Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2021-06-14 11:55:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "Hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.)",
        "fr": "L\u2019hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.)"
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"6798772\" data-originallang=\"en\">Madam Speaker, I am pleased to speak on private member's bill, Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11111622\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-273/\" title=\"An Act to establish a national strategy for a guaranteed basic income\">C-273</a>, an act to establish a national strategy for a guaranteed basic income, sponsored by my colleague, the member for Davenport, who is also a colleague at the finance committee.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798773\" data-originallang=\"en\">I congratulate the member for <a data-HoCid=\"253047\" href=\"/politicians/julie-dzerowicz/\" title=\"Julie Dzerowicz\">Davenport</a> for putting into a legislative format what has been discussed for years. In fact, various concepts of a basic income guarantee have been attempted over many decades, but for one reason or another there is less than complete documentation on how those systems worked, if it was even completed.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798774\" data-originallang=\"en\">There was a program that was mentioned by another speaker in Dauphin, Manitoba in the 1970s, which was a different time from now. The data is really not available in a substantive way. The most recent trial, at least in this country, was the Ontario basic income pilot, brought in as a pilot project by the previous Wynne government, which was then cancelled by the incoming Ford government before any results were known. I think there was a lot of hope in that project that it would give us a baseline of how a guaranteed annual income would work.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798775\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11111622\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-273/\" title=\"An Act to establish a national strategy for a guaranteed basic income\">C-273</a> does not preconceive what is the best or the perfect basic income approach, but the bill sets the stage to try different pilots, to attain data in real time and to monitor results. It basically pushes the federal government to provide leadership in this national strategy.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798776\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bill C-273 would require the <a data-HoCid=\"263831\" href=\"/politicians/chrystia-freeland/\" title=\"Chrystia Freeland\">Minister of Finance</a> to develop and table a strategy to assess implementation models for a guaranteed basic income program in Canada. What the bill is really saying is that there could be different models. The government would be responsible for assessing them, for attaining the data. The act would require development, in consultation with key stakeholders, including industry, indigenous communities and governments, as well as municipal, provincial and territorial governments.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798777\" data-originallang=\"en\">I heard what some of the other speakers on this bill said, some in opposition to it. My good friend from <a data-HoCid=\"252694\" href=\"/politicians/gabriel-ste-marie/\" title=\"Gabriel Ste-Marie\">Joliette</a>, who is also a member at the finance committee, said that this would require a constitutional amendment. Not so. This concept could vary from province to province. What we really need is the data to assess whether it would really work as well as some people suggest it would. There would be all kinds of consultations and the federal government would be required to do that under this bill.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798778\" data-originallang=\"en\">The act outlines specific measures that the strategy must contain, including pilot project, national standards and measures for the collection and analysis of relevant data. I think that is key. I talked to a friend on the weekend who said that a guaranteed annual income is just going to be like CERB was with people not wanting to work. I do not think that is necessarily the case. People may improve their education. They may go for better jobs. They may look for better-paying jobs. As a strong supporter of a guaranteed annual income approach, I am willing to put my beliefs on the line. I believe it would work. I believe people would still want to work. I believe it would address the poverty issues that we have in this country.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798779\" data-originallang=\"en\">I am willing to say that we should do a pilot. Let us put our beliefs on the line. Those who oppose the bill, saying that it will be a waste of money, which people will spend on drugs or whatever, should put their beliefs on the line. Let us actually do a sincere pilot where we collect the data in real time and prove it one way or the other. That is where I think we should be going. The minister, at the end of the program, would also have to prepare a report on the results of implementation two years after the tabling of the strategy. I think that is really important.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798780\" data-originallang=\"en\">Let me turn to subclause (3)(a) in the bill, which states \u201cestablish a pilot project in one or more provinces to test models of implementation of a guaranteed basic income program.\u201d</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798781\" data-originallang=\"en\">I come from Prince Edward Island, a province that has shown a willingness at the provincial level for the province as a whole to be one of those pilot projects. The member for <a data-HoCid=\"252499\" href=\"/politicians/sean-casey/\" title=\"Sean Casey\">Charlottetown</a> and I have met with countless groups on the guaranteed income approach, and this province would be absolutely ideal for a pilot project.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798782\" data-originallang=\"en\">There is the province as a whole; then bigger communities, smaller communities, rural ones and urban ones; hospitals and schools; and only 158,000 people. We could have a pilot project over time in Prince Edward Island. There is the willingness on the provincial side, which passed a motion in the legislature, to work with the federal government to attempt one of those pilot projects. This is really what we need. It would provide the evidence to show whether the system works or does not work.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798783\" data-originallang=\"en\">Subclause (3)(d) reads \u201ccollect and analyze data for the purpose of assessing, for each model tested.\u201d That is where we need to be. We need to do the pilots. I would suggest to do three across the country. I know there is some interest in B.C. and maybe in a bigger urban area as well, but do the pilot projects, monitor the data and assess it. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798784\" data-originallang=\"en\">Then we all as members of Parliament, regardless of what our position is, would have the concrete evidence in real-time based on data that has monitored how it impacts people, their health, their income, their community and how it impacts people in the workforce. We would have evidence on whether people are willing to go to work or increasing their education and looking for higher-paying jobs. That is the kind of information we need and that is what I really like about the member's bill. There are no preconceived notions, only that we should do the experimentation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798785\" data-originallang=\"en\">I want to close by mentioning former Senator Hugh Segal. He is quoted in an article by Jamie Swift in the Whig Standard, in which he talks about his book <em>Bootstraps Need Boots: One Tory's Lonely Fight to End Poverty in Canada</em>. Senator Segal has long been an advocate of a guaranteed annual income for dealing with the poverty issue in Canada. This is a way to find out if it really works.</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"6798772\" data-originallang=\"en\">Madame la Pr\u00e9sidente, je suis heureux d\u2019intervenir au sujet du projet de loi d\u2019initiative parlementaire <a data-HoCid=\"11111622\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-273/\" title=\"An Act to establish a national strategy for a guaranteed basic income\">C\u2011273</a>, Loi concernant l\u2019\u00e9tablissement d\u2019une strat\u00e9gie nationale sur le revenu de base garanti, parrain\u00e9 par ma coll\u00e8gue, la d\u00e9put\u00e9e de Davenport, qui si\u00e8ge \u00e9galement au comit\u00e9 des finances.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798773\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je f\u00e9licite la d\u00e9put\u00e9e de <a data-HoCid=\"253047\" href=\"/politicians/julie-dzerowicz/\" title=\"Julie Dzerowicz\">Davenport</a> d\u2019avoir pr\u00e9sent\u00e9 une mesure l\u00e9gislative dont on discute depuis des ann\u00e9es. En fait, divers concepts de revenu de base garanti ont \u00e9t\u00e9 mis \u00e0 l\u2019essai sur de nombreuses d\u00e9cennies, mais pour une raison ou une autre, on dispose de peu de documentation sur la fa\u00e7on dont ces syst\u00e8mes fonctionnaient, voire pas du tout.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798774\" data-originallang=\"en\">Une autre d\u00e9put\u00e9e a mentionn\u00e9 un programme men\u00e9 \u00e0 Dauphin, au Manitoba, dans les ann\u00e9es 1970, une \u00e9poque bien diff\u00e9rente de la n\u00f4tre. On ne dispose pas vraiment de donn\u00e9es \u00e0 ce sujet. La plus r\u00e9cente tentative, du moins au Canada, a \u00e9t\u00e9 le projet pilote sur le revenu de base de l\u2019Ontario, mis en \u0153uvre par le gouvernement Wynne pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent, qui a ensuite \u00e9t\u00e9 annul\u00e9 par le nouveau gouvernement Ford, avant que les r\u00e9sultats ne soient connus. Je pense qu\u2019on fondait beaucoup d\u2019espoir dans ce projet pour qu\u2019il nous donne une base de r\u00e9f\u00e9rence sur la fa\u00e7on dont fonctionnerait un revenu annuel garanti.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798775\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11111622\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-273/\" title=\"An Act to establish a national strategy for a guaranteed basic income\">C\u2011273</a> ne pr\u00e9juge pas de la meilleure approche ou de l\u2019approche parfaite en mati\u00e8re de revenu de base, mais il pr\u00e9pare le terrain pour mener diff\u00e9rents projets pilotes, pour obtenir des donn\u00e9es en temps r\u00e9el et pour surveiller les r\u00e9sultats. Il pousse essentiellement le gouvernement f\u00e9d\u00e9ral \u00e0 faire preuve de leadership dans le cadre de cette strat\u00e9gie nationale.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798776\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le projet de loi C\u2011273 obligerait la <a data-HoCid=\"263831\" href=\"/politicians/chrystia-freeland/\" title=\"Chrystia Freeland\">ministre des Finances</a> \u00e0 \u00e9laborer et \u00e0 d\u00e9poser une strat\u00e9gie pour \u00e9valuer les mod\u00e8les de mise en \u0153uvre d\u2019un programme de revenu de base garanti au Canada. Ce que le projet de loi dit vraiment, c\u2019est qu\u2019il pourrait y avoir diff\u00e9rents mod\u00e8les. Le gouvernement serait responsable de les \u00e9valuer et d\u2019obtenir des donn\u00e9es. La loi exigerait que l\u2019\u00e9laboration se fasse en consultation avec les principaux intervenants, y compris l\u2019industrie, les collectivit\u00e9s et les gouvernements autochtones, ainsi que les administrations municipales, provinciales et territoriales.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798777\" data-originallang=\"en\">J\u2019ai entendu ce que d\u2019autres intervenants ont dit au sujet de ce projet de loi, certains s\u2019y opposant. Mon bon ami de <a data-HoCid=\"252694\" href=\"/politicians/gabriel-ste-marie/\" title=\"Gabriel Ste-Marie\">Joliette</a>, qui si\u00e8ge \u00e9galement au comit\u00e9 des finances, a dit que cela n\u00e9cessiterait une modification constitutionnelle. Ce n\u2019est pas le cas. Ce concept pourrait varier d\u2019une province \u00e0 l\u2019autre. Ce dont nous avons vraiment besoin, ce sont des donn\u00e9es pour \u00e9valuer si cela fonctionnerait vraiment aussi bien que certains le laissent entendre. Il y aurait toutes sortes de consultations, que le gouvernement f\u00e9d\u00e9ral serait tenu de mener aux termes du projet de loi.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798778\" data-originallang=\"en\">La loi \u00e9nonce des mesures pr\u00e9cises que la strat\u00e9gie doit contenir, y compris un projet pilote, des normes nationales et des mesures pour la collecte et l\u2019analyse des donn\u00e9es pertinentes. Je pense que c\u2019est la cl\u00e9. En fin de semaine, j\u2019ai parl\u00e9 \u00e0 un ami qui m\u2019a dit qu\u2019un revenu annuel garanti aurait le m\u00eame effet que la Prestation canadienne d\u2019urgence et en dissuaderait certains de travailler. Je ne crois pas que ce soit n\u00e9cessairement le cas. Les gens pourront parfaire leur \u00e9ducation. Ils chercheront peut-\u00eatre de meilleurs emplois ou des emplois mieux r\u00e9mun\u00e9r\u00e9s. \u00c0 titre de fervent partisan d\u2019un revenu annuel garanti, je suis pr\u00eat \u00e0 mettre mes convictions \u00e0 l'\u00e9preuve. Je crois que cette mesure fonctionnerait. Je crois que les gens voudraient quand m\u00eame travailler. Je crois que cette mesure r\u00e9glerait nos probl\u00e8mes de pauvret\u00e9 au Canada.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798779\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je suis pr\u00eat \u00e0 dire que nous devrions faire un projet pilote. Mettons nos convictions \u00e0 l'\u00e9preuve. Ceux qui s\u2019opposent au projet de loi en disant que ce sera un gaspillage d\u2019argent, que les gens d\u00e9penseront pour de la drogue ou autre chose, devraient aussi mettre leurs convictions \u00e0 l'\u00e9preuve. Faisons un projet pilote de bonne foi dans le cadre duquel nous recueillerons les donn\u00e9es en temps r\u00e9el et d\u00e9montrerons que nous avons raison, d\u2019un c\u00f4t\u00e9 ou de l\u2019autre. \u00c0 mon avis, c\u2019est ce que nous devrions faire. Le ministre, \u00e0 la fin du programme, devrait \u00e9galement pr\u00e9parer un rapport sur les r\u00e9sultats de la mise en \u0153uvre deux ans apr\u00e8s le d\u00e9p\u00f4t de la strat\u00e9gie. Je pense que c\u2019est un aspect vraiment important.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798780\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'aimerais passer \u00e0 l\u2019alin\u00e9a (3)a) du projet de loi, qui se lit comme suit: \u00ab \u00e0 lancer un projet pilote dans une ou plusieurs provinces afin de mettre \u00e0 l\u2019essai divers mod\u00e8les de mise en \u0153uvre d\u2019un programme de revenu de base garanti \u00bb.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798781\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je viens de l\u2019\u00cele-du-Prince-\u00c9douard, une province qui s\u2019est montr\u00e9e dispos\u00e9e \u00e0 faire partie dans son ensemble de ces projets pilotes. Le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"252499\" href=\"/politicians/sean-casey/\" title=\"Sean Casey\">Charlottetown</a> et moi avons rencontr\u00e9 d\u2019innombrables groupes au sujet de l\u2019approche du revenu garanti, et cette province constituerait la plateforme id\u00e9ale pour un projet pilote.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798782\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il y a l\u2019ensemble de la province, puis les grandes collectivit\u00e9s, les plus petites collectivit\u00e9s rurales et urbaines, les h\u00f4pitaux et les \u00e9coles, et seulement 158 000 personnes. Nous pourrions mener un projet pilote \u00e0 l\u2019\u00cele-du-Prince-\u00c9douard. La province, qui a adopt\u00e9 une motion \u00e0 l\u2019Assembl\u00e9e l\u00e9gislative, est pr\u00eate \u00e0 collaborer avec le gouvernement f\u00e9d\u00e9ral pour faire l\u2019essai de l\u2019un de ces projets pilotes. C\u2019est vraiment ce dont nous avons besoin. Ce projet permettrait d\u2019\u00e9tablir au moyen de donn\u00e9es probantes si le syst\u00e8me fonctionne ou non.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798783\" data-originallang=\"en\">L\u2019alin\u00e9a (3)d) est libell\u00e9 ainsi: \u00ab \u00e0 recueillir et \u00e0 analyser des donn\u00e9es afin d\u2019\u00e9valuer, pour chaque mod\u00e8le mis \u00e0 l\u2019essai\u2026 \u00bb. C\u2019est ce que nous devons faire. Nous devons mener des projets pilotes. Je propose d\u2019en faire trois \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9chelle du pays. Je sais qu\u2019il y a un certain int\u00e9r\u00eat en Colombie-Britannique et peut-\u00eatre aussi dans une plus grande r\u00e9gion urbaine, mais il faut mener des projets pilotes, recueillir les donn\u00e9es et les \u00e9valuer.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798784\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ensuite, comme d\u00e9put\u00e9s, quel que soit notre point de vue, nous aurions tous des preuves concr\u00e8tes en temps r\u00e9el, fond\u00e9es sur des donn\u00e9es montrant les r\u00e9percussions de cette mesure sur les gens, leur sant\u00e9, leur revenu, leur collectivit\u00e9 et la population sur le march\u00e9 du travail. Nous saurions si les gens sont pr\u00eats \u00e0 travailler ou \u00e0 faire des \u00e9tudes plus pouss\u00e9es et \u00e0 chercher des emplois mieux r\u00e9mun\u00e9r\u00e9s. C\u2019est le genre d\u2019information dont nous avons besoin et c\u2019est ce que j\u2019aime vraiment dans le projet de loi de la d\u00e9put\u00e9e. Il n\u2019y a pas d\u2019id\u00e9e pr\u00e9con\u00e7ue, seulement la certitude que nous devrions tenter l\u2019exp\u00e9rience.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6798785\" data-originallang=\"en\">En terminant, je tiens \u00e0 parler de l'ancien s\u00e9nateur Hugh Segal. On le cite dans un article de Jamie Swift publi\u00e9 dans le <em>Whig Standard</em>, o\u00f9 il parle de son livre intitul\u00e9 <em>Bootstraps Need Boots: One Tory's Lonely Fight to End Poverty in Canada</em>. Le s\u00e9nateur Segal pr\u00e9conise depuis longtemps le revenu annuel garanti comme moyen pour lutter contre la pauvret\u00e9 au Canada. Voici une fa\u00e7on de d\u00e9couvrir si cette mesure fonctionne vraiment.</p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2021/6/14/wayne-easter-1/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/wayne-easter/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/3253/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "11389550",
    "h1": {
        "en": "Private Members' Business",
        "fr": "Affaires \u00e9manant des d\u00e9put\u00e9s"
    },
    "h2": {
        "en": "National Strategy for a Guaranteed Basic Income Act",
        "fr": "Loi sur la strat\u00e9gie nationale sur le revenu de base garanti"
    },
    "document_url": "/debates/2021/6/14/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fdebates%2F2021%2F6%2F14%2F"
    }
}