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This is a list
of speeches
from the openparliament.ca API. If you’re new here, you might want to look at the documentation. If API and JSON are gibberish to you, you’re better off at our main site.
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{
"objects": [
{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:30:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair (Mr. Art Hanger (Calgary Northeast, CPC))",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230606\" data-originallang=\"en\">I call the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to order.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230607\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I know it was agreed upon by the steering committee and the committee as a whole to examine the estimates. In this particular case, given the fact that so often there is such a cursory examination at best, and really you don't have an opportunity to dig a little deeper, it was decided that two programs would be viewed over the next couple of days, one being the area of the drug treatment courts and the other being legal aid.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230608\" data-originallang=\"en\">I'm pleased that three members of the Department of Justice are here. Welcome to the committee Mr. Piragoff, Ms. Merriam, and Ms. Latimer, and thank you for attending. I know you will have the opportunity to explain the mandate of each of the areas that we are looking at. I trust this will give us the basis for the line of questioning we'd like to follow. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230609\" data-originallang=\"en\">Regarding legal aid, I trust that all the members have the information from the Library of Parliament. On the first page of the presentation, the fifth paragraph reflects some of the mandate and the purpose behind each of these particular programs. For legal aid, of course the issue is accessibility to all Canadians, and the goal, as stated here, is to try to ensure that the legal system may be fairly accessed by all Canadians, regardless of their financial status.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230610\" data-originallang=\"en\"> In terms of safety, an important program provided through funding by the department is that of the drug treatment courts. These courts are designed to deal with the revolving door of those who are addicted to drugs, as they come in and out of the justice system on a regular basis. The drug treatment courts are designed to deal with the root causes of criminal behaviour, not simply the after-effects. I would assume that's where our questions would be focused: on these two particular programs and their mandates.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230611\" data-originallang=\"en\">So we could begin with Mr. Piragoff, the deputy minister. Sir, we're ready for your presentation, if you would like to begin.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230606\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je d\u00e9clare ouverte cette s\u00e9ance du Comit\u00e9 permanent de la justice et des droits de la personne.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230607\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il a \u00e9t\u00e9 convenu en comit\u00e9 directeur et par le comit\u00e9 pl\u00e9nier d'examiner le budget principal des d\u00e9penses. Dans le cas qui nous occupe aujourd'hui, \u00e9tant donn\u00e9 que cet examen est souvent tr\u00e8s superficiel au mieux et qu'on a rarement l'occasion d'approfondir cette \u00e9tude, il a \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9cid\u00e9 de se consacrer \u00e0 deux programmes au cours des prochains jours, soit les tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie et l'aide juridique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230608\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je suis heureux d'accueillir \u00e0 cette fin trois repr\u00e9sentants du minist\u00e8re de la Justice. Je souhaite la bienvenue \u00e0 monsieur Piragoff, \u00e0 madame Merriam et \u00e0 madame Latimer. Merci d'\u00eatre venus. Je suis certain que vous pourrez nous expliquer chacun des programmes sur lesquels nous avons d\u00e9cid\u00e9 de nous pencher et que cela nous donnera mati\u00e8re \u00e0 question par la suite.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230609\" data-originallang=\"en\">Au sujet de l'aide juridique, j'esp\u00e8re que tous les d\u00e9put\u00e9s ont re\u00e7u le document de la Biblioth\u00e8que du Parlement. Le cinqui\u00e8me paragraphe d\u00e9crit en partie le mandat et l'objet de chacun de ces programmes. Pour l'aide juridique, bien s\u00fbr, l'objectif est de garantir \u00e0 tous les Canadiens l'acc\u00e8s \u00e0 la justice et, comme on le dit dans ce document, de faire en sorte que le syst\u00e8me de justice soit accessible \u00e0 tous les Canadiens, \u00e9quitablement, sans \u00e9gard \u00e0 leur situation financi\u00e8re. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230610\" data-originallang=\"en\">Quant \u00e0 la s\u00e9curit\u00e9, un programme important qui est offert gr\u00e2ce au financement procur\u00e9 par le minist\u00e8re est celui des tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie. Ces tribunaux sont con\u00e7us pour rompre le cycle de la consommation et de la r\u00e9cidive chez les toxicomanes qui sont r\u00e9guli\u00e8rement en contact avec le syst\u00e8me de justice. Il vise \u00e0 s'attaquer aux causes profondes du comportement criminel et non \u00e0 ses seules cons\u00e9quences. Je pr\u00e9sume que nos questions porteront surtout sur ces deux programmes et leur mandat. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230611\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous allons donc commencer par c\u00e9der la parole au sous-ministre, M. Piragoff. Monsieur, nous sommes pr\u00eats \u00e0 vous \u00e9couter, si vous voulez bien commencer.</p>"
},
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"source_id": "1702440",
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},
{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:35:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Donald Piragoff (Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Justice)",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230612\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you, Mr. Chairman.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230613\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Members of the Justice Committee, it is my pleasure to appear before you to answer questions regarding funding of Legal Aid and the Drug Treatment Court Funding Program.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230614\" data-originallang=\"en\">The department will continue working closely with our provincial and territorial counterparts to promote the development and implementation of legal aid policy under the auspices of the federal-provincial-territorial permanent working group on legal aid. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230615\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I would now like to turn your attention to the drug treatment court funding program. It is managed jointly by the Department of Justice and Health Canada and was initiated in May 2003. The objectives of the program are to promote and strengthen the use of alternatives to incarceration, with a particular focus on youth, aboriginal men and women, and street prostitutes; to build knowledge and awareness among criminal justice, health, and social service practitioners and the general public about drug treatment courts; and to collect information and data on the effectiveness of drug treatment courts in order to promote best practices and continue refining approaches. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230616\" data-originallang=\"en\">Drug treatment courts were established as pilot projects in Toronto in December 1998, and in Vancouver in December 2001. They are based on the successful drug treatment courts in the United States, of which there are now more than 1,000. Both the Toronto and Vancouver courts have shown promise in reducing addiction and repeat offences in those areas. The drug treatment court funding program supports four new courts in Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, and Ottawa, and continues to fund existing courts in Toronto and Vancouver. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230617\" data-originallang=\"en\">Each of the funding recipients must report annually on the results of their activities. These results are used to support annual reports to Parliament and the Canadian public and to inform others who may want to establish drug treatment courts in their communities. This reporting activity also helps to ensure that best practices and standards are consistent across the various jurisdictions, while supporting the needs of individual communities where courts are located. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230618\" data-originallang=\"en\">The courts use court-monitored treatment and community service support for non-violent offenders with drug addictions. The participants must enter a structured outpatient program where they must attend both individual and group counselling sessions, receive appropriate medical attention such as methadone treatment, and submit to random drug tests. Participants must also appear regularly in court, where judges review their progress. If that progress is positive, judges may reward participants verbally. However, should conditions not be met, judges may impose sanctions ranging from verbal reprimands to expulsion from the program. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230619\" data-originallang=\"en\">The drug treatment court system understands that participants have other basic needs, such as safe housing, stable employment, and job training. Staff members worked with partners in the community to help address those needs as well. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230620\" data-originallang=\"en\">Once a participant gains a measure of social stability and can demonstrate control over the addiction, he or she is likely to receive a non-custodial sentence, meaning restrictions other than going to jail. However, if an offender is unsuccessful, the offender will be sentenced as part of the regular court process. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230621\" data-originallang=\"en\">Funding from the Department of Justice and Health Canada is helping to support court-monitored treatment of drug-addicted offenders who have committed crimes to support their drug habits. The program promotes drug abstinence and holds offenders accountable for their actions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230622\" data-originallang=\"en\">Now that I've briefly described the two programs, we would be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have in this regard. Thank you.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230612\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci, monsieur le pr\u00e9sident.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230613\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Messieurs et mesdames membres du Comit\u00e9 de la justice, je suis heureux de compara\u00eetre devant vous pour r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 vos questions au sujet du financement de l'aide juridique et du Programme de financement des tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230614\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le minist\u00e8re continuera de travailler en \u00e9troite collaboration avec ses homologues des provinces et des territoires pour promouvoir l'\u00e9laboration et la mise en oeuvre d'une politique en mati\u00e8re d'aide juridique sous l'\u00e9gide du groupe de travail permanent f\u00e9d\u00e9ral-provincial-territorial sur l'aide juridique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230615\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'aimerais maintenant vous toucher quelques mots sur le programme de financement des tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie. Ce programme, cr\u00e9\u00e9 en mai 2003, est g\u00e9r\u00e9 par le minist\u00e8re de la Justice et le minist\u00e8re de la Sant\u00e9. Ses objectifs sont de promouvoir et rehausser le recours aux mesures de rechange \u00e0 l'incarc\u00e9ration, surtout dans le cas des adolescents, des hommes et des femmes autochtones et des prostitu\u00e9s de rue, d'informer et de sensibiliser les praticiens du syst\u00e8me de justice p\u00e9nale, du syst\u00e8me de sant\u00e9 et des services sociaux, ainsi que le grand public, au sujet des tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie et de recueillir des donn\u00e9es et des informations sur l'efficacit\u00e9 de ces tribunaux afin de promouvoir des pratiques exemplaires et d'am\u00e9liorer les diff\u00e9rentes approches.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230616\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie ont \u00e9t\u00e9 \u00e9tablis dans le cadre de projets pilotes \u00e0 Toronto en d\u00e9cembre 1998 et \u00e0 Vancouver en d\u00e9cembre 2001. On a pris pour mod\u00e8le les tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie des \u00c9tats-Unis, qui en comptent plus d'un millier et qui ont connu un grand succ\u00e8s. Les tribunaux de Toronto et de Vancouver ont donn\u00e9 des r\u00e9sultats prometteurs dans la r\u00e9duction de la toxicomanie et de la r\u00e9cidive. Le programme de financement des tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie appuie quatre nouvelles cours, soit \u00e0 Edmonton, \u00e0 Regina, \u00e0 Winnipeg et \u00e0 Ottawa, et continue de financer les tribunaux de Toronto et de Vancouver. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230617\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les b\u00e9n\u00e9ficiaires de fonds dans le cadre de ce programme doivent chaque ann\u00e9e pr\u00e9senter un rapport sur leurs r\u00e9sultats. Ces r\u00e9sultats servent de fondement aux rapports annuels pr\u00e9sent\u00e9s au Parlement et \u00e0 la population canadienne et informent ceux qui voudraient cr\u00e9er un tel tribunal dans leurs localit\u00e9s. Ces rapports visent aussi \u00e0 faire en sorte que les pratiques exemplaires et les normes soient les m\u00eames dans tous ces endroits et \u00e0 r\u00e9pondre aux besoins des collectivit\u00e9s o\u00f9 se trouvent ces tribunaux.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230618\" data-originallang=\"en\">Gr\u00e2ce \u00e0 des programmes de traitement contr\u00f4l\u00e9s par le tribunal et des services communautaires, ces tribunaux aident les contrevenants non-violents qui sont toxicomanes. Les participants doivent s'inscrire \u00e0 un programme structur\u00e9 en milieu externe comprenant des s\u00e9ances de counselling individuelles et en groupe, recevoir les soins m\u00e9dicaux dont ils ont besoin, tels que le traitement \u00e0 la m\u00e9thadone, et se soumettre \u00e0 des tests de d\u00e9pistage effectu\u00e9s au hasard. Les participants doivent aussi se pr\u00e9senter r\u00e9guli\u00e8rement devant le tribunal o\u00f9 les juges \u00e9valuent leur progr\u00e8s. Si les juges sont satisfaits de ces progr\u00e8s, ils en f\u00e9licitent les participants, mais si ceux-ci n'ont pas rempli toutes les conditions qui leur ont \u00e9t\u00e9 impos\u00e9es, les juges peuvent imposer des sanctions allant d'une r\u00e9primande verbale \u00e0 l'expulsion du programme.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230619\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le r\u00e9gime des tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie a \u00e9t\u00e9 con\u00e7u de fa\u00e7on \u00e0 r\u00e9pondre aux autres besoins de base des participants, tels qu'un endroit s\u00fbr o\u00f9 se loger, un emploi stable et une formation professionnelle. Les employ\u00e9s du programme collaborent avec les partenaires de la collectivit\u00e9 pour mieux r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 ses besoins.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230620\" data-originallang=\"en\">Une fois que le participant a atteint un certain niveau de stabilit\u00e9 sociale et qu'il peut prouver qu'il ma\u00eetrise sa d\u00e9pendance, il re\u00e7oit g\u00e9n\u00e9ralement une peine non privative de libert\u00e9, c'est-\u00e0-dire des restrictions plut\u00f4t que l'incarc\u00e9ration. Toutefois, si le d\u00e9linquant ne r\u00e9alise aucun progr\u00e8s, il recevra sa peine aux termes de la proc\u00e9dure judiciaire habituelle. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230621\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le financement accord\u00e9 par le minist\u00e8re de la Justice et Sant\u00e9 Canada sert au traitement contr\u00f4l\u00e9 par le tribunal des d\u00e9linquants toxicomanes qui ont commis des infractions pour subvenir \u00e0 leurs besoins de consommateurs de drogue. Le programme fait la promotion de l'abstinence et tient les d\u00e9linquants responsables de leurs actes.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230622\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vous ai d\u00e9crit bri\u00e8vement les deux programmes. Nous serons maintenant heureux de r\u00e9pondre aux questions des membres du comit\u00e9. Merci.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/donald-piragoff-1/",
"politician_url": null,
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"procedural": false,
"source_id": "1702473",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/"
},
{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230623\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you, sir.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230624\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ms. Barnes, please.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230623\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci, monsieur.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230624\" data-originallang=\"en\">Madame Barnes, vous avez la parole.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/the-chair-2/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/131/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1238/",
"procedural": true,
"source_id": "1702531",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/"
},
{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Sue Barnes (London West, Lib.)",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230625\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230626\" data-originallang=\"en\">First I'll put on the record--with no disrespect to the three people sitting before us as witnesses, and I don't envy their position--that when we had the earlier meeting with the minister, I asked for the minister to be able to talk to us about legal aid and drug courts. Quite frankly, I don't believe it's within your purview to be able to answer the policy questions. So while it's nice to have you here and we welcome your information, it's not going to be particularly useful. I haven't seen before where a minister doesn't want to defend his own estimates. Certainly when the people sitting in government now were in opposition, they wouldn't have stood for this. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230627\" data-originallang=\"en\">So I will ask some of the questions and see if you can answer them. </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230625\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230626\" data-originallang=\"en\">Tout d'abord, je tiens \u00e0 dire aux fins du compte rendu \u2014 sans vouloir manquer de respect \u00e0 l'endroit des trois t\u00e9moins, dont je n'envie pas la position d'ailleurs \u2014 que, lors de la derni\u00e8re comparution du ministre, je lui avais demand\u00e9 de nous entretenir de l'aide juridique et des tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie. Tr\u00e8s honn\u00eatement, je ne crois pas qu'il soit de votre ressort de r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 nos questions sur les orientations politiques. Nous sommes heureux de vous accueillir et d'entendre les informations que vous avez \u00e0 nous donner, mais ces informations ne nous sont particuli\u00e8rement utiles. C'est la premi\u00e8re fois que je vois un ministre refuser de d\u00e9fendre son propre budget des d\u00e9penses. Il est certain que quand les minist\u00e9riels \u00e9taient dans l'opposition, ils ne l'auraient pas accept\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230627\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vous poserai tout de m\u00eame des questions, peut-\u00eatre pourriez-vous y r\u00e9pondre.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/sue-barnes-1/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/18/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/3194/",
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "1702532",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/"
},
{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230628\" data-originallang=\"en\">Excuse me, Ms. Barnes, in reference to those comments-- </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230628\" data-originallang=\"en\">Excusez-moi, madame Barnes, mais au sujet de ce que vous venez de dire...</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/the-chair-3/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/131/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1238/",
"procedural": true,
"source_id": "1702536",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/"
},
{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Sue Barnes",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230629\" data-originallang=\"en\">I hope this isn't on my time.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230629\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'esp\u00e8re que vous d\u00e9duirez votre intervention de mon temps de parole.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/sue-barnes-2/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/18/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/3194/",
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "1702540",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/"
},
{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230630\" data-originallang=\"en\">--the minister actually did appear on the estimates in May.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230630\" data-originallang=\"en\">...le ministre est venu t\u00e9moigner dans le cadre de l'examen du budget des d\u00e9penses en mai.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/the-chair-4/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/131/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1238/",
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"source_id": "1702542",
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},
{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Sue Barnes",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230631\" data-originallang=\"en\">Yes, and he didn't have the answers, because he had partial figures. We told him that he would come back and he would answer those questions. That's in the Hansard of those meetings, and he's not here today.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230631\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est vrai, mais il n'avait que des donn\u00e9es partielles \u00e0 nous donner et n'a pas r\u00e9pondu \u00e0 nos questions. Nous lui avons demand\u00e9 de revenir nous voir avec les r\u00e9ponses \u00e0 ces questions. Cela figure au compte rendu de ces r\u00e9unions. Or, il est absent aujourd'hui.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/sue-barnes-3/",
"politician_url": "/politicians/18/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/3194/",
"procedural": false,
"source_id": "1702543",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/"
},
{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230632\" data-originallang=\"en\">Right, but just to let you know, he did appear, in fact, on those particular points.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230632\" data-originallang=\"en\">Peut-\u00eatre, mais je vous signale qu'il a d\u00e9j\u00e0 t\u00e9moign\u00e9 sur ces questions.</p>"
},
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"politician_url": "/politicians/131/",
"politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1238/",
"procedural": true,
"source_id": "1702544",
"document_url": "/committees/justice/39-1/22/"
},
{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Sue Barnes",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230633\" data-originallang=\"en\">No, he didn't, because he couldn't answer the questions. We invited him back, that day, in the Hansard, and again I put it on the record when he was here on another bill. I understood that he would be here to answer, because the policy questions are not for officials. </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230633\" data-originallang=\"en\">Non, pas dans les faits, parce qu'il n'a pas pu r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 nos questions. Ce jour-l\u00e0, nous l'avons invit\u00e9 \u00e0 compara\u00eetre une autre fois devant notre comit\u00e9, cela figure au compte rendu de cette r\u00e9union-l\u00e0 ainsi que dans celui d'une autre r\u00e9union o\u00f9 il \u00e9tait venu nous pr\u00e9senter un projet de loi. Je m'attendais donc \u00e0 ce qu'il soit pr\u00e9sent aujourd'hui pour r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 nos questions, car ce n'est pas aux fonctionnaires qu'il incombe de r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 nos questions sur les politiques du gouvernement. </p>"
},
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"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "The Chair",
"fr": ""
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"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230634\" data-originallang=\"en\">Right. Understood.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230634\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est not\u00e9.</p>"
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{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Sue Barnes",
"fr": ""
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230635\" data-originallang=\"en\">So let's ask some of these questions. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230636\" data-originallang=\"en\">The planned contribution to the provinces to assist in the operation of legal aid systems will decrease, I understand, by $40 million. Can you give us the rationale for this change?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230635\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je poserai donc maintenant certaines de ces questions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230636\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je crois savoir que la contribution qu'on pr\u00e9voit de verser aux provinces pour l'aide juridique diminuera de 40 millions de dollars. Pouvez-vous nous dire ce qui justifie cette baisse? </p>"
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{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Donald Piragoff",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230637\" data-originallang=\"en\">It is a technical budget reporting discrepancy, but there actually is no proposed reduction in legal aid financing by the federal government for this year. What happened last year is that with the federal election at the end of November and a new government taking office in the winter, there was not sufficient time for cabinet to address this issue in the regular budget cycle. Accordingly, there is a discrepancy, as Ms. Barnes has indicated, of approximately $40 million. It is the intention of the minister to seek that amount in supplemental estimates such that the entire amount for legal aid for this fiscal year will equal the amount of last year. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230638\" data-originallang=\"en\">What happened is that on March 31, 2006, the three-year agreement with the provinces expired, and as I said, because a new government was in power and did not have sufficient time to discuss this issue with the provinces to negotiate a new agreement, the government decided to extend the terms of the existing three-year agreement for one more year at the 2005-06 levels.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230637\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est un \u00e9cart technique dans le rapport budg\u00e9taire. En fait, le gouvernement f\u00e9d\u00e9ral ne compte pas r\u00e9duire le financement de l'aide juridique cette ann\u00e9e. L'an dernier, avec les \u00e9lections f\u00e9d\u00e9rales \u00e0 la fin de novembre et l'arriv\u00e9e au pouvoir d'un nouveau gouvernement pendant l'hiver, le Cabinet n'a pas eu suffisamment de temps pour traiter de cette question dans le cycle budg\u00e9taire habituel. Par cons\u00e9quent, comme Mme Barnes a indiqu\u00e9, il y a un \u00e9cart de d'environ 40 millions de dollars. Le ministre a l'intention de demander cette somme dans un budget suppl\u00e9mentaire et, ainsi, le montant total qui sera vers\u00e9 pour l'aide juridique cette ann\u00e9e financi\u00e8re \u00e9quivaudra \u00e0 celui de l'an dernier. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230638\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le 31 mars 2006, l'accord triennal conclu avec les provinces est arriv\u00e9 \u00e0 \u00e9ch\u00e9ance et, comme je l'ai d\u00e9j\u00e0 dit, parce qu'un nouveau gouvernement venait d'entrer en fonction, on n'a pas eu le temps de tenir des discussions avec les provinces et de n\u00e9gocier une nouvelle entente. Le gouvernement a donc d\u00e9cid\u00e9 de prolonger l'accord triennal d'un an aux niveaux de 2005-2006</p>"
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"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Sue Barnes",
"fr": ""
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230639\" data-originallang=\"en\">That's fine. I understand that. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230640\" data-originallang=\"en\">Can you tell me what will happen, say, in my province of Ontario, where the provincial legal aid, which is responsible, is in a deficit situation? The year hasn't gone through, and yet we have legislation before us, in <a data-HoCid=\"2172003\" href=\"/bills/39-1/C-9/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conditional sentence of imprisonment)\">Bill C-9</a> and <a data-HoCid=\"2172019\" href=\"/bills/39-1/C-10/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (minimum penalties for offences involving firearms) and to make a consequential amendment to another Act\">Bill C-10</a>, that will put people at risk of going to prison. That's the test in my province: if they have a substantial risk of going to prison, they're supposed to be able to obtain legal aid. They're $10 million in debt right now in that system, so what is the federal government going to do and what were the discussions on those areas?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230639\" data-originallang=\"en\">D'accord, je comprends.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230640\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pouvez-vous me dire ce qui se passera, disons, dans la province de l'Ontario o\u00f9 l'aide juridique provinciale est en d\u00e9ficit? L'ann\u00e9e financi\u00e8re n'est pas encore termin\u00e9e et, d\u00e9j\u00e0, nous sommes saisis de projets de loi, les <a data-HoCid=\"2172003\" href=\"/bills/39-1/C-9/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conditional sentence of imprisonment)\">projets de loi C-9</a> et <a data-HoCid=\"2172019\" href=\"/bills/39-1/C-10/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (minimum penalties for offences involving firearms) and to make a consequential amendment to another Act\">C-10</a>, qui risquent d'entra\u00eener une augmentation de l'incarc\u00e9ration. Or, dans ma province, c'est le crit\u00e8re qu'on applique: Tout accus\u00e9 qui court un risque important d'\u00eatre incarc\u00e9r\u00e9 est cens\u00e9 pouvoir obtenir de l'aide juridique. L'aide juridique de l'Ontario a d\u00e9j\u00e0 une dette de 10 millions de dollars. Que compte faire le gouvernement f\u00e9d\u00e9ral et o\u00f9 en sont les discussions \u00e0 ce sujet?</p>"
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{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:45:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Donald Piragoff",
"fr": ""
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230641\" data-originallang=\"en\">First, as mentioned, there is the supplementary estimates request, which will provide the provinces with the full funding that they had last year. With respect to new pressures on the system, as indicated by federal-provincial-territorial ministers following their meeting last week in Newfoundland, ministers will continue to work together to look at the legal aid costs to try to reach a new agreement. They are also aware of the new funding pressures that would be created by new reforms.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230642\" data-originallang=\"en\">But I think each of the ministers who left that meeting last week understands that responsibility in the criminal justice area is a shared responsibility at both the federal and provincial levels. Provinces, for example, cannot continue to demand law reforms without at the same time shouldering some of the costs, but on the other hand, the federal government also realizes that, as a shared partner, it must also share some of the costs. The ministers have agreed to continue their discussions and look at the actual numbers.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230643\" data-originallang=\"en\">With respect to particular bills, as you know, you've heard testimony on <a data-HoCid=\"2172003\" href=\"/bills/39-1/C-9/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conditional sentence of imprisonment)\">Bill C-9</a>, for example, and there are differences with respect to what the cost implications would be. I believe the bill is going to clause-by-clause. There may be some amendments. The amendments may have the effect of actually reducing the financial impact on provinces, but that's something within your purview as MPs, as to what the scope of the impact would be, depending on the scope of the bill. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230644\" data-originallang=\"en\">But I do want to indicate that ministers did agree last week that they would continue to work cooperatively to address the costing pressures on the system, both existing, such as legal aid, and also new pressures as a result of law reform.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230641\" data-originallang=\"en\">D'abord, comme j'en ai fait mention, on demandera des cr\u00e9dits suppl\u00e9mentaires qui permettront aux provinces d'obtenir autant d'argent que l'an dernier. En ce qui concerne les nouvelles pressions qui s'exercent sur le syst\u00e8me de l'aide juridique, ainsi que l'ont indiqu\u00e9 les ministres f\u00e9d\u00e9ral-provinciaux et territoriaux \u00e0 l'issue de leur conf\u00e9rence qui s'est tenue \u00e0 Terre-Neuve la semaine derni\u00e8re, les ministres poursuivront leurs examens des co\u00fbts de l'aide juridique et leurs discussions en vue d'en arriver \u00e0 un nouvel accord. Ils sont tr\u00e8s conscients des nouvelles pressions qui pourraient s'exercer par suite de l'adoption de nouvelles r\u00e9formes.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230642\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je crois toutefois que tous les ministres qui \u00e9taient \u00e0 cette conf\u00e9rence la semaine derni\u00e8re comprennent que la justice p\u00e9nale est un champ de comp\u00e9tence partag\u00e9e. Les provinces ne peuvent continuer de demander des r\u00e9formes du droit p\u00e9nal sans accepter d'assumer une part des co\u00fbts. Pour sa part, le gouvernement f\u00e9d\u00e9ral comprend aussi qu'il a sa part des co\u00fbts \u00e0 assumer. Les ministres ont convenu de poursuivre leurs pourparlers et d'examiner les co\u00fbts r\u00e9els. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230643\" data-originallang=\"en\">En ce qui concerne les projets de loi dont vous avez fait mention, vous avez entendu des t\u00e9moignages sur le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"2172003\" href=\"/bills/39-1/C-9/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conditional sentence of imprisonment)\">C-9</a> par exemple, qui indique qu'on ne s'entend pas sur les co\u00fbts que cette mesure pourrait entra\u00eener. Je crois savoir que le projet de loi sera bient\u00f4t \u00e9tudi\u00e9 article par article. Des amendements seront peut-\u00eatre propos\u00e9s. Ces amendements auront peut-\u00eatre pour effet de r\u00e9duire l'incidence financi\u00e8re de cette mesure l\u00e9gislative sur les provinces, mais c'est \u00e0 vous, les d\u00e9put\u00e9s, qu'il incombe de d\u00e9terminer l'importance de ces effets en fonction de la port\u00e9e du projet de loi.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"230644\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je r\u00e9p\u00e8te donc que les ministres ont convenu la semaine derni\u00e8re de poursuivre leur collaboration en vue de limiter l'augmentation des co\u00fbts de l'aide juridique, autant les co\u00fbts actuels que les co\u00fbts pouvant d\u00e9couler de nouvelles r\u00e9forme du droit.</p>"
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{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:50:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Sue Barnes",
"fr": ""
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230645\" data-originallang=\"en\">I would like to look at the drug treatment courts. Is this the same discrepancy of $638,310, the same as the former situation with legal aid? </p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230645\" data-originallang=\"en\">Passons maintenant aux tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie. L'\u00e9cart de 638 310 $ qui existe pour ces programmes s'explique-t-il de la m\u00eame fa\u00e7on que celui que j'ai constat\u00e9 pour l'aide juridique? </p>"
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{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:50:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Ms. Barbara Merriam (Acting Director General, Department of Justice)",
"fr": ""
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230646\" data-originallang=\"en\">The drug treatment court funding program is shared between the Department of Justice and Health Canada. What you're seeing in the main estimates reflects the Justice portion and how the figures were profiled over the four-year period. So in 2005, it was $2,333,000. In 2006-07, it's $2,341,000.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230646\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Le financement du programme des tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie rel\u00e8ve du minist\u00e8re de la Justice et de Sant\u00e9 Canada. Ce que vous voyez dans le budget principal des d\u00e9penses, c'est la part du minist\u00e8re de la Justice et la ventilation sur quatre ans. En 2005, on a vers\u00e9 2 333 000 $ et, 2006-2007, on versera 2 341 000 $.</p>"
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{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:50:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Sue Barnes",
"fr": ""
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230647\" data-originallang=\"en\">Has the evaluation of the drug treatment courts been done by the department? I know there was a considerable amount of concern about this in Vancouver.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230647\" data-originallang=\"en\">Est-ce que le minist\u00e8re a proc\u00e9d\u00e9 \u00e0 une \u00e9valuation des tribunaux de traitement de la toxicomanie? Je sais que la question a fait couler beaucoup d'encre \u00e0 Vancouver.</p>"
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{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:50:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Ms. Barbara Merriam",
"fr": ""
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230648\" data-originallang=\"en\">As my manager mentioned earlier, the Toronto court started in 1998 with federal funding through the National Crime Prevention Centre. The Vancouver court started in 2001, again with National Crime Prevention Centre money. Both have had promising evaluation reports.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230648\" data-originallang=\"en\">Comme mon directeur l'a mentionn\u00e9 un peu plus t\u00f4t, le tribunal de Toronto a \u00e9t\u00e9 mis sur pied en 1998 gr\u00e2ce \u00e0 un financement offert dans le cadre des activit\u00e9s du Centre national de pr\u00e9vention du crime. Le tribunal de Vancouver a \u00e9t\u00e9 mis sur pied en 2001, encore une fois gr\u00e2ce \u00e0 un financement accord\u00e9 par le Centre national de pr\u00e9vention du crime. Les deux tribunaux ont re\u00e7u des \u00e9valuations encourageantes.</p>"
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{
"time": "2006-10-18 15:50:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Hon. Sue Barnes",
"fr": ""
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"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"230649\" data-originallang=\"en\">Could we get those reports?</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"230649\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pouvons-nous obtenir ces rapports d'\u00e9valuation?</p>"
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