Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2021-03-23 15:25:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "The Speaker",
        "fr": "Le Pr\u00e9sident"
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"6577492\" data-originallang=\"en\">I am now ready to rule on the point of order raised on March 10, by the member for <a data-HoCid=\"252939\" href=\"/politicians/brad-vis/\" title=\"Brad Vis\">Mission\u2014Matsqui\u2014Fraser Canyon</a> concerning a discrepancy between the English and French version of Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11031427\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-19/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (COVID-19 response)\">C-19,</a> an act to amend the Canada Elections Act with regard to COVID-19 response.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577493\" data-originallang=\"en\">In his intervention, the member for <a data-HoCid=\"252939\" href=\"/politicians/brad-vis/\" title=\"Brad Vis\">Mission\u2014Matsqui\u2014Fraser Canyon</a> informed the House of the discrepancy between the two versions of a section of the bill. Indeed, at the end of subsection 239(2) on page 12 of the English version, the bill stipulates that ballots should be sent to the \u201cspecial voting rules administrator in the National Capital Region no later than 6:00 p.?m. on the Tuesday\u201d.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577494\" data-originallang=\"en\">The French version, conversely, indicates that the ballot</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577495\" data-originallang=\"fr\">\u201cparvienne au bureau du directeur du scrutin au plus tard \u00e0 18 heures le mardi\u201d. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577496\" data-originallang=\"en\">According to the member, the two texts have very different meanings, which created confusion during the debate at second reading. This discrepancy, he added, suggests that the bill is incomplete. The member cited an extract of <em>House of Commons Procedure and Practice</em>, third edition, at page 734, to the effect that when such situations occurred in the past, the order for second reading was discharged. He thus asked the Chair to review the matter and rule on the admissibility of Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11031427\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-19/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (COVID-19 response)\">C-19</a> in its current form.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577497\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> The member for <a data-HoCid=\"252573\" href=\"/politicians/christine-normandin/\" title=\"Christine Normandin\">Saint-Jean</a> also stressed the importance of participating effectively in the deliberations of the House, while the member for <a data-HoCid=\"252759\" href=\"/politicians/daniel-blaikie/\" title=\"Daniel Blaikie\">Elmwood\u2014Transcona</a> enjoined the parties to find a solution so as not to unduly delay the study of the bill.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577498\" data-originallang=\"fr\">In response, the member for <a data-HoCid=\"252646\" href=\"/politicians/mark-gerretsen/\" title=\"Mark Gerretsen\">Kingston and the Islands</a> clarified that the French wording of subsection 239(2) is, in fact, the right one. He explained that the government intended to correct the inconsistency during clause-by-clause consideration at committee. While an error did occur during the drafting, the member stressed that that in no way means that Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11031427\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-19/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (COVID-19 response)\">C-19</a> is incomplete and that it was indeed in its definitive form when it was tabled in the House. Referring to a Speaker's ruling of January 1987, he added that the error did not make the bill inadmissible because it did not contain blank passages or reach the threshold required to render it incomplete set out in Standing Order 68(3).</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577499\" data-originallang=\"en\">In order to clarify the issue of a bill's form, it is important to review the existing precedents. A careful reading of the Speaker's rulings reveals that when the order for second reading of a bill was discharged, it was either because it did not comply with an order of the House or because the drafting of the bill was not done or not completed. The following passage must be added to the extract cited by the member for <a data-HoCid=\"252939\" href=\"/politicians/brad-vis/\" title=\"Brad Vis\">Mission\u2014Matsqui\u2014Fraser Canyon</a> at page 734 of Bosc Gagnon: \u201cA bill in blank or in imperfect shape is a bill which has only a title, or the drafting of which has not been completed.\u201d</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577500\" data-originallang=\"en\">In my opinion, that is not the case with Bill <a data-HoCid=\"11031427\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-19/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (COVID-19 response)\">C-19</a> as submitted to the House. Furthermore, the debate at the second reading concerns the principle of the bill and not its specific provisions. In the words of Speaker Fraser in a ruling rendered on January 26, 1987, at page 2,667 of debates, I feel that this difference \u201cdid not affect 'the essence, the principles, the objects, the purpose or the conditions' of the bill.\u201d</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577501\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> In this instance, the error can be corrected by the committee studying the bill. Although it does not happen often, such corrections are sometimes made during the detailed study in committee to ensure that the English and French versions of a bill say the same thing. In the meantime, the government has clarified its intent, and the debate can thus continue on the motion for second reading.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577502\" data-originallang=\"en\">I would like to thank the hon. member for <a data-HoCid=\"252939\" href=\"/politicians/brad-vis/\" title=\"Brad Vis\">Mission\u2014Matsqui\u2014Fraser Canyon</a> for his vigilance. Let me also take this opportunity to reiterate the importance of paying particular attention to both versions of bills, so that members have the same understanding of proposed texts, so they can participate fully in parliamentary business and can perform their duties as legislators.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577503\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you for your attention.</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"6577492\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Je suis maintenant pr\u00eat \u00e0 me prononcer sur le rappel au R\u00e8glement soulev\u00e9 le 10 mars par le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"252939\" href=\"/politicians/brad-vis/\" title=\"Brad Vis\">Mission\u2014Matsqui\u2014Fraser Canyon</a> concernant une incoh\u00e9rence entre les versions anglaise et fran\u00e7aise du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11031427\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-19/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (COVID-19 response)\">C-19</a>, Loi modifiant la Loi \u00e9lectorale du Canada en r\u00e9ponse \u00e0 la COVID-19.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577493\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans son intervention, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"252939\" href=\"/politicians/brad-vis/\" title=\"Brad Vis\">Mission\u2014Matsqui\u2014Fraser Canyon </a> a inform\u00e9 la Chambre d\u2019une diff\u00e9rence entre les deux versions d\u2019un article du projet de loi. En effet, \u00e0 la fin du paragraphe 239(2) de la page 12 de la version anglaise, le projet de loi stipule que les bulletins de vote devraient \u00eatre exp\u00e9di\u00e9s au, et je cite, \u00ab [\u2026] special voting rules administrator in the National Capital Region no later than 6 p.m. on the Tuesday [\u2026] \u00bb. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577494\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans la version fran\u00e7aise, on indique plut\u00f4t que le bulletin, et je cite:</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577495\" data-originallang=\"fr\">\u00ab parvienne au bureau du directeur du scrutin au plus tard \u00e0 18 heures le mardi \u00bb.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577496\" data-originallang=\"en\">Selon le d\u00e9put\u00e9, ces libell\u00e9s ont deux significations tr\u00e8s diff\u00e9rentes, ce qui aurait d\u2019ailleurs cr\u00e9\u00e9 de la confusion lors du d\u00e9bat en deuxi\u00e8me lecture. Cette incoh\u00e9rence, ajoute-t-il, permet de conclure que le projet de loi est de forme incompl\u00e8te. \u00c0 cet \u00e9gard, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 a cit\u00e9 un extrait de <em>La proc\u00e9dure et les usages de la Chambre des communes</em>, troisi\u00e8me \u00e9dition, \u00e0 la page 734, \u00e0 l\u2019effet que lorsque de telles situations se sont pr\u00e9sent\u00e9es dans le pass\u00e9, l\u2019ordre portant deuxi\u00e8me lecture a \u00e9t\u00e9 annul\u00e9. Il a donc demand\u00e9 \u00e0 la pr\u00e9sidence d\u2019examiner la recevabilit\u00e9 du projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11031427\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-19/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (COVID-19 response)\">C-19</a> dans sa forme actuelle.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577497\" data-originallang=\"fr\">La d\u00e9put\u00e9e de <a data-HoCid=\"252573\" href=\"/politicians/christine-normandin/\" title=\"Christine Normandin\">Saint-Jean</a> a aussi mis l'accent sur l'importance de prendre part efficacement aux d\u00e9lib\u00e9rations de la Chambre, tandis que le d\u00e9put\u00e9 d'<a data-HoCid=\"252759\" href=\"/politicians/daniel-blaikie/\" title=\"Daniel Blaikie\">Elmwood\u2014Transcona</a> a enjoint les partis de trouver une solution afin de ne pas retarder ind\u00fbment l'\u00e9tude du projet de loi.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577498\" data-originallang=\"fr\">En r\u00e9ponse, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"252646\" href=\"/politicians/mark-gerretsen/\" title=\"Mark Gerretsen\">Kingston et les \u00celes</a> a clarifi\u00e9 que le libell\u00e9 en fran\u00e7ais du paragraphe 239(2) est bel et bien le bon. Il a fait valoir que le gouvernement proposerait de corriger cette incoh\u00e9rence lors de l'\u00e9tude article par article en comit\u00e9. Bien qu'une erreur se soit gliss\u00e9e au moment de la r\u00e9daction, le d\u00e9put\u00e9 a tenu \u00e0 pr\u00e9ciser que le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11031427\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-19/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (COVID-19 response)\">C-19</a> n'est pas pour autant incomplet et qu'il \u00e9tait bien dans ce qu'il est convenu de qualifier de forme d\u00e9finitive lorsqu'il a \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9pos\u00e9 \u00e0 la Chambre. En se r\u00e9f\u00e9rant \u00e0 une d\u00e9cision de la pr\u00e9sidence de janvier 1987, il a ajout\u00e9 que l'erreur n'a pas l'effet de rendre le projet de loi irrecevable, puisqu'il ne comporte pas de passages en blanc ou le seuil requis pour le rendre incomplet, comme le stipule l\u2019article 68(3) du R\u00e8glement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577499\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Afin de clarifier la question de la forme d\u2019un projet de loi, il est important d\u2019examiner les pr\u00e9c\u00e9dents en la mati\u00e8re. Une lecture attentive des d\u00e9cisions de la pr\u00e9sidence r\u00e9v\u00e8le en effet que lorsqu\u2019un ordre portant deuxi\u00e8me lecture d\u2019un projet de loi a \u00e9t\u00e9 r\u00e9voqu\u00e9, c\u2019\u00e9tait soit parce qu\u2019il n\u2019\u00e9tait pas conforme \u00e0 un ordre de la Chambre, soit parce que la r\u00e9daction d\u2019un projet de loi n\u2019avait pas \u00e9t\u00e9 effectu\u00e9e ou compl\u00e9t\u00e9e. \u00c0 l\u2019extrait cit\u00e9 par le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"252939\" href=\"/politicians/brad-vis/\" title=\"Brad Vis\">Mission\u2014Matsqui\u2014Fraser Canyon</a>, il convient d\u2019ajouter le passage suivant de la page 734 du Bosc-Gagnon: \u00ab Un projet de loi en blanc ou de forme incompl\u00e8te est un projet de loi qui se r\u00e9sume \u00e0 un titre ou dont la r\u00e9daction n\u2019est pas termin\u00e9e. \u00bb</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577500\" data-originallang=\"en\">\u00c0 mon avis, ce n\u2019est pas le cas pour le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"11031427\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-19/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (COVID-19 response)\">C-19</a> tel que soumis \u00e0 la Chambre. En outre, le d\u00e9bat en deuxi\u00e8me lecture porte sur le principe du projet de loi et non sur ses dispositions particuli\u00e8res. Ainsi, pour reprendre les mots du Pr\u00e9sident Fraser dans une d\u00e9cision rendue le 26 janvier 1987, \u00e0 la page 2667 des D\u00e9bats de la Chambre des communes, je suis d\u2019avis que cette diff\u00e9rence \u00ab ne nui[t] pas au projet de loi que ce soit sur son fond, ses principes, son objet, ses fins ou ses dispositions \u00bb.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577501\" data-originallang=\"fr\">En l'occurrence, l'erreur pourra \u00eatre corrig\u00e9e par le comit\u00e9 qui sera saisi du projet de loi. Bien que ce ne soit pas fr\u00e9quent, de telles corrections sont parfois effectu\u00e9es lors de l'\u00e9tude d\u00e9taill\u00e9e en comit\u00e9 pour assurer la concordance entre les versions anglaise et fran\u00e7aise d'un projet de loi. Entretemps, le gouvernement a clarifi\u00e9 son intention et le d\u00e9bat peut ainsi se poursuivre sur la motion portant deuxi\u00e8me lecture.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577502\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je remercie l'honorable d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"252939\" href=\"/politicians/brad-vis/\" title=\"Brad Vis\">Mission\u2014Matsqui\u2014Fraser Canyon</a> de sa vigilance. J\u2019en profite aussi pour r\u00e9it\u00e9rer l\u2019importance d\u2019\u00eatre particuli\u00e8rement attentif \u00e0 chacune des versions des projets de loi, afin que les d\u00e9put\u00e9s aient la m\u00eame compr\u00e9hension des textes propos\u00e9s, qu\u2019ils puissent participer pleinement aux travaux parlementaires et ainsi s\u2019acquitter de leurs fonctions \u00e0 titre de l\u00e9gislateurs. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6577503\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci de votre attention.</p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2021/3/23/the-speaker-a-11/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/anthony-rota/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4404/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "11200330",
    "h1": {
        "en": "Government Orders",
        "fr": "Ordres \u00e9manant du gouvernement"
    },
    "h2": {
        "en": "Points of Order",
        "fr": "Recours au R\u00e8glement"
    },
    "h3": {
        "en": "Canada Elections Act\u2014Speaker's Ruling",
        "fr": "La Loi \u00e9lectorale du Canada \u2014 D\u00e9cision de la pr\u00e9sidence"
    },
    "document_url": "/debates/2021/3/23/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fdebates%2F2021%2F3%2F23%2F"
    }
}