall\u201d to \u201cmay\u201d by implementing <a data-HoCid=\"8082711\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-217/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (detention in custody)\">Bill S-217</a> is the correct way to proceed for the judicial system and the Criminal Code. Bill S-217 would not overburden the system, in my opinion. Bill S-217 would not create any financial hardships on any level of the government. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837819\" data-originallang=\"en\">The requested information, in my opinion, is already available via the police to provide to the crown at a bail hearing. I have personally acquired the aforementioned information via available programs police agencies use.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837820\" data-originallang=\"en\">In life, we make decisions. When making those decisions, we research, educate ourselves, and learn what is best before we forge ahead with our plans. It is no different with our judicial system. We want to make an educated and well-informed decision during bail hearings. This bill is not about being tough on crime. This bill is about being fair, honest, and open with the public about crime. In the end, we want to ensure that the public has faith in our criminal judicial system and that we can look at every citizen in Canada, including those accused of crimes, and tell them that we made the decision with all the information that was available. Our citizens deserve the truth. Bail hearings are no different.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837821\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837800\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837801\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bonjour. Je m'appelle Michael Elliott. Je suis policier depuis 12 ans. Je suis actuellement pr\u00e9sident de l'Alberta Federation of Police Associations. Nous repr\u00e9sentons environ 4 500 policiers municipaux de l'Alberta.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837802\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je souhaite remercier le Comit\u00e9 de me fournir l'occasion de m'exprimer sur le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8082711\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-217/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (detention in custody)\">S-217, Loi modifiant le Code criminel (d\u00e9tention sous garde)</a>. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837803\" data-originallang=\"en\">Avant de commencer, j'aimerais vous rappeler bri\u00e8vement le terrible cours des \u00e9v\u00e9nements qui ont attir\u00e9 l'attention sur les enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837804\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le 17 janvier 2015, l'agent de la GRC David Wynn \u00e9tait en train de servir sa communaut\u00e9 et son pays lorsqu'il a aper\u00e7u un v\u00e9hicule vol\u00e9 stationn\u00e9 pr\u00e8s d'un casino \u00e0 St. Albert, en Alberta. L'agent Wynn a identifi\u00e9 un suspect, Shawn Rehn. D\u00e8s qu'il est entr\u00e9 en contact avec lui, le suspect a sorti son arme et tir\u00e9 dans le bras de l'agent Derek Bond, puis dans le visage de l'agent David Wynn. L'agent David Wynn a succomb\u00e9 \u00e0 ses blessures quelques jours plus tard \u00e0 l'h\u00f4pital.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837805\" data-originallang=\"en\">Qui \u00e9tait Shawn Rehn? Shawn Rehn \u00e9tait un criminel de carri\u00e8re trouv\u00e9 coupable d'au moins 100 infractions au cours des 20 ann\u00e9es pr\u00e9c\u00e9dentes. Entre 2010 et 2015, Shawn Rehn a \u00e9t\u00e9 condamn\u00e9 \u00e0 un total de 10 ann\u00e9es d'emprisonnement. Les accusations port\u00e9es contre lui \u00e9taient multiples et comprenaient l'introduction par effraction, le vol, la conduite dangereuse, la possession de biens de moins de 5 000 $, le cambriolage de domicile avec introduction par effraction, l'entrave au travail d'un policier, le d\u00e9faut de compara\u00eetre devant un tribunal, l'agression arm\u00e9e et la possession d'un bien de plus de 5 000 $ obtenu criminellement. La liste continue.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837806\" data-originallang=\"en\">Vous avez peut-\u00eatre un document sous les yeux sur lequel figure la liste de toutes les accusations dont il a fait l'objet, de celles pour lesquelles il a \u00e9t\u00e9 condamn\u00e9, puis lib\u00e9r\u00e9, et des accusations qui pesaient toujours contre lui, malheureusement, au moment de l'\u00e9v\u00e9nement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837807\" data-originallang=\"en\">M. Rehn avait \u00e9galement un historique d'infractions li\u00e9es aux armes \u00e0 feu. Il faisait l'objet d'une interdiction \u00e0 vie de possession d'armes \u00e0 feu. Il \u00e9tait en libert\u00e9 sous caution, de sorte qu'il lui \u00e9tait interdit de poss\u00e9der des armes et des minutions. Il y avait, au total, 29 accusations d'infractions au Code criminel en instance contre Shawn Rehn pour lesquelles il \u00e9tait en attente d'un proc\u00e8s pendant sa libert\u00e9 sous caution.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837808\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cela nous m\u00e8ne \u00e0 l'enqu\u00eate sur le cautionnement. Beaucoup de questions se posent sur les raisons qui ont men\u00e9 un juge de paix a lib\u00e9rer Shawn Rehn sous caution. Nous aurons beau discuter aujourd'hui de ce qui lui a \u00e9t\u00e9 divulgu\u00e9 ou non, l'essentiel, c'est que toute l'information ne lui a pas \u00e9t\u00e9 fournie.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837809\" data-originallang=\"en\">Vous vous demandez peut-\u00eatre quels renseignements doivent \u00eatre fournis lors des enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement. En tant que policier, en Alberta, je fournis les \u00e9l\u00e9ments de preuve justifiant une d\u00e9tention. Quand une personne se fait interpeller, je dois soumettre un plan de mise en libert\u00e9 sous caution. Ce plan comporte trois parties et est remis au juge de paix pour lui permettre de d\u00e9terminer si le pr\u00e9venu sera lib\u00e9r\u00e9 sous caution ou s'il sera plac\u00e9 en d\u00e9tention pr\u00e9ventive. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837810\" data-originallang=\"en\">La premi\u00e8re partie du plan de mise en libert\u00e9 sous caution vise ce qu'on appelle le \u00ab motif principal \u00bb. J'y fournis l'information n\u00e9cessaire pour d\u00e9terminer si le pr\u00e9venu se pr\u00e9sentera ou non devant le tribunal pour faire face aux accusions qui p\u00e8sent contre lui. Les crit\u00e8res comprennent la nature de l'infraction, la force de la preuve, le casier judiciaire du pr\u00e9venu, les ordonnances judiciaires d\u00e9j\u00e0 rendues contre lui et son comportement au moment de son arrestation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837811\" data-originallang=\"en\">La deuxi\u00e8me partie du plan porte sur ce qu'on appelle le \u00ab motif secondaire \u00bb. Celui-ci consiste \u00e0 assurer la protection et la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 du public. Les crit\u00e8res comprennent le casier judiciaire du pr\u00e9venu et son respect des ordonnances judiciaires pr\u00e9c\u00e9dentes, le fait que le pr\u00e9venu soit d\u00e9j\u00e0 en libert\u00e9 sous caution ou en probation, la nature de l'infraction et la stabilit\u00e9 du pr\u00e9venu. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837812\" data-originallang=\"en\">La troisi\u00e8me partie du plan de mise en libert\u00e9 sous caution pr\u00e9sente ce qu'on appelle le \u00ab motif tertiaire \u00bb. Ce dernier vise \u00e0 pr\u00e9server la confiance envers l'administration de la justice. Les crit\u00e8res comprennent la force de la preuve qui p\u00e8se contre le pr\u00e9venu, la gravit\u00e9 de l'infraction, notamment l'utilisation ou non d'une arme \u00e0 feu; le casier judiciaire du pr\u00e9venu et enfin, la peine qui pourrait \u00eatre impos\u00e9e si le pr\u00e9venu est trouv\u00e9 coupable. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837813\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le syst\u00e8me judiciaire d\u00e9pend de tous les \u00e9l\u00e9ments de preuve soumis pour appuyer la prise d'une d\u00e9cision \u00e9clair\u00e9e. Quand un tribunal est saisi d'une affaire, la divulgation et la preuve sont fondamentales pour assurer un verdict juste et \u00e9quitable. Le probl\u00e8me, c'est que toute l'information n'est pas n\u00e9cessairement fournie au moment des enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement, puisque le Code criminel dicte que l'information \u00ab peut \u00bb \u00eatre pr\u00e9sent\u00e9e.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837814\" data-originallang=\"en\">Apr\u00e8s la mort de l'agent Wynn, le syst\u00e8me de lib\u00e9ration sous caution de l'Alberta a fait l'objet d'un examen. En voici un extrait:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837815\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Il peut \u00e9galement y avoir une perception selon laquelle les enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement ne seraient peut-\u00eatre pas au aussi pouss\u00e9es et seraient peut-\u00eatre moins coh\u00e9rentes que d'autres proc\u00e9dures judiciaires. Les r\u00e8gles de la preuve y sont plus souples, le fardeau de la preuve moins lourd, et il n'y a habituellement pas de t\u00e9moignages de t\u00e9moins ni d'experts lors des enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement. La plupart de ceux et celle qui travaillent dans le syst\u00e8me de la lib\u00e9ration sous caution seraient fort probablement d'accord avec le poursuivant qui a dit que l'expos\u00e9 des motifs en bonne et due forme devrait rev\u00eatir la m\u00eame importance et s'accompagner du m\u00eame sentiment d'urgence que lors de poursuites pour meurtre. L'enjeu peut \u00eatre aussi grave tant pour le pr\u00e9venu que pour le public. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"4837816\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Voici ce que recommandait Nancy Irving dans une \u00e9tude appuy\u00e9e sur de fortes donn\u00e9es probantes attestant de l'importance de l'adoption du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8082711\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-217/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (detention in custody)\">S-217</a>. Ce projet de loi permettrait d'apporter un petit changement lourd de cons\u00e9quences \u00e0 l'article 518 du Code criminel. Voici ses recommandations.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837817\" data-originallang=\"en\">Avant toute enqu\u00eate sur le cautionnement, un policier doit remettre au procureur de la Couronne l'information suivante, minimalement: une copie du document \u00e9tablissant les accusations criminelles, une description exacte des accusations et des circonstances dans lesquelles sont survenues les infractions, un casier judiciaire \u00e0 jour comprenant \u00e0 la fois une copie papier du dossier du CIPC et de celui du r\u00e9seau d'information en ligne concernant la justice, de l'information sur les accusations en instance, des copies des formulaires d'abandon des accusations et enfin, l'information d\u00e9taill\u00e9e sur la situation personnelle du pr\u00e9venu, comme son lieu de r\u00e9sidence, son emploi et ses liens avec la communaut\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837818\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le changement de libell\u00e9 que le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8082711\" href=\"/bills/42-1/S-217/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (detention in custody)\">S-217</a> propose \u00e0 l'article 518 du Code criminel afin de remplacer les mots \u00ab peut pr\u00e9senter \u00bb par \u00ab pr\u00e9sente \u00bb est la bonne fa\u00e7on de proc\u00e9der pour modifier le syst\u00e8me judiciaire et le Code criminel. Le projet de loi S-217 n'imposera pas de fardeau excessif au syst\u00e8me, \u00e0 mon avis. Il ne constituera pas de fardeau financier pour les divers ordres de gouvernement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837819\" data-originallang=\"en\">Selon moi, l'information demand\u00e9e est d\u00e9j\u00e0 accessible par les documents que les policiers remettent aux procureurs lors des enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement. J'ai personnellement d\u00e9j\u00e0 acquis tous les renseignements mentionn\u00e9s dans le cadre des programmes que les services policiers utilisent d\u00e9j\u00e0.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837820\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans la vie, il faut prendre des d\u00e9cisions. Quand on prend des d\u00e9cisions, il faut faire des recherches, nous renseigner puis d\u00e9terminer ce qui est le mieux avant d'aller de l'avant. Il n'en va pas autrement dans notre syst\u00e8me judiciaire. Nous voulons que les d\u00e9cisions rendues \u00e0 l'issue des enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement soient \u00e9clair\u00e9es. Ce projet de loi n'en est pas un de r\u00e9pression. Il s'agit de faire preuve de justice, d'honn\u00eatet\u00e9 et d'ouverture envers le public sur la criminalit\u00e9. En bout de ligne, nous voulons que le public fasse confiance au syst\u00e8me judiciaire et nous voulons pouvoir regarder tous les citoyens canadiens, y compris ceux qui sont accus\u00e9s de crimes, et leur dire que nous avons pris une d\u00e9cision \u00e0 la lumi\u00e8re de toute l'information disponible. Nos citoyens m\u00e9ritent la v\u00e9rit\u00e9. Il n'en va pas autrement lors des enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837821\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/michael-elliott-1/",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:15:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": "Le pr\u00e9sident"
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837822\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you very much, Mr. Elliott.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837823\" data-originallang=\"en\">Now we will go to Mr. Trudell.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837822\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci beaucoup, monsieur Elliott.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837823\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous allons maintenant entendre Me Trudell.</p>"
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"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/the-chair-3/",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:15:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell (Chair, Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers)",
"fr": "Me William Trudell (pr\u00e9sident, Conseil canadien des avocats de la d\u00e9fense)"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837824\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and honourable members of the committee. It's an honour to be here.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837825\" data-originallang=\"en\">I am chair of the Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers, which was formed as a council in 1992. For those of you who don't know, where there is a strong criminal defence organization in a province, we have a representative. Where there is none, like in the north, we have a representative. We voice and assist on legislation from across the country from a defence council's point of view.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837826\" data-originallang=\"en\">Before we started, I said to Ms. MacInnis-Wynn that I, too, thought she was incredibly brave. I acknowledged as best I could the pain she has gone through. I also said and apologized in advance that I would probably be saying things that she, and perhaps Mr. Elliott, would not agree with. But it comes in the spirit of all of us trying to help and make the criminal justice system work better. With the greatest respect, I hope that you accept these comments in the spirit in which they're given.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837827\" data-originallang=\"en\">Something has happened in this country in the last five years that is remarkable. Actually, I'm going to expand it to maybe the last eight or nine years. One of the things that happened was that in Vancouver, about 10 years ago, the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, together with a couple of judges, decided there should be a forum on reinventing criminal justice. Fifty people were invited to a closed-door meeting. At that meeting, we found that all the different stakeholders have more in common than not. That has led to the 10th and its collaborative study of criminal justice.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837828\" data-originallang=\"en\">The federal-provincial-territorial ministers of justice formed the Steering Committee on Justice Efficiencies and Access to the Justice System, a committee of 15 defence counsel, chief justices from the high courts and provinces, representatives from the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, and deputy ministers to meet collaboratively to look at criminal justice issues. One of the common features in both of those studies, those programs, those committees, is the front-end management of the criminal justice system, including the problems with bail and with mental health.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837829\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I want to recommend to the committee the report of the National Criminal Justice Symposium on reinventing criminal justice, and the report of the Steering Committee on Justice Efficiencies, which has studied bail, which has studied early case consideration, as you're probably aware. Probably in every province right now, provincial governments are studying criminal justice because of the impetus here from Parliament in Ottawa in looking at restorative justice, looking at the Criminal Code, and looking at bail. Bail is actively being studied in just about every province.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837830\" data-originallang=\"en\">I understand. I commend, for what it's worth, the person who introduced this bill to try to deal with a tragedy, to see whether or not there needed to be a legislative change. But the legislative change that you\u2014and this is your job, not ours\u2014may introduce and pass is legislation that affects the entire country. It is not legislation that responds to a terrible tragedy.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837831\" data-originallang=\"en\"> My respectful submission is\u2014and I'll help as best I can\u2014is that we do not have a legislative failure here in this case, but a systemic failure. All of the factors that my friend, Mr. Elliott, referred to, the primary, secondary and tertiary grounds, are considered every day by the courts. The failure to pass information down the line is a mistake. It's a human mistake. I would like to respectfully submit that, as a result of that mistake, attention has been energized. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837832\" data-originallang=\"en\">My friend has referred to Ms. Irving's report. I've just been told that Deputy Armstrong did a report in Alberta. You are considering this. Indeed, criminal justice is a live topic.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837833\" data-originallang=\"en\">I hope that when you consider these provisions, you look at this in the big picture and try to understand the impact in Nunavut, as well as in Toronto, in Prince Albert, as well as in St. John's.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837834\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837824\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci beaucoup, monsieur le pr\u00e9sident, et honorables membres du comit\u00e9. C'est pour moi un honneur d'\u00eatre ici aujourd'hui.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837825\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je suis le pr\u00e9sident du Conseil canadien des avocats de la d\u00e9fense qui a \u00e9t\u00e9 fond\u00e9 en 1992. Pour ceux qui ne le savent pas, dans toutes les provinces o\u00f9 il y a une forte organisation de d\u00e9fense criminelle, nous avons un repr\u00e9sentant. L\u00e0 o\u00f9 il n'y en n'a pas, comme dans le Nord, nous avons un repr\u00e9sentant. Nous prenons position et contribuons \u00e0 la r\u00e9daction des lois partout au Canada du point de vue des avocats de la d\u00e9fense.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837826\" data-originallang=\"en\">Avant le d\u00e9but de la s\u00e9ance, j'ai dit \u00e0 Mme MacInnis-Wynn \u00e0 quel point je la trouve, moi aussi, extr\u00eamement brave. Je reconnais de mon mieux la souffrance qu'elle vit. Je me suis \u00e9galement excus\u00e9 \u00e0 l'avance pour les propos que je tiendrai, parce qu'il y a probablement des choses avec lesquelles elle, et peut-\u00eatre M. Elliott, ne seront pas d'accord. Mon t\u00e9moignage s'inscrit dans l'objectif que nous contribuions tous \u00e0 rendre le syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale plus efficace. En toute d\u00e9f\u00e9rence, j'esp\u00e8re que vous accepterez ces commentaires et que vous comprendrez l'esprit dans lequel je les fais.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837827\" data-originallang=\"en\">Une chose remarquable s'est produite au Canada au cours des cinq derni\u00e8res ann\u00e9es. J'irais m\u00eame jusqu'\u00e0 dire au cours des huit ou neuf derni\u00e8res ann\u00e9es. Il se trouve qu'\u00e0 Vancouver, il y a environ une dizaine d'ann\u00e9es, l'Association canadienne des chefs de police, de concert avec quelques juges, a d\u00e9termin\u00e9 qu'il devrait y avoir un forum afin de r\u00e9inventer le syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale. Cinquante personnes ont \u00e9t\u00e9 invit\u00e9es \u00e0 une rencontre derri\u00e8re des portes closes. Lors de cette rencontre, nous nous sommes rendu compte que les divers acteurs du milieu avaient bien plus de points en commun que de divergences d'opinions. Tout cela a men\u00e9 \u00e0 cette 10<sup>e</sup> rencontre et \u00e0 une \u00e9tude collaborative sur le syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837828\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les ministres f\u00e9d\u00e9raux, provinciaux et territoriaux de la Justice ont constitu\u00e9 le Comit\u00e9 directeur sur l'efficacit\u00e9 et l'acc\u00e8s en mati\u00e8re de justice, qui se compose de 15 avocats de la d\u00e9fense, des juges en chef des cours sup\u00e9rieures, de repr\u00e9sentants des provinces, de repr\u00e9sentants de l'Association canadienne des chefs de police et des sous-ministres, qui se rencontrent dans un esprit de collaboration afin de se pencher sur les probl\u00e8mes de justice p\u00e9nale. L'un des th\u00e8mes communs de ces deux \u00e9tudes, de ces programmes et de ces comit\u00e9s, c'est la gestion en amont du syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale, y compris les probl\u00e8mes relatifs \u00e0 la lib\u00e9ration sous caution et \u00e0 la sant\u00e9 mentale.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837829\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'aimerais recommander au Comit\u00e9 le rapport du Symposium national sur la justice p\u00e9nale, qui portait sur le th\u00e8me R\u00e9inventer le syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale, ainsi que le rapport du Comit\u00e9 directeur sur l'efficacit\u00e9 et l'acc\u00e8s en mati\u00e8re de justice, qui aborde la question de la lib\u00e9ration sous caution et particuli\u00e8rement celle de l'examen prioritaire des dossiers, comme vous le savez probablement. Probablement tous les gouvernements provinciaux sont en train de revoir leur syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale sous l'impulsion du Parlement, \u00e0 Ottawa, par son examen de la justice r\u00e9paratrice, du Code criminel et de la lib\u00e9ration sous caution. Pratiquement toutes les provinces \u00e9tudient activement leur r\u00e9gime de lib\u00e9ration sous caution.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837830\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je comprends. Pour ce que cela vaut, je f\u00e9licite la personne qui a d\u00e9pos\u00e9 ce projet de loi afin d'essayer de panser les plaies d'une trag\u00e9die et de d\u00e9terminer s'il y a lieu de modifier la loi. Cela dit, cette modification l\u00e9gislative, que vous pouvez proposer et adopter, puisque c'est votre travail et non le n\u00f4tre, touchera tout le pays. Ce n'est pas un projet de loi qui r\u00e9pond \u00e0 une terrible trag\u00e9die.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837831\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vous soumets en toute d\u00e9f\u00e9rence \u2014 et je suis pr\u00eat \u00e0 vous aider au meilleur de mes comp\u00e9tences \u2014, qu'il n'y a pas de faille dans la loi dans ce cas-ci, mais qu'il y a eu un \u00e9chec du syst\u00e8me. Tous les facteurs cit\u00e9s par mon ami, M. Elliott, soit les motifs principal, secondaire et tertiaire, sont \u00e9valu\u00e9s tous les jours par les tribunaux. Le fait que l'information n'ait pas \u00e9t\u00e9 transmise est une erreur. C'est une erreur humaine. Je soutiens, en toute d\u00e9f\u00e9rence, qu'\u00e0 cause de cette erreur, beaucoup d'attention a \u00e9t\u00e9 mobilis\u00e9e.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837832\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mon ami a mentionn\u00e9 le rapport de Mme Irving. On vient de me dire que la sous-ministre Armstrong a publi\u00e9 un rapport en Alberta. Vous \u00e9tudiez ce projet de loi. Effectivement, la justice p\u00e9nale est un sujet bien vivant.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837833\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'esp\u00e8re que dans l'\u00e9tude de ces dispositions, vous tiendrez compte du portrait g\u00e9n\u00e9ral et que vous essaierez de comprendre leur incidence autant au Nunavut, qu'\u00e0 Toronto, \u00e0 Prince Albert ou \u00e0 St. John's. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837834\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/42-1/51/william-trudell-1/",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": "Le pr\u00e9sident"
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837835\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you very much, Mr. Trudell.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837836\" data-originallang=\"en\">We very much appreciate all of the testimony we've heard today.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837837\" data-originallang=\"en\">I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome to the committee today Mr. Sean Fraser, who is replacing Mr. MacKinnon; Mr. Dub\u00e9, who is replacing Mr. MacGregor; and Mr. Diotte, who is sitting in on our meeting today.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837838\" data-originallang=\"en\">Welcome, all of you.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837839\" data-originallang=\"en\">We're going to start with Mr. Nicholson.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837840\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Nicholson, the floor is yours, sir.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837835\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci beaucoup, ma\u00eetre Trudell.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837836\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous appr\u00e9cions beaucoup tous les t\u00e9moignages que nous avons entendus aujourd'hui.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837837\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'aimerais saisir l'occasion de souhaiter la bienvenue au Comit\u00e9 aujourd'hui \u00e0 M. Sean Fraser, qui remplace M. MacKinnon; \u00e0 M. Dub\u00e9, qui remplace M. MacGregor; ainsi qu'\u00e0 M. Diotte, qui assiste \u00e0 notre s\u00e9ance aujourd'hui.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837838\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vous souhaite \u00e0 tous la bienvenue.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837839\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous commencerons par M. Nicholson.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837840\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur Nicholson, la parole est \u00e0 vous.</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Rob Nicholson (Niagara Falls, CPC)",
"fr": "L'hon. Rob Nicholson (Niagara Falls, PCC)"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837841\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you very much.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837842\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you, lady and gentlemen, for your testimony here today.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837843\" data-originallang=\"en\">Shelly MacInnis-Wynn, thank you so much for coming here today. You've made a difference in bringing attention to this gap in the Criminal Code's provisions, and I want to thank you very much again for your testimony here today.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837844\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Elliott, you pointed out that it's usually the case that whoever's conducting these bail hearings gets all this information, and that it would be an exception to the rule if they didn't get the information with respect to a person's past, either criminal record or breaches of bail or anything else. Is that correct?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837841\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci infiniment. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837842\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vous remercie, mesdames et messieurs, de votre t\u00e9moignage ici aujourd'hui.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837843\" data-originallang=\"en\">Shelly MacInnis-Wynn, je vous remercie infiniment d'\u00eatre parmi nous aujourd'hui. Vous avez fait une diff\u00e9rence afin d'attirer l'attention sur cette faille dans les dispositions du Code criminel, et je tiens \u00e0 vous remercier sinc\u00e8rement de votre t\u00e9moignage, ici aujourd'hui.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837844\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur Elliott, vous avez soulign\u00e9 qu'habituellement, quiconque effectue une enqu\u00eate sur le cautionnement re\u00e7oit toute cette information et que c'est l'exception \u00e0 la r\u00e8gle que les enqu\u00eateurs ne re\u00e7oivent pas l'information sur les ant\u00e9c\u00e9dents de la personne, comme son casier criminel, son non-respect des conditions de libert\u00e9 sous caution ou toute autre chose. Est-ce exact?</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Michael Elliott",
"fr": "M. Michael Elliott"
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837845\" data-originallang=\"en\">If I understand your question, the systems that we have before us are what I refer to as CPIC and JOIN. JOIN is like a justice online information check. When we do CPIC checks of an accused, we get their previous information. When I say \u201cprevious information\u201d, that's what their convictions are and what charges against them have been withdrawn or taken away from them. We do a JOIN check, because JOIN can actually provide information to us that shows what criminal charges are before\u2014</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837845\" data-originallang=\"en\">Si je comprends bien votre question, les syst\u00e8mes dont nous disposons actuellement sont ce que j'appelle le CIPC et le JOIN, qui permet de v\u00e9rifier l'information en ligne concernant la justice. Quand on fait des v\u00e9rifications au CIPC sur un pr\u00e9venu, on re\u00e7oit de l'information sur ses ant\u00e9c\u00e9dents. J'entends par \u00ab ant\u00e9c\u00e9dents \u00bb la liste des condamnations dont la personne a fait l'objet ainsi que des accusations port\u00e9es contre elle qui ont \u00e9t\u00e9 retir\u00e9es ou abandonn\u00e9es. Nous v\u00e9rifions ce qu'il y a dans le JOIN, parce qu'il peut contenir de l'information sur les accusations criminelles en instance...</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Rob Nicholson",
"fr": "L'hon. Rob Nicholson"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837846\" data-originallang=\"en\">But in most cases, this is before the court. Is that correct?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837846\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mais dans la plupart des cas, les tribunaux ont d\u00e9j\u00e0 l'information, n'est-ce pas?</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Michael Elliott",
"fr": "M. Michael Elliott"
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837847\" data-originallang=\"en\">That's correct, sir.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837847\" data-originallang=\"en\">Oui, monsieur.</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Rob Nicholson",
"fr": "L'hon. Rob Nicholson"
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837848\" data-originallang=\"en\">One of the issues we had the last time we were here was that one of the witnesses was saying that we were going to increase exponentially the time it's going to take to do these things. I made the point to him\u2014and you're confirming this\u2014that most of this information is before the court in any case, isn't it?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837848\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le probl\u00e8me qui s'est pos\u00e9, la derni\u00e8re fois, c'est que l'un des t\u00e9moins laissait entendre que cette mesure allait rallonger de fa\u00e7on exponentielle la dur\u00e9e de ces enqu\u00eates. Je lui ai fait valoir \u2014 et vous me le confirmez \u2014 que dans la plupart des cas, les tribunaux ont d\u00e9j\u00e0 ces renseignements, n'est-ce pas?</p>"
},
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"source_id": "9460119",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Michael Elliott",
"fr": "M. Michael Elliott"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837849\" data-originallang=\"en\">If CPIC and JOIN are up to date, there should be no reason not to acquire that information. We do it on a daily basis. Actually, I call it protocol. Every time we arrest an accused, we do a CPIC and JOIN check to obtain this information to find out if we can release an accused, such as on a promise to appear, or if we have to, depending on the circumstances, present the person before a justice of the peace to see if the person will seek bail.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837849\" data-originallang=\"en\">Si le CIPC et le JOIN sont \u00e0 jour, il n'y a aucune raison pour laquelle on n'irait pas chercher l'information. Nous les consultons tous les jours. En fait, c'est ce que j'appelle le protocole. Chaque fois que nous arr\u00eatons quelqu'un, nous faisons une v\u00e9rification au CIPC et dans le JOIN, afin de d\u00e9terminer si nous pouvons lib\u00e9rer le pr\u00e9venu, avec promesse de compara\u00eetre, par exemple, ou si nous devons, selon les circonstances, pr\u00e9senter la personne \u00e0 un juge de paix pour voir si la personne demandera une lib\u00e9ration sous caution.</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Rob Nicholson",
"fr": "L'hon. Rob Nicholson"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837850\" data-originallang=\"en\">That's good. This is what we have to have.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837851\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Trudell, you indicated that this was a systemic failure, but isn't that what this bill is about doing\u2014correcting the possibility that we could have a systemic failure?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837850\" data-originallang=\"en\">Tr\u00e8s bien. C'est ce qu'il faut.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837851\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ma\u00eetre Trudell, vous soutenez qu'il y a eu un \u00e9chec du syst\u00e8me, dans ce cas-ci, mais ce projet de loi ne vise-t-il pas justement \u00e0 \u00e9liminer la possibilit\u00e9 d'un \u00e9chec du syst\u00e8me?</p>"
},
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"source_id": "9460124",
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837852\" data-originallang=\"en\">No, with great respect, sir, the bill is a legislative change to the Criminal Code. I've tried to get up to speed, and I'm happy that Mr. Elliott referred to it. I've read a couple of the reports. As a result of this, there was a decision by Chief Justice Wittmann dealing with police officers doing bail hearings, etc., in Alberta. But what I understand is that the information that may have been available\u2014certainly was available someplace\u2014was not conveyed.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837852\" data-originallang=\"en\">Non, en toute d\u00e9f\u00e9rence, monsieur, ce projet de loi propose une modification l\u00e9gislative au Code criminel. J'ai essay\u00e9 de me mettre \u00e0 jour, et je suis bien content que M. Elliott l'ait mentionn\u00e9. J'ai lu divers rapports. Pour cette raison, le juge en chef Wittmann a rendu une d\u00e9cision au sujet des policiers qui m\u00e8nent des enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement en Alberta, mais d'apr\u00e8s ce que je comprends, il y a de l'information qui aurait \u00e9t\u00e9 accessible quelque part qui n'a pas \u00e9t\u00e9 transmise dans ce cas-ci. </p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Rob Nicholson",
"fr": "L'hon. Rob Nicholson"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837853\" data-originallang=\"en\">That's right.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837853\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est vrai.</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837854\" data-originallang=\"en\">You can't legislate the failure to communicate, and that's what happened here.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837855\" data-originallang=\"en\">Let me say this: most defence counsel will tell you that the bail hearing is the most important aspect of the criminal justice system, because it's the front end. A determination is made as to whether or not your client's right under the charter is going to be met. A client in custody starts, in effect, serving their sentence, and the pressure is incredible. I can tell you, with the greatest of respect, that after 40 some odd years of experience, bail hearings are taken very seriously by crown counsel\u2014 </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837854\" data-originallang=\"en\">On ne peut pas l\u00e9gif\u00e9rer pour emp\u00eacher les probl\u00e8mes de communication, et c'est ce qui est arriv\u00e9 dans ce cas-ci.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4837855\" data-originallang=\"en\">Permettez-moi de dire ceci: la plupart des avocats de la d\u00e9fense vous diront que l'enqu\u00eate sur le cautionnement est l'\u00e9l\u00e9ment le plus important du syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale, parce qu'elle survient en amont. C'est l\u00e0 qu'on d\u00e9termine si les droits du client en vertu de la Charte seront respect\u00e9s. Le client plac\u00e9 en d\u00e9tention sous garde se trouve en fait \u00e0 commencer \u00e0 purger sa peine et vit une pression incroyable. Je peux vous dire, avec le plus grand respect, apr\u00e8s une quarantaine d'ann\u00e9es d'exp\u00e9rience, que les enqu\u00eates sur le cautionnement sont prises tr\u00e8s au s\u00e9rieux par les procureurs de la Couronne... </p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Rob Nicholson",
"fr": "L'hon. Rob Nicholson"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837856\" data-originallang=\"en\">That's right, and this is why they have to have all the information before them, don't they?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837856\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est vrai, et c'est pourquoi ils doivent recevoir toute l'information, n'est-ce pas? </p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:20:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. William Trudell",
"fr": "Me William Trudell"
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837857\" data-originallang=\"en\"> With the greatest respect, you don't need legislation to tell someone that they need the information. The bill creates problems in that sense. </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837857\" data-originallang=\"en\">En toute d\u00e9f\u00e9rence, nous n'avons pas besoin d'une loi pour dire aux gens qu'ils ont besoin de l'information. Ce projet de loi cr\u00e9e un probl\u00e8me en ce sens.</p>"
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{
"time": "2017-04-04 16:25:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Michael Cooper (St. Albert\u2014Edmonton, CPC)",
"fr": "M. Michael Cooper (St. Albert\u2014Edmonton, PCC)"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837858\" data-originallang=\"en\">In what sense?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4837858\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans quel sens?</p>"
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