Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2022-05-11 19:05:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "Mr. Warren Steinley (Regina\u2014Lewvan, CPC)",
        "fr": "M. Warren Steinley (Regina\u2014Lewvan, PCC)"
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"7141554\" data-originallang=\"en\">Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to join in this debate tonight. I would like to thank the hon. member for <a data-HoCid=\"278514\" href=\"/politicians/mark-gerretsen/\" title=\"Mark Gerretsen\">Kingston and the Islands</a> for allowing me to change the speaking order today as I have an appointment later this evening. I appreciate that very much, so my thanks to my colleague across the way.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141555\" data-originallang=\"en\">When it comes to the CRTC and Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11528728\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-11/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-11</a>, I am not an expert on information, and they are experts on misinformation, or on the Internet and what the CRTC should or should not be doing, so I am going to read a couple of comments from Michael Geist, who is an expert when it comes to information, the Internet, what should be happening with it and how it should be regulated. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141556\" data-originallang=\"en\">One of the problems that Professor Geist has with Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11528728\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-11/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-11</a>, which is very, very similar to Bill <a data-HoCid=\"10926636\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-10/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-10</a>, is this:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"7141557\" data-originallang=\"en\"> But dig a little deeper and it turns out that the bill is not quite as advertised. While Section 4.1 was restored, the government has added 4.1(2), which creates an exception to the exception. That exception to the exception\u2014in effect a rule that does allow for regulation of content uploaded to a social media service\u2014says that the Act applies to programs as prescribed by regulations that may be created by the CRTC. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"7141558\" data-originallang=\"en\">It lays out three criteria that this \u201cexception to the exception\u201d may fall under:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"7141559\" data-originallang=\"en\"> The bill continues with a new Section 4.2, which gives the CRTC the instructions for creating those regulations. The result is a legislative pretzel, where the government twists itself around trying to regulate certain content. In particular, it says the CRTC can create regulations that treat content uploaded to social media services as programs by considering three factors: whether the program that is uploaded to a social media service directly or indirectly generates revenue; if the program has been broadcast by a broadcast undertaking that is either licensed or registered with the CRTC; if the program has been assigned a unique identifier under an international standards system. The law does not tell the CRTC how to weigh these factors. Moreover, there is a further exclusion for content in which neither the user nor the copyright owner receives revenue as well as for visual images only. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"7141560\" data-originallang=\"en\">I think these are some of the biggest issues that we on this side have with Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11528728\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-11/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-11</a>. There are some hidden questions within this legislation. The exception to the exception is a big concern, and also that the CRTC has not received all of its marching orders from the Liberal government as yet. We are not quite sure what the mandate for the CRTC is when it comes to online content.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141561\" data-originallang=\"en\">I have received some comments from constituents. Actually, one of them is from country music singer JJ Voss, who just won an award. He is concerned that we would hold this bill up because there are some things in here about Canadian content and supporting Canadian musicians, Canadian culture and Canadians who are really doing great work. That is not our practice at all. What we want to do is make sure that people are protected. Our job as the loyal opposition is to review legislation cautiously to see where there may be some traps, because there are some things in these pieces of legislation that Canadians might not think are good ideas. This, in particular, is one of those situations for sure.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141562\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I believe that a lot of people in Regina\u2014Lewvan, the area that I represent in Saskatchewan, are a little unsure of my voting in favour of a piece of legislation if they are not even sure what the mandate to the CRTC is yet or what exactly \u201can exception to an exception\u201d means. They are really not comfortable with the \u201cjust trust us\u201d approach that the Liberal government sometimes takes to legislation. I can understand why. We have gone through a lot of situations over the past two years where \u201cjust trust me\u201d has ended up in people not being able to go to weddings or funerals. \u201cJust trust us. We want to have the ability to tax and spend for 18 to 22 months without having any oversight whatsoever\u201d; that is another situation where people do not feel comfortable with the decisions the Liberal government has made.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141563\" data-originallang=\"en\">When it comes to us deciding if this bill is something we can really support, do we not think Canadians have the ability to actually use their own discretion when they are posting online? Why can Canadians not have that freedom of expression or freedom of speech?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141564\" data-originallang=\"en\">When it comes to Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11528728\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-11/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-11</a>, those are some of the questions we have had. There is also the fact that, over the last two hours in this building, when we have been talking about Bill C-11, which some people would see as censorship by the government, the Liberals brought in closure on a bill about censorship. One cannot make this up. We had had 30 minutes of questions and answers, when at one point the NDP member for <a data-HoCid=\"278703\" href=\"/politicians/gord-johns/\" title=\"Gord Johns\">Courtenay\u2014Alberni</a> had the audacity to say that we were holding up legislation just because we asked for a standing vote and did not pass the piece of legislation on division. That is our job. That is why people sent us to this building, to stand up and be counted.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141565\" data-originallang=\"en\">I will not be talked down to by someone from <a data-HoCid=\"278703\" href=\"/politicians/gord-johns/\" title=\"Gord Johns\">Courtenay\u2014Alberni</a> when the Liberals do not want me to be doing my job. That was an actual conversation during the 30 minutes of questions and answers, when the Liberals once again used closure to try to pass this legislation faster because, quite frankly, I do not think they believe it stands up to the scrutiny that the loyal opposition has been putting it to. It does not pass the smell test. For the constituents who have sent us here, that is really our job. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141566\" data-originallang=\"en\">I think I understand why some of the members across the way say that everyone should pay their fair share, and we agree with them, but why do they really want to get some money back from Facebook and Netflix? I have a list of how much money a few of the Liberal members have spent on advertising on Facebook. The member for <a data-HoCid=\"278512\" href=\"/politicians/ken-hardie/\" title=\"Ken Hardie\">Fleetwood\u2014Port Kells</a>, who just spoke about vinyl records, spent almost $5,000 on advertising from June 25, 2019 to May 9, 2022, and that is just coming from his member's office budget. That is $5,000 in taxpayer dollars he spent on advertising on Facebook\u2014</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"7141554\" data-originallang=\"en\">Madame la Pr\u00e9sidente, c'est un bonheur de participer aujourd'hui \u00e0 ce d\u00e9bat. J'aimerais remercier le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"278514\" href=\"/politicians/mark-gerretsen/\" title=\"Mark Gerretsen\">Kingston et les \u00celes</a> d'avoir accept\u00e9 que l'on modifie l'ordre d'intervention, car j'ai un rendez-vous ce soir. Je lui en suis fort reconnaissant, donc mes remerciements \u00e0 mon coll\u00e8gue d'en face.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141555\" data-originallang=\"en\">Au sujet du CRTC et du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11528728\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-11/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C\u201111</a>, je ne suis pas un sp\u00e9cialiste de l'information, et je ne poss\u00e8de par leur expertise en mati\u00e8re de m\u00e9sinformation. Je ne suis gu\u00e8re mieux plac\u00e9 pour traiter d'Internet et de ce que le CRTC devrait faire ou non. Donc, je vais lire quelques commentaires de Michael Geist, qui, lui, est un sp\u00e9cialiste en mati\u00e8re d'information, d'Internet, de ce qui devrait \u00eatre fait dans ce domaine et de la fa\u00e7on dont celui-ci devrait \u00eatre r\u00e9glement\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141556\" data-originallang=\"en\">Voici l'un des probl\u00e8mes relev\u00e9s par M. Geist dans le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11528728\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-11/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C\u201111</a>, qui reprend essentiellement le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"10926636\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-10/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C\u201110</a>:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"7141557\" data-originallang=\"en\"> En y regardant de plus pr\u00e8s, toutefois, il est clair que le projet de loi ne correspond pas tout \u00e0 fait \u00e0 ce qui a \u00e9t\u00e9 annonc\u00e9. Bien que l'article 4.1 ait \u00e9t\u00e9 r\u00e9tabli, le gouvernement a ajout\u00e9 le paragraphe 4.1(2), qui vient cr\u00e9er une exception \u00e0 l'exception. Cette exception \u00e0 l'exception, c'est\u2011\u00e0\u2011dire la r\u00e8gle qui permet la r\u00e9glementation du contenu t\u00e9l\u00e9vers\u00e9 sur les m\u00e9dias sociaux, pr\u00e9cise que la loi s'applique aux \u00e9missions vis\u00e9es par un r\u00e8glement du CRTC. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"7141558\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le professeur Geist \u00e9nonce trois crit\u00e8res auxquels cette \u00ab exception \u00e0 l'exception \u00bb peut r\u00e9pondre: </p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"7141559\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Le projet de loi continue avec une nouvelle disposition, l'article 4.2, qui donne au CRTC les instructions pour cr\u00e9er ces r\u00e8glements. Le r\u00e9sultat est un bretzel l\u00e9gislatif, o\u00f9 le gouvernement s'entortille pour tenter de r\u00e9glementer certains contenus. Le CRTC aurait, plus pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment, le pouvoir de prendre des r\u00e8glements qui consid\u00e8rent comme des \u00e9missions les contenus t\u00e9l\u00e9vers\u00e9s vers les services de m\u00e9dias sociaux en tenant compte des trois crit\u00e8res suivants: la mesure dans laquelle l'\u00e9mission t\u00e9l\u00e9vers\u00e9e vers un service de m\u00e9dias sociaux g\u00e9n\u00e8re directement ou indirectement des revenus; le fait que l'\u00e9mission a \u00e9t\u00e9 radiodiffus\u00e9e par une entreprise de radiodiffusion titulaire d'une licence ou enregistr\u00e9e aupr\u00e8s du CRTC; le fait qu'un identifiant unique a \u00e9t\u00e9 attribu\u00e9 \u00e0 l'\u00e9mission en vertu d'un syst\u00e8me international de normalisation. Le projet de loi ne dit pas au CRTC comment pond\u00e9rer ces facteurs. En outre, il renferme une autre exclusion visant le contenu pour lequel ni l'utilisateur qui l'a t\u00e9l\u00e9vers\u00e9 ni le titulaire du droit d'auteur ne per\u00e7oit de revenus, ainsi que le contenu constitu\u00e9 exclusivement d'images. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"7141560\" data-originallang=\"en\">Voil\u00e0 quelques-uns des principaux \u00e9l\u00e9ments que nous, de ce c\u00f4t\u00e9\u2011ci de la Chambre, reprochons au projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11528728\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-11/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-11</a>. Il y a des enjeux cach\u00e9s dans ce texte. L'exception \u00e0 l'exception est une grande pr\u00e9occupation, et aussi le fait que le CRTC n'a pas encore re\u00e7u toutes ses directives du gouvernement lib\u00e9ral. Nous ne savons pas exactement quel est le mandat du CRTC en ce qui concerne le contenu en ligne. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141561\" data-originallang=\"en\">J\u2019ai re\u00e7u des commentaires d\u2019\u00e9lecteurs. En fait, l\u2019un d\u2019eux me vient du chanteur de musique country JJ Voss, qui vient de gagner un prix. Il craint que nous retardions l\u2019adoption de ce projet de loi parce qu\u2019il contient d\u2019excellentes dispositions sur le contenu canadien, sur le soutien des musiciens canadiens, sur la culture canadienne et sur les Canadiens qui font de l\u2019excellent travail. Nous n\u2019avons pas l\u2019habitude de retarder l\u2019adoption de projets de loi. Nous voulons simplement nous assurer que les gens sont prot\u00e9g\u00e9s. Notre travail de loyale opposition est d\u2019examiner attentivement les projets de loi pour y d\u00e9tecter des pi\u00e8ges \u00e9ventuels, parce que ces projets de loi peuvent contenir des dispositions avec lesquelles les Canadiens ne seraient peut-\u00eatre pas d\u2019accord. Ce projet de loi-ci entre certainement dans cette cat\u00e9gorie.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141562\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je crois que beaucoup de gens de Regina\u2014Lewvan, la r\u00e9gion que je repr\u00e9sente en Saskatchewan, douteraient de la valeur de mon vote en faveur du projet de loi s\u2019ils ne sont m\u00eame pas certains du mandat qu\u2019a re\u00e7u le CRTC ou de ce que signifie exactement \u00ab une exception \u00e0 une exception \u00bb. Ils n\u2019acceptent pas l\u2019approche \u00ab faites-nous confiance \u00bb que le gouvernement lib\u00e9ral applique parfois pour l\u00e9gif\u00e9rer. Je les comprends tout \u00e0 fait. Ces deux derni\u00e8res ann\u00e9es, nous avons v\u00e9cu beaucoup de situations o\u00f9 des gens se sont retrouv\u00e9s dans l\u2019impossibilit\u00e9 d\u2019assister \u00e0 des mariages ou \u00e0 des fun\u00e9railles. \u00ab Faites-nous confiance. Nous voulons avoir la capacit\u00e9 de taxer et de d\u00e9penser pendant 18 \u00e0 22 mois sans aucune surveillance. \u00bb C\u2019est un autre cas o\u00f9 les gens ne sont pas \u00e0 l\u2019aise face aux d\u00e9cisions du gouvernement lib\u00e9ral.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141563\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pour ce qui est de d\u00e9cider d\u2019appuyer ou de rejeter ce projet de loi, ne pensons-nous pas que les Canadiens sont en mesure d\u2019appliquer leur propre pouvoir discr\u00e9tionnaire lorsqu\u2019ils publient des messages en ligne? Pourquoi les Canadiens ne pourraient-ils pas jouir de ce genre de libert\u00e9 d\u2019expression?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141564\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans le cas du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11528728\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-11/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-11</a>, ce sont quelques-unes des questions que nous avons pos\u00e9es. Il y a aussi le fait que ces deux derni\u00e8res heures, alors que nous d\u00e9battions du projet de loi C\u201111, que certains consid\u00e9reraient comme de la censure de la part du gouvernement, les lib\u00e9raux ont impos\u00e9 la cl\u00f4ture sur un projet de loi sur la censure. Cela ne s'invente pas. Nous avons eu 30 minutes de questions et de r\u00e9ponses et, \u00e0 un moment donn\u00e9, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 n\u00e9o-d\u00e9mocrate de <a data-HoCid=\"278703\" href=\"/politicians/gord-johns/\" title=\"Gord Johns\">Courtenay\u2014Alberni</a> a eu l\u2019audace de dire que nous retardions l\u2019adoption du projet de loi simplement parce que nous demandions un vote par assis et lev\u00e9 et que nous n\u2019avons pas adopt\u00e9 le projet de loi avec dissidence. C\u2019est notre travail. C\u2019est pour cela que les gens nous ont envoy\u00e9s ici, afin que nous nous levions pour \u00eatre compt\u00e9s.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141565\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je ne vais pas laisser le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"278703\" href=\"/politicians/gord-johns/\" title=\"Gord Johns\">Courtenay\u2014Alberni</a> me faire la le\u00e7on alors que les lib\u00e9raux ne veulent pas que je fasse mon travail. C\u2019est une conversation qui a eu lieu pendant les 30 minutes de questions et de r\u00e9ponses, lorsque les lib\u00e9raux ont encore une fois impos\u00e9 la cl\u00f4ture pour faire adopter ce projet de loi plus rapidement. Bien franchement, je crois qu\u2019ils pensent qu\u2019il ne r\u00e9sisterait pas \u00e0 l\u2019examen minutieux auquel l\u2019opposition officielle l\u2019a soumis. Il n'est pas \u00e0 la hauteur. C'est pourtant le r\u00f4le qui nous incombe et la raison pour laquelle nos \u00e9lecteurs nous ont envoy\u00e9s ici.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7141566\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je crois comprendre pourquoi certains d\u00e9put\u00e9s d'en face disent que tout le monde devrait payer sa juste part, et nous sommes d'accord avec eux sur ce point. Toutefois, pourquoi veulent-ils vraiment r\u00e9cup\u00e9rer de l'argent de Facebook et Netflix? J'ai une liste des montants que quelques d\u00e9put\u00e9s lib\u00e9raux ont d\u00e9pens\u00e9s en publicit\u00e9 sur Facebook. Le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"278512\" href=\"/politicians/ken-hardie/\" title=\"Ken Hardie\">Fleetwood\u2014Port Kells</a>, qui vient de parler de vinyles, a d\u00e9pens\u00e9 pr\u00e8s de 5 000 $ en publicit\u00e9 du 25 juin 2019 au 9 mai 2022, et c'est la somme provenant de son budget de bureau de d\u00e9put\u00e9 uniquement. Il a donc d\u00e9pens\u00e9 5 000 $ de l'argent des contribuables en publicit\u00e9 sur Facebook...</p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2022/5/11/warren-steinley-2/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/warren-steinley/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4537/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "11680744",
    "h1": {
        "en": "Government Orders",
        "fr": "Ordres \u00e9manant du gouvernement"
    },
    "h2": {
        "en": "Online Streaming Act",
        "fr": "Loi sur la diffusion continue en ligne"
    },
    "document_url": "/debates/2022/5/11/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fdebates%2F2022%2F5%2F11%2F"
    }
}