Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2022-11-22 10:20:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "Ms. Kristina Michaud (Avignon\u2014La Mitis\u2014Matane\u2014Matap\u00e9dia, BQ)",
        "fr": "Mme Kristina Michaud (Avignon\u2014La Mitis\u2014Matane\u2014Matap\u00e9dia, BQ)"
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"7440125\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Mr. Speaker, there were a few minutes left in my speech on November 3 just before the <a data-HoCid=\"263835\" href=\"/politicians/chrystia-freeland/\" title=\"Chrystia Freeland\">Deputy Prime Minister</a> took the floor to present her economic update.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440126\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Members will remember that, at the time, the House of Commons was all abuzz and everyone was eager to hear the Deputy Prime Minister\u2019s speech, so I have a feeling that not many members heard what I had to say.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440127\" data-originallang=\"fr\">I will take this opportunity to review certain points that explain the Bloc Qu\u00e9b\u00e9cois\u2019s position on Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11792856\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-20/\" title=\"An Act establishing the Public Complaints and Review Commission and amending certain Acts and statutory instruments\">C-20</a>. I began by announcing that the government had our support for the first reading of the bill. This is a second attempt for me in my speech today, but it is the third attempt for the government in its introduction of the bill.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440128\" data-originallang=\"fr\">In fact, the government has been trying to legislate on this issue for several years. Members will remember Bill <a data-HoCid=\"10613928\" href=\"/bills/43-1/C-3/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and the Canada Border Services Agency Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-3</a>, introduced in the 43rd legislature, and Bill <a data-HoCid=\"10449322\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-98/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and the Canada Border Services Agency Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-98</a>, introduced in the 42nd legislature. I hope that the third time is the charm, and that Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11792856\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-20/\" title=\"An Act establishing the Public Complaints and Review Commission and amending certain Acts and statutory instruments\">C-20</a> will be able to survive the entire democratic parliamentary process so that we can provide the Canada Border Services Agency and the RCMP with a truly independent external review commission.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440129\" data-originallang=\"fr\">The community has been asking for this for many years now. More than 18 years ago, in 2004, Justice O\u2019Connor recommended the creation of an independent process to manage public complaints against the CBSA. The CBSA is the only Canadian public safety agency that has no external commission enabling the general public to file a complaint if they suffer any harm.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440130\" data-originallang=\"fr\">We know that this has happened in recent years. Many newspaper articles have reported on the fact that Canadian citizens returning home or leaving the country have suffered abuse by border services officers. Obviously, the point of my speech is not to put border services officers on trial. They usually do a very good job but, as in every organization, there are cases of abuse. We therefore need to enable the public to file complaints and allow these complaints to go through the necessary process to see whether anything can be done and whether these complaints should be reviewed.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440131\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Of course, there is a complaint process within the CBSA, but we know that self-investigation is never particularly effective. When complaints are dealt with internally, we often need to make access to information requests to find out what was the outcome of these complaints. Moreover, we know what happens with access to information requests these days. As my colleague from <a data-HoCid=\"278766\" href=\"/politicians/rene-villemure/\" title=\"Ren\u00e9 Villemure\">Trois-Rivi\u00e8res</a> mentioned, the government \u201cis so transparent that we can see right through the pages\u201d. That is what he said about the 225 blank pages sent by Health Canada in response to an access to information request.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440132\" data-originallang=\"fr\">It would be a very good thing to have this process finally in place. As I said earlier, the community has been asking for this for many years. The Customs and Immigration Union gave its opinion on the bill. It asks that the review commission deal with not only misconduct by officers, but also any systemic problem that might come from higher up in the chain of command. That way, the problem could be investigated and complaints could be filed against managers and not just officers. The union really wants the entire chain of command to be looked at and, if there is a problem, officers should not be the only ones who are reprimanded for complaints filed with the commission.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440133\" data-originallang=\"fr\">What is also interesting about the bill is that it requires the minister of public safety to present an annual report informing the House and Canadians of what public safety agencies have done to implement the recommendations made by the public complaints and review commission. The commission would be able to issue recommendations to the department, and the minister would be accountable to the public and to complainants.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440134\" data-originallang=\"fr\">I mentioned earlier that border services officers have great power. They can detain and search Canadians and even deport people.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440135\" data-originallang=\"fr\">The legislative summary of Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11792856\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-20/\" title=\"An Act establishing the Public Complaints and Review Commission and amending certain Acts and statutory instruments\">C-20</a> mentions the case of Maher Arar, a Syrian Canadian citizen who was deported, imprisoned and tortured in Syria. This was the result of a communication problem between Canadian and U.S. border services. Mr. Arar was questioned by the FBI. We realized that there might be a problem and that complaints were not being followed up on. That might have prevented this sort of thing from happening.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440136\" data-originallang=\"fr\">The number of investigations rose in 2020 compared to 2019. I do not have the figures for 2021 or 2022. Some 250 investigations of officers were conducted by the Canada Border Services Agency following complaints. For example, it appears that some officers interfered in the immigration process, while others attempted to assist immigration lawyers by illegally removing items that might raise questions from certain files. Still others apparently made disparaging comments about clients or inappropriate comments about colleagues. Some are said to have abused their authority. There were also complaints about harassment and sexual assault. These complaints are serious, and they demonstrate the need to create a thorough, independent complaint process. This will allow people who have been harmed by border services officers to have some recourse and keep informed.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440137\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Once again, the government can count on our support to improve this bill and pass it as soon as possible.</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"7440125\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, il restait effectivement quelques minutes au discours que j'avais entam\u00e9 le 3 novembre dernier juste avant que la <a data-HoCid=\"263835\" href=\"/politicians/chrystia-freeland/\" title=\"Chrystia Freeland\">vice-premi\u00e8re ministre</a> ne prenne la parole pour faire sa mise \u00e0 jour \u00e9conomique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440126\" data-originallang=\"fr\">On se rappelle qu'\u00e0 ce moment, la Chambre des communes bourdonnait et que tout le monde arrivait avec une certaine h\u00e2te pour entendre le discours de la vice-premi\u00e8re ministre. J'ai donc l'impression qu'il n'y a pas beaucoup de d\u00e9put\u00e9s qui ont entendu ce que j'avais \u00e0 dire.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440127\" data-originallang=\"fr\">J'en profite pour revenir sur certains \u00e9l\u00e9ments qui mettent en lumi\u00e8re la position du Bloc qu\u00e9b\u00e9cois sur le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11792856\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-20/\" title=\"An Act establishing the Public Complaints and Review Commission and amending certain Acts and statutory instruments\">C\u201120</a>. J'avais annonc\u00e9 d'embl\u00e9e que le gouvernement avait notre appui pour la premi\u00e8re lecture de ce projet de loi. C'est une prise 2 pour moi dans ce discours aujourd'hui, mais il s'agit de la prise 3 pour le gouvernement dans le d\u00e9p\u00f4t de ce projet de loi.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440128\" data-originallang=\"fr\">En effet, cela fait quelques ann\u00e9es que le gouvernement essaie de l\u00e9gif\u00e9rer sur cette question. On se souvient du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"10613928\" href=\"/bills/43-1/C-3/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and the Canada Border Services Agency Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts\">C\u20113</a> d\u00e9pos\u00e9 lors de la 43<sup>e</sup> l\u00e9gislature et du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"10449322\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-98/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and the Canada Border Services Agency Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts\">C\u201198</a> d\u00e9pos\u00e9 lors de la 42<sup>e</sup> l\u00e9gislature. J'esp\u00e8re que cette fois-ci sera la bonne et que le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11792856\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-20/\" title=\"An Act establishing the Public Complaints and Review Commission and amending certain Acts and statutory instruments\">C\u201120</a> pourra suivre le processus d\u00e9mocratique parlementaire jusqu'au bout, afin de pouvoir doter l'Agence des services frontaliers du Canada et la GRC d'une commission externe des plaintes, d'une vraie commission ind\u00e9pendante.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440129\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Le milieu le demande depuis de nombreuses ann\u00e9es. Il y a plus de 18 ans, en 2004, le juge O'Connor avait recommand\u00e9 la cr\u00e9ation d'un processus ind\u00e9pendant pour g\u00e9rer les plaintes du public contre l'Agence des services frontaliers du Canada, ou ASFC. Il faut dire que l'ASFC est la seule agence de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 publique du Canada qui n'a pas de commission externe pour permettre aux gens du public de porter plainte s'ils ont \u00e9t\u00e9 victimes d'un pr\u00e9judice quelconque.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440130\" data-originallang=\"fr\">On sait que cela a \u00e9t\u00e9 le cas au cours des derni\u00e8res ann\u00e9es. Nombreux sont les articles de journaux qui ont fait \u00e9tat du fait que des citoyens canadiens revenant au pays ou partant \u00e0 l'\u00e9tranger avaient subi certains s\u00e9vices de la part d'agents des services frontaliers. \u00c9videmment, le but de mon discours n'est pas de faire le proc\u00e8s des agents des services frontaliers. Normalement, ils font tr\u00e8s bien leur travail, mais, comme dans toute organisation, il y a parfois des abus. Il faut donc permettre au public de porter plainte et laisser ces plaintes suivre le processus n\u00e9cessaire pour voir si quelque chose peut \u00eatre fait et si une r\u00e9vision de ces plaintes doit \u00eatre faite.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440131\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Un processus existe bien entendu \u00e0 l'int\u00e9rieur de l'ASFC, mais on sait que laisser \u00e0 une organisation le soin de faire enqu\u00eate sur elle-m\u00eame ne donne jamais de bien grands r\u00e9sultats. Quand les plaintes sont trait\u00e9es \u00e0 l'interne, il faut souvent faire des demandes d'acc\u00e8s \u00e0 l'information pour savoir ce qu'il advient de ces plaintes. De plus, on sait ce que donnent de nos jours les demandes d'acc\u00e8s \u00e0 l'information. Comme l'avait dit mon coll\u00e8gue de <a data-HoCid=\"278766\" href=\"/politicians/rene-villemure/\" title=\"Ren\u00e9 Villemure\">Trois-Rivi\u00e8res</a>, le gouvernement \u00ab est tellement transparent qu'on voit \u00e0 travers les pages \u00bb. C'est ce qu'il avait dit en faisant allusion aux 225 pages blanches envoy\u00e9es par Sant\u00e9 Canada en r\u00e9ponse \u00e0 une demande d'acc\u00e8s \u00e0 l'information. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440132\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> Il est donc tr\u00e8s bien que ce processus soit enfin mis en place. Comme je le disais, cela \u00e9tait demand\u00e9 depuis de nombreuses ann\u00e9es. Le Syndicat des Douanes et de l'Immigration a donn\u00e9 son avis sur le projet de loi. Il demande que l'organisme des plaintes ne s'occupe pas seulement des agents, mais que, si on constate un probl\u00e8me syst\u00e9mique qui pourrait venir de plus haut dans la cha\u00eene de commandement, on puisse aussi en faire la v\u00e9rification, et que les plaintes puissent s'appliquer aux gestionnaires et pas seulement aux agents. Le syndicat veut vraiment que toute la cha\u00eene de commandement soit inspect\u00e9e et que, s'il y a lieu, ce ne soit pas seulement les agents qui soient r\u00e9primand\u00e9s pour des plaintes qui auraient \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9pos\u00e9es aupr\u00e8s de la commission.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440133\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Ce qui est aussi int\u00e9ressant dans le projet de loi, c'est qu'il force le ministre de la S\u00e9curit\u00e9 publique \u00e0 pr\u00e9senter un rapport annuel pour informer la Chambre et le public de ce que ses organisations de s\u00e9curit\u00e9 publique ont fait pour donner suite aux recommandations de la Commission d\u2019examen et de traitement des plaintes du public. La commission pourra \u00e9mettre des recommandations au minist\u00e8re, et le ministre devra rendre des comptes au public et aux plaignants.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440134\" data-originallang=\"fr\">J'ai mentionn\u00e9 un peu plus t\u00f4t que les agents des services frontaliers ont un grand pouvoir. Ils peuvent d\u00e9tenir et fouiller des Canadiens, et notamment proc\u00e9der \u00e0 des expulsions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440135\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Dans le r\u00e9sum\u00e9 l\u00e9gislatif du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11792856\" href=\"/bills/44-1/C-20/\" title=\"An Act establishing the Public Complaints and Review Commission and amending certain Acts and statutory instruments\">C\u201120</a>, on mentionnait le cas de Maher Arar, un citoyen canado-syrien qui avait \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9port\u00e9, tortur\u00e9 et emprisonn\u00e9 en Syrie. C'\u00e9tait d\u00fb \u00e0 un certain probl\u00e8me de communication entre les diff\u00e9rentes agences des services frontaliers, notamment au Canada et aux \u00c9tats\u2011Unis. L'homme avait \u00e9t\u00e9 interrog\u00e9 par le FBI. On s'est rendu compte qu'il y avait peut-\u00eatre un probl\u00e8me et qu'on n'\u00e9tait pas en mesure d'arriver au bout de la chose quand on d\u00e9posait une plainte. Cela aurait peut-\u00eatre pu \u00e9viter ce genre de cas l\u00e0. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440136\" data-originallang=\"fr\">En 2020, il y a eu une augmentation du nombre d'enqu\u00eates par rapport \u00e0 2019. Je n'ai pas les chiffres pour 2021ni ceux de cette ann\u00e9e. On parle de 250 enqu\u00eates qui ont \u00e9t\u00e9 men\u00e9es par l'Agence des services frontaliers du Canada sur des agents \u00e0 la suite de plaintes. Par exemple, ce sont des agents qui auraient interf\u00e9r\u00e9 dans le processus d'immigration, des agents qui auraient tent\u00e9 d'aider des avocats sp\u00e9cialis\u00e9s en immigration en retirant ill\u00e9galement des \u00e9l\u00e9ments qui auraient suscit\u00e9 des questions dans certains dossiers. Certains auraient fait des commentaires d\u00e9valorisants sur des clients ou des commentaires inappropri\u00e9s \u00e0 l'\u00e9gard de coll\u00e8gues. D'autres auraient abus\u00e9 de leur autorit\u00e9. Il y a aussi eu certaines plaintes de harc\u00e8lement et d\u2019agressions sexuelles. Les plaintes formul\u00e9es sont donc assez s\u00e9rieuses. Cela d\u00e9montre tout l'int\u00e9r\u00eat de cr\u00e9er un processus de plainte ind\u00e9pendant rigoureux. Il permettra au public d'avoir l'heure juste quand il est victime de certains s\u00e9vices de la part des agents des services frontaliers.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"7440137\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Encore une fois, le gouvernement a notre collaboration pour am\u00e9liorer ce projet de loi et le faire adopter rapidement.</p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2022/11/22/kristina-michaud-1/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/kristina-michaud/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4546/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "11935766",
    "h1": {
        "en": "Government Orders",
        "fr": "Ordres \u00e9manant du gouvernement"
    },
    "h2": {
        "en": "Public Complaints and Review Commission Act",
        "fr": "Loi sur la Commission d'examen et de traitement des plaintes du public"
    },
    "document_url": "/debates/2022/11/22/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fdebates%2F2022%2F11%2F22%2F"
    }
}