Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2020-02-27 11:10:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "Mr. Kyle Seeback (Dufferin\u2014Caledon, CPC)",
        "fr": "M. Kyle Seeback (Dufferin\u2014Caledon, PCC)"
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"6066553\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, I am happy to stand today to add my voice to this debate. I think it is a particularly important debate. It is an important subject, and I think there are a lot of issues that need to be discussed.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066554\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I am going to confine my comments to issues I have with the bill, things I am concerned about, and my genuine belief that the government will take a very collaborative approach to this legislation. If we take a collaborative approach to this legislation, Canadians will have trust and faith that we developed legislation to actually address their needs and protect their concerns.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066555\" data-originallang=\"en\">Speaking of concerns, I have a number of them. I will start off by talking about what I consider to be a significant lack of consultation.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066556\" data-originallang=\"en\">This legislation will come up for review in June. It is the five-year mandated review of the legislation. My understanding is that the government has applied for a four-month extension with respect to the implementation of this legislation, which the Quebec court struck down.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066557\" data-originallang=\"en\">If we have this four-month extension and have the mandated review of the legislation scheduled in June, what is the rush? Why have we rushed to introduce legislation prior to that mandatory review, which would, of course, be extensive and broad and far more in depth than any consultation that has been done with respect to the current legislation? My understanding is that there was only about two weeks of public consultation for this legislation. In my opinion, that is woefully deficient given the gravity of the topic we are discussing today.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066558\" data-originallang=\"en\">This is my first real concern. What is the hurry? What is the rush? The court has given us more time to do this, and I believe we should be taking the time to go through the mandatory review and consult with Canadians, and then decide on the path forward. That is my number one concern.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066559\" data-originallang=\"en\">I want to mention that I will be sharing my time with the member for <a data-HoCid=\"252945\" href=\"/politicians/tako-van-popta/\" title=\"Tako Van Popta\">Langley\u2014Aldergrove</a>. My thanks to the page for bringing that to my attention. She is doing an excellent job.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066560\" data-originallang=\"en\">The next thing I want to talk about is palliative care. The <a data-HoCid=\"253395\" href=\"/politicians/patty-hajdu/\" title=\"Patty Hajdu\">minister</a> has made comments in the House today espousing the great investments that are being made by the government in health care, but has not really talked about any specific investments with respect to palliative care. I think that is a critical thing to look at when we discuss this legislation. I want to remind the minister that Bill <a data-HoCid=\"8286156\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-277/\" title=\"An Act providing for the development of a framework on palliative care in Canada\">C-277</a>, an act providing for the development of a framework on palliative care in Canada, was passed in the previous Parliament in 2017, and clearly states in the preamble:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"6066561\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Whereas the Final Report stated that a request for physician-assisted death cannot be truly voluntary if the option of proper palliative care is not available to alleviate a person\u2019s suffering; </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"6066562\" data-originallang=\"en\">This was passed by Parliament, so if we are looking to expand the scope of medically assisted death without also expanding the availability of palliative care, we are doing an incredible disservice to Canadians, because the availability of palliative care in this country is poor at best. I am going to speak about this personally just for a moment.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066563\" data-originallang=\"en\">Both of my parents suffered from terminal cancer. My mother was not able to get into a palliative care facility because there was no palliative care facility available for her, so she passed away in the hospital. My father was also not able to get into palliative care, but fortunately his illness was longer than my mother's, or unfortunately, depending on how one looks at it, and we were able to get private home care that eased his suffering and made sure he was being taken care of. However, there was no way that he was going to be able to get into palliative care within the scope of his illness.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066564\" data-originallang=\"en\">This is affecting Canadians from coast to coast to coast, and the minister has rushed to introduce this bill. Why would the minister not have introduced corollary legislation, or legislation in tandem, or announced increases in funding for palliative care?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066565\" data-originallang=\"en\">In my riding of Dufferin\u2014Caledon, there is a fantastic hospice for palliative care. It is called Bethell Hospice. It only has approximately 15 beds. That is the palliative care option in my riding. For approximately 200,000 people, there are 15 palliative care beds. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066566\" data-originallang=\"en\">Members can imagine that there is a significant number of people who are not able to get into palliative care. Therefore, the option of medically assisted death becomes far more attractive for someone who is not able to enter into a palliative care facility. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066567\" data-originallang=\"en\">I will repeat that it is clearly a violation of legislation that was passed by the House. When people do not have the option for proper palliative care, their consent for a medically assisted death is significantly in question. I am extraordinarily concerned by the lack of any plan by the government to deal with investments in palliative care.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066568\" data-originallang=\"en\">The minister has suggested that there are significant safeguards in place for people who suffer from any type of mental illness. However, I am not sure what those safeguards are. She suggested that just having that condition would exclude someone from obtaining a medically assisted death. What is the definition of that? How are we proving that is the only issue?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066569\" data-originallang=\"en\"> There is no requirement for individuals to go to a psychiatrist in order to assess that they are not suffering from a severe bout of depression. In my own life, I have gone through extraordinary stages and phases of depression during which I actually did not want to live anymore. I was not seeing a psychiatrist at the time. Would I have then been able to avail myself of these services while I was in a period of particular darkness? We know that mental health is an issue that is rampant throughout this country. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066570\" data-originallang=\"en\">Again, I will go back to my first point, which is: Why are we rushing to do this? Why are we not taking the time to go through the five-year review? We need to take the time to find ways to make sure we are safeguarding all Canadians in providing them the option of medically assisted death, if they want it, but also ensuring that people who are choosing this, maybe because of a lack of palliative care, or maybe because of underlying mental health issues, are going to be protected. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066571\" data-originallang=\"en\">These are some of the major concerns I have with respect to this piece of legislation. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066572\" data-originallang=\"en\">Going back to the consultation, two weeks for online submissions with respect to concerns by Canadians is not anywhere near a sufficient amount of consultation. My understanding is that it was mostly online submissions. This is not a way to get the pulse of Canadians with respect to a very significant issue that is going on in this country. I will continue to ask why there was not a longer or broader consultation. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066573\" data-originallang=\"en\">I know this matter will be studied at committee, but having been a member of Parliament now for going on five and a half years, I understand the extreme limitations at committee. We will often have a panel of six witnesses. Those six witnesses will each get their 10-minute statement, and then members of Parliament might get a six-minute intervention to try and raise an issue. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066574\" data-originallang=\"en\">If one is going to suggest that a committee study will be far broader in scope, or somewhat more encompassing than the mandatory statutory five-year review, I will respectfully disagree with that submission. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066575\" data-originallang=\"en\">Committees absolutely do great work, but they also suffer from an extreme pressure of legislation and time. To suggest that one or two weeks or three meetings at committee is sufficient time to analyze, debate and discuss this legislation, I do not think that is the correct answer. We should be putting this legislation off until we have the mandatory five-year review in June, which would allow us to have a far more expansive discussion with respect to all of the issues that are being discussed in the legislation. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066576\" data-originallang=\"en\">These are my comments and concerns with respect to the legislation. I certainly hope the government will listen to these concerns, act collaboratively and co-operatively, and not try to drive this legislation through without listening to legitimate concerns that are being raised by members of the opposition. </p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"6066553\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, je suis heureux d'ajouter ma voix \u00e0 ce d\u00e9bat, que je consid\u00e8re particuli\u00e8rement important. Il s'agit d'un enjeu important, et je crois qu'il faut discuter de bon nombre de ses \u00e9l\u00e9ments.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066554\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vais restreindre mes commentaires aux probl\u00e8mes que me pose ce projet de loi, aux \u00e9l\u00e9ments qui me pr\u00e9occupent, et au fait que je crois sinc\u00e8rement que le gouvernement va adopter une approche tr\u00e8s collaborative au sujet de cette mesure l\u00e9gislative. Si nous adoptons une telle approche, les Canadiens seront convaincus que nous avons \u00e9labor\u00e9 une mesure qui r\u00e9pond vraiment \u00e0 leurs besoins et \u00e0 leurs pr\u00e9occupations. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066555\" data-originallang=\"en\">En parlant de pr\u00e9occupations, j'en ai justement quelques-unes, \u00e0 commencer par ce que je consid\u00e8re comme un grave manque de consultation. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066556\" data-originallang=\"en\">La loi doit faire l'objet d'un examen en juin prochain. Il s'agit de l'examen quinquennal obligatoire. Si j'ai bien compris, le gouvernement a demand\u00e9 une prolongation de quatre mois du d\u00e9lai pour corriger les dispositions de la loi invalid\u00e9es par la Cour sup\u00e9rieure du Qu\u00e9bec. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066557\" data-originallang=\"en\">Si le d\u00e9lai est prolong\u00e9 de quatre mois et que l'examen obligatoire de la loi est pr\u00e9vu en juin, pourquoi se presser? Pourquoi s'\u00eatre pr\u00e9cipit\u00e9 pour pr\u00e9senter ce projet de loi avant l'examen obligatoire, qui sera \u00e9videmment vaste et beaucoup plus exhaustif que toute consultation qui aurait eu lieu en lien avec le pr\u00e9sent projet de loi? Si j'ai bien compris, ce projet de loi n'a fait l'objet que d'environ deux semaines de consultations. \u00c0 mon avis, c'est nettement insuffisant compte tenu de la gravit\u00e9 du sujet abord\u00e9. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066558\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est l\u00e0 ma premi\u00e8re v\u00e9ritable pr\u00e9occupation. Pourquoi se presser? Il n'y a pas le feu. La Cour nous a accord\u00e9 plus de temps pour mener cette t\u00e2che \u00e0 bien, et je crois que nous devrions prendre le temps d'effectuer l'examen obligatoire et de consulter les Canadiens, puis de d\u00e9cider de la voie \u00e0 suivre. Voil\u00e0 ma principale pr\u00e9occupation. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066559\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je tiens \u00e0 pr\u00e9ciser que je vais partager mon temps de parole avec le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"252945\" href=\"/politicians/tako-van-popta/\" title=\"Tako Van Popta\">Langley\u2014Aldergrove</a>. Je remercie la jeune page qui vient de me rappeler \u00e0 l'ordre. Elle fait un excellent travail.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066560\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je vais maintenant me pencher sur les soins palliatifs. Aujourd'hui \u00e0 la Chambre, la <a data-HoCid=\"253395\" href=\"/politicians/patty-hajdu/\" title=\"Patty Hajdu\">ministre</a> a vant\u00e9 les grands investissements effectu\u00e9s par le gouvernement dans les soins de sant\u00e9, mais elle n'a pas vraiment parl\u00e9 d'investissements particuliers dans les soins palliatifs. Je pense qu'il est essentiel de tenir compte de ce point dans les discussions sur le projet de loi. Je rappelle \u00e0 la ministre que le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"8286156\" href=\"/bills/42-1/C-277/\" title=\"An Act providing for the development of a framework on palliative care in Canada\">C-277</a>, Loi visant l\u2019\u00e9laboration d\u2019un cadre sur les soins palliatifs au Canada, a \u00e9t\u00e9 adopt\u00e9 en 2017, lors de la l\u00e9gislature pr\u00e9c\u00e9dente, et que son pr\u00e9ambule dit clairement:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"6066561\" data-originallang=\"en\"> [...] que le rapport final pr\u00e9cise qu\u2019une demande d\u2019aide m\u00e9dicale \u00e0 mourir ne peut \u00eatre v\u00e9ritablement volontaire si le demandeur n\u2019a pas acc\u00e8s \u00e0 des soins palliatifs appropri\u00e9s pour all\u00e9ger ses souffrances; </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"6066562\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cette loi a \u00e9t\u00e9 adopt\u00e9e par le Parlement. Or, si nous cherchons \u00e0 \u00e9tendre le champ d'application de l'aide m\u00e9dicale \u00e0 mourir sans accro\u00eetre \u00e9galement l'acc\u00e8s aux soins palliatifs, nous rendons un tr\u00e8s mauvais service aux Canadiens puisque l'acc\u00e8s aux soins palliatifs au Canada est au mieux m\u00e9diocre. Je vais bri\u00e8vement parler de ma propre exp\u00e9rience dans ce domaine.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066563\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mes deux parents ont souffert d\u2019un cancer incurable. Ma m\u00e8re n\u2019a pas pu entrer dans un \u00e9tablissement de soins palliatifs parce qu\u2019il n\u2019y en avait pas de disponible. Elle est donc d\u00e9c\u00e9d\u00e9e \u00e0 l\u2019h\u00f4pital. Mon p\u00e8re n\u2019a pas pu non plus recevoir de soins palliatifs, mais heureusement ou malheureusement, selon la fa\u00e7on dont on voit les choses, sa maladie a \u00e9t\u00e9 plus longue que celle de ma m\u00e8re et nous avons pu obtenir des soins priv\u00e9s \u00e0 domicile pour all\u00e9ger ses souffrances et \u00eatre certains qu\u2019on s\u2019occupait bien de lui. Cependant, il \u00e9tait \u00e9vident qu\u2019il n\u2019aurait pas acc\u00e8s \u00e0 des soins palliatifs pendant sa maladie.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066564\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce genre de situation touche les Canadiens d\u2019un oc\u00e9an \u00e0 l\u2019autre, et la ministre s\u2019est empress\u00e9e de pr\u00e9senter ce projet de loi. Pourquoi la ministre n\u2019a-t-elle pas pr\u00e9sent\u00e9 un projet de loi corollaire, une mesure l\u00e9gislative en parall\u00e8le, ou annonc\u00e9 une augmentation du financement des soins palliatifs?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066565\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans la circonscription que je repr\u00e9sente, Dufferin\u2014Caledon, il y a un centre de soins palliatifs extraordinaire qui s\u2019appelle Bethell Hospice. Le centre ne compte qu\u2019environ 15 lits. C\u2019est la seule option de soins palliatifs qui existe dans la circonscription de 200 000 habitants que je repr\u00e9sente.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066566\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les d\u00e9put\u00e9s peuvent bien imaginer que de nombreuses personnes sont dans l\u2019impossibilit\u00e9 de recevoir des soins palliatifs. Cela fait de l\u2019aide m\u00e9dicale \u00e0 mourir une option beaucoup plus attrayante pour ces personnes.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066567\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je r\u00e9p\u00e8te qu\u2019il s\u2019agit d\u2019une violation \u00e9vidente de dispositions l\u00e9gislatives adopt\u00e9es par la Chambre. Lorsque les gens n\u2019ont pas la possibilit\u00e9 de recevoir des soins palliatifs ad\u00e9quats, on peut se questionner sur leur consentement \u00e0 l\u2019aide m\u00e9dicale \u00e0 mourir. Je suis extr\u00eamement pr\u00e9occup\u00e9 par l\u2019absence de plan de la part du gouvernement pour investir dans les soins palliatifs.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066568\" data-originallang=\"en\">La ministre a laiss\u00e9 entendre que des mesures de protection importantes sont en place pour les personnes qui souffrent d\u2019une maladie mentale, quelle qu\u2019elle soit. Toutefois, je ne sais pas exactement en quoi consistent ces mesures. Elle a laiss\u00e9 entendre que le simple fait d\u2019avoir ce type de probl\u00e8me de sant\u00e9 emp\u00eacherait quelqu\u2019un d\u2019obtenir l\u2019aide m\u00e9dicale \u00e0 mourir. Comment d\u00e9finit-on cela? Comment pouvons-nous prouver qu\u2019il s\u2019agit du seul probl\u00e8me?</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066569\" data-originallang=\"en\">Rien n\u2019oblige une personne \u00e0 consulter un psychiatre pour qu\u2019il d\u00e9termine qu\u2019elle ne souffre pas d\u2019un \u00e9pisode de d\u00e9pression grave. J\u2019ai moi-m\u00eame travers\u00e9 des stades et des phases extraordinaires de d\u00e9pression, au cours desquels je ne voulais plus vivre. Je ne voyais pas de psychiatre \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9poque. Aurais-je pu b\u00e9n\u00e9ficier de cela alors que je traversais une p\u00e9riode particuli\u00e8rement sombre? Nous savons que la sant\u00e9 mentale est un probl\u00e8me r\u00e9pandu au pays.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066570\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je reviens \u00e0 mon premier point, qui est le suivant: pourquoi tant de pr\u00e9cipitation? Pourquoi n'attendons-nous pas l\u2019examen quinquennal? Nous devons prendre le temps de trouver des moyens de prot\u00e9ger tous les Canadiens en leur offrant l\u2019option de l\u2019aide m\u00e9dicale \u00e0 mourir, s\u2019ils veulent s\u2019en pr\u00e9valoir, mais en veillant aussi \u00e0 prot\u00e9ger les gens qui peuvent choisir cette option en raison d\u2019un manque de soins palliatifs ou parce qu'ils ont des probl\u00e8mes de sant\u00e9 mentale.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066571\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce sont l\u00e0 certaines des principales pr\u00e9occupations que j\u2019ai \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9gard de ce projet de loi.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066572\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pour revenir \u00e0 la consultation, donner aux Canadiens deux semaines pour exprimer leurs pr\u00e9occupations en ligne, c\u2019est loin d\u2019\u00eatre une consultation suffisante. Je crois comprendre que la plupart des commentaires ont \u00e9t\u00e9 pr\u00e9sent\u00e9s en ligne. Ce n\u2019est pas une bonne fa\u00e7on de prendre le pouls des Canadiens sur une question aussi importante dont on parle \u00e0 la grandeur du pays. Je vais continuer de demander pourquoi il n\u2019y a pas eu de consultations plus vastes sur une p\u00e9riode plus longue.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066573\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je sais que cette question sera \u00e9tudi\u00e9e en comit\u00e9, mais \u00e9tant d\u00e9put\u00e9 depuis maintenant cinq ans et demi, je connais les limites extr\u00eames impos\u00e9es aux comit\u00e9s. En g\u00e9n\u00e9ral, nous avons un groupe de six t\u00e9moins qui disposent de dix minutes chacun pour faire leur d\u00e9claration. Ensuite, les d\u00e9put\u00e9s ont au mieux six minutes pour tenter de soulever un point.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066574\" data-originallang=\"en\">Si quelqu\u2019un pr\u00e9tend qu\u2019une \u00e9tude en comit\u00e9 aura une port\u00e9e beaucoup plus large, ou du moins plus large que l\u2019examen quinquennal obligatoire, je ne suis respectueusement pas d\u2019accord avec cette personne.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066575\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les comit\u00e9s font de l\u2019excellent travail, mais ils subissent \u00e9galement une \u00e9norme pression \u00e0 cause des projets de loi \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9tude et du manque de temps. Pr\u00e9tendre qu\u2019une ou deux semaines, ou trois r\u00e9unions suffiront au comit\u00e9 pour analyser ce projet de loi et en d\u00e9battre, je pense que ce n\u2019est pas une bonne r\u00e9ponse. Nous devrions reporter l\u2019\u00e9tude du projet de loi jusqu\u2019\u00e0 la tenue de l\u2019examen quinquennal obligatoire, en juin, ce qui nous permettrait d\u2019avoir une discussion beaucoup plus approfondie sur toutes les questions qui y sont soulev\u00e9es.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6066576\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce sont l\u00e0 mes observations et mes pr\u00e9occupations au sujet du projet de loi. J\u2019esp\u00e8re vraiment que le gouvernement prendra bonne note de ces commentaires, qu\u2019il agira dans un esprit de collaboration et de coop\u00e9ration et qu\u2019il n\u2019essaiera pas de faire adopter ce projet de loi en faisant fi des pr\u00e9occupations exprim\u00e9es par les d\u00e9put\u00e9s de l\u2019opposition.</p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2020/2/27/kyle-seeback-2/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/kyle-seeback/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4529/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "10787424",
    "h1": {
        "en": "Government Orders",
        "fr": "Ordres \u00e9manant du gouvernement"
    },
    "h2": {
        "en": "Criminal Code",
        "fr": "Le Code criminel"
    },
    "document_url": "/debates/2020/2/27/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fdebates%2F2020%2F2%2F27%2F"
    }
}