Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2020-12-10 12:45:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "Mr. John Brassard",
        "fr": "M. John Brassard"
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"6426671\" data-originallang=\"en\"> And the <em>King of Kensington</em> part, too.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426672\" data-originallang=\"en\">Madam Speaker, we have some concerns with the legislation. There are some good things, like all pieces of legislation, but there are certainly things that provide some inequity that need to be addressed. There have been numerous studies done over the years about upgrading the Broadcasting Act.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426673\" data-originallang=\"en\"> In fact, just recently there was a recommendation from the broadcasting and telecommunications legislative review, which published a report in 2020. It was appointed a few years ago, and its purpose was to look at the key pieces of legislation that govern our communications sector. In that report, there were 97 recommendations based on the objectives of supporting the creation, production and discoverability of Canadian content, and improving the rights of the digital consumer, amongst other things.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426674\" data-originallang=\"en\">In the report, it spoke specifically, and of course Bill <a data-HoCid=\"10926636\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-10/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-10</a> speaks specifically, to online platforms. It speaks to financial contributions by broadcasters and online undertakings, and an update to Canada's broadcasting and regulation policy. It also gives the CRTC increasing powers.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426675\" data-originallang=\"en\">For us, that is probably one of the most concerning parts of the bill, among some others, the fact that it can impose an administrative monetary policy for violations of certain provisions of the act, such as contraventions of regulations or orders made under the act, broadcasting when prohibited to do so and failing to submit information. There are numerous things that the CRTC will gain power on with respect to this. It also provides for oversight of the Canadian broadcasting landscape.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426676\" data-originallang=\"en\">There are things within the bill that definitely need to be worked on. Here is one of the things that the bill does not address, and I want to spend a considerable amount of time on this. Recently I had the opportunity to meet with Metroland newspapers, which is part of the Torstar group. They were advocating on behalf of online digital content.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426677\" data-originallang=\"en\">As members know, the inequity that is created, the disparity of online digital content is significant for those content producers. Oftentimes many of those stories will end up on Facebook or even Google, and a lot of the ad revenue that is being created does not go back to the content providers. That means there has been a significant change in the landscape of digital content in this country as a result of players like Facebook and Google. Facebook and Google profit significantly from that content that is being provided, but those content producers do not. It is causing a significant problem.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426678\" data-originallang=\"en\">In meeting with Metroland, Shaun and Elise brought to my attention some of those concerns. My hope is, and I am writing a letter in support of their ask, that some of what they are suggesting to level the playing field is actually adopted by the government fairly soon. What the bill would not do is address the concerns of the digital content providers.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426679\" data-originallang=\"en\">Their concern, of course, is preserving a functioning journalism industry. They said at the time that citizens around the globe are demanding high-quality journalism and investigative reporting. Nonetheless, the ability of news publishers to continue providing such critical information is under threat by the market power and preferential regulatory treatment of dominant platforms in digital information. Democratic governments are recognizing market failures in the market for news, and they are now working to implement policies to address them.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426680\" data-originallang=\"en\">Just the other day, I was in a conference Zoom call with the new owners of Torstar, who own Metroland Media. Overwhelmingly, the consensus of the community leaders who were on that call spoke about the role of journalism, the role of truth and the role of providing balance, particularly in the case of local journalism. We had quite an interesting discussion about that because, as we see the evolution of social media platforms, there is a level of disinformation. Therefore, it comes back to a matter of trust in the content being provided by these digital producers.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426681\" data-originallang=\"en\">France, Spain, the U.K. and Australia have already passed regulations. In fact, I am told that just today Australia passed legislation to level the playing field. Again, in the context of Bill <a data-HoCid=\"10926636\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-10/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-10</a>, none of this is addressed in this piece of legislation. What the Australian legislation is designed to do is to reduce the effects of the platforms' market power and to restore balance and fairness in the market for digital advertising and digital news distribution, which is exactly what I heard from Metroland representatives when I met with them. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426682\" data-originallang=\"en\">Other countries, including the U.S., are now analyzing how the market is dominated through those digital platforms, and they are developing regulatory reforms and legislation and beginning antitrust proceedings to rectify the platforms' market dominance. The hope is to continue that discussion here in Canada and end up with either regulation or legislation that solves that inequity in the country. When many of our allies, and I do not mean that in a war context but in regard to the countries that we are aligned with digitally, are engaging in that process, we need to start doing that as a country as well.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426683\" data-originallang=\"en\">Consumer demand for news obviously remains high, not just in the local and national content but also digital content. That speaks to the need for more credible and professional news as a result of that increased demand. There was a time when there was no social media, obviously, and as Canadians we received our news from reputable sources and reputable news people. There is an online demand for that news to continue, but in some cases it is not indicative of what is important or what is factual in a lot of cases.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426684\" data-originallang=\"en\">Therefore, supporting that level playing field for the digital content and the producers of it becomes critical in protecting the truth, and that is what the Metroland representatives are talking about. They are, in their words, approaching market failure because of the inequity that is happening. They reminded me that market failure occurs when participants in a market do not produce an economically and socially optimal outcome because of non-market factors. Examples might be the inclusion of regulatory barriers to enter or market power. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426685\" data-originallang=\"en\">Market failures can take several forms and several of them are applicable to the market for digital ads and news in Canada. The most pressing failure that they indicated was the result of the market power of both Google and Facebook, which I referenced earlier. Google and Facebook, they say, are in an effective duopoly over the market for digital advertising in Canada and its peer nations. Those platforms have segmented the market between search, which is Google, and Facebook for social media, which limits the direct competition between the two.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426686\" data-originallang=\"en\">I know I have spent a lot of time on levelling the digital playing field in support of local content producers, but the concern that I have and the hope that I have is that the government will recognize this inequity and will work toward regulation or legislation that allows for these local content producers and the individuals who work for them to be paid fairly, not just from a monetary standpoint in terms of income but also from advertising as well, because that becomes important to the viability, the sustainability and the legitimacy of the news business in this country, going forward.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426687\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I would be glad to answer any questions.</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"6426671\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Ainsi que quand il a parl\u00e9 de l'\u00e9mission <em>King of Kensington</em>.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426672\" data-originallang=\"en\">Madame la Pr\u00e9sidente, nous \u00e9mettons des r\u00e9serves au sujet du projet de loi. Il comporte de bonnes choses, comme toutes les mesures l\u00e9gislatives, mais d\u2019autres choses aussi qui sont certainement sources d\u2019injustice et doivent \u00eatre corrig\u00e9es. De nombreuses \u00e9tudes ont \u00e9t\u00e9 faites au fil des ann\u00e9es sur la modernisation de la Loi sur la radiodiffusion.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426673\" data-originallang=\"en\">En fait, tout derni\u00e8rement, le Groupe d\u2019examen du cadre l\u00e9gislatif en mati\u00e8re de radiodiffusion et de t\u00e9l\u00e9communications, qui a publi\u00e9 un rapport en 2020, a formul\u00e9 une recommandation. Ce groupe, cr\u00e9\u00e9 il y a quelques ann\u00e9es, devait examiner des mesures l\u00e9gislatives cl\u00e9s qui r\u00e9gissent notre secteur des communications. Dans ce rapport, il formule 97 recommandations qui visent, entre autres, \u00e0 soutenir la cr\u00e9ation, la production et la d\u00e9couvrabilit\u00e9 de contenu canadien, et \u00e0 am\u00e9liorer les droits des consommateurs dans le monde num\u00e9rique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426674\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans le rapport toujours, le groupe d\u2019examen parle pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment, tout comme le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"10926636\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-10/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-10</a> \u00e9videmment, des plateformes en ligne. Il parle des contributions financi\u00e8res des radiodiffuseurs et des entreprises en ligne, et d\u2019une mise \u00e0 jour de la politique du Canada en mati\u00e8re de radiodiffusion et de r\u00e9glementation. Il pr\u00e9conise aussi d\u2019accro\u00eetre les pouvoirs du CRTC.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426675\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pour nous, il s\u2019agit probablement d\u2019un des passages les plus pr\u00e9occupants du projet de loi, le fait qu\u2019il peut imposer des p\u00e9nalit\u00e9s administratives p\u00e9cuniaires pour des infractions \u00e0 certaines dispositions de la loi, comme des infractions \u00e0 des r\u00e8glements ou des ordonnances prises en vertu de la loi, comme diffuser lorsque c\u2019est interdit ou ne pas communiquer certains renseignements. Le CRTC y gagnera en pouvoir \u00e0 de nombreux \u00e9gards. Le projet de loi pr\u00e9voit aussi la surveillance du paysage canadien de la radiodiffusion.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426676\" data-originallang=\"en\">Certains \u00e9l\u00e9ments du projet de loi doivent \u00eatre retravaill\u00e9s. Voici un \u00e9l\u00e9ment qui n'est pas trait\u00e9 dans le projet de loi, et je tiens \u00e0 m\u2019arr\u00eater longuement dessus. J\u2019ai eu l\u2019occasion derni\u00e8rement de rencontrer les journaux Metroland, qui font partie du groupe Torstar. Ils se portaient \u00e0 la d\u00e9fense du contenu num\u00e9rique en ligne.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426677\" data-originallang=\"en\">Comme les d\u00e9put\u00e9s le savent, l\u2019iniquit\u00e9 qui est cr\u00e9\u00e9e, la disparit\u00e9 dans le contenu num\u00e9rique en ligne, est importante pour ces producteurs de contenu. Souvent, beaucoup de ces histoires finiront sur Facebook ou m\u00eame Google, et une grande partie des recettes publicitaires qui sont cr\u00e9\u00e9es ne reviennent pas aux fournisseurs de contenu. Cela veut dire que le paysage du contenu num\u00e9rique a beaucoup chang\u00e9 dans ce pays \u00e0 cause d\u2019acteurs comme Facebook et Google. Facebook et Google profitent \u00e9norm\u00e9ment de ce contenu qui est fourni, mais pas les fournisseurs de contenu, ce qui cr\u00e9e un probl\u00e8me de taille.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426678\" data-originallang=\"en\">Quand j\u2019ai rencontr\u00e9 Metroland, Shaun et Elise ont attir\u00e9 mon attention sur certains sujets de pr\u00e9occupation. J\u2019esp\u00e8re, et j\u2019\u00e9cris une lettre en appui \u00e0 leur demande, que le gouvernement adoptera assez rapidement certaines des solutions qu\u2019ils proposent pour uniformiser les r\u00e8gles du jeu. Le projet de loi ne r\u00e9pond pas aux pr\u00e9occupations des fournisseurs de contenu num\u00e9rique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426679\" data-originallang=\"en\">Leur souci, \u00e9videmment, est de pr\u00e9server une industrie du journalisme fonctionnelle. D\u2019apr\u00e8s eux, les citoyens du monde entier demandent un journalisme et un journalisme d\u2019enqu\u00eate de qualit\u00e9. N\u00e9anmoins, la capacit\u00e9 des organes de presse de continuer de fournir des informations essentielles est menac\u00e9e par le pouvoir du march\u00e9 et le traitement r\u00e9glementaire pr\u00e9f\u00e9rentiel qui est accord\u00e9 aux grandes plateformes d\u2019information num\u00e9rique. Les gouvernements d\u00e9mocratiques reconnaissent les failles dans le march\u00e9 des nouvelles, et ils s\u2019efforcent maintenant de mettre en \u0153uvre des politiques pour y rem\u00e9dier.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426680\" data-originallang=\"en\">L\u2019autre jour, j\u2019\u00e9tais en communication par Zoom avec les nouveaux propri\u00e9taires de Torstar, \u00e9galement propri\u00e9taires de Metroland Media. Tous les dirigeants communautaires qui participaient \u00e0 cet appel ont parl\u00e9 du r\u00f4le du journalisme, de la place de la v\u00e9rit\u00e9 et du besoin d'\u00e9quilibre, notamment dans le cas du journalisme local. Nous avons eu une discussion tr\u00e8s int\u00e9ressante \u00e0 ce sujet parce que, nous le voyons dans l\u2019\u00e9volution des plateformes de m\u00e9dias sociaux, il y a de la d\u00e9sinformation. Cela nous ram\u00e8ne \u00e0 la question de la confiance dans le contenu fourni par les producteurs num\u00e9riques.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426681\" data-originallang=\"en\">La France, l\u2019Espagne, le Royaume-Uni et l\u2019Australie ont d\u00e9j\u00e0 adopt\u00e9 des r\u00e8glements. En fait, on me dit qu\u2019aujourd\u2019hui m\u00eame, l\u2019Australie a adopt\u00e9 une loi pour uniformiser les r\u00e8gles du jeu. Encore une fois, le projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"10926636\" href=\"/bills/43-2/C-10/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-10</a>, quant \u00e0 lui, ne traite d\u2019aucun de ces probl\u00e8mes. La loi australienne vise \u00e0 r\u00e9duire les effets du pouvoir sur le march\u00e9 des plateformes et \u00e0 r\u00e9tablir l\u2019\u00e9quilibre et l\u2019\u00e9quit\u00e9 sur le march\u00e9 de la publicit\u00e9 num\u00e9rique et de la diffusion num\u00e9rique des nouvelles, ce que souhaitent pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment les repr\u00e9sentants de Metroland que j\u2019ai rencontr\u00e9s.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426682\" data-originallang=\"en\">D\u2019autres pays, dont les \u00c9tats-Unis, analysent \u00e0 pr\u00e9sent comment ces plateformes num\u00e9riques dominent le march\u00e9 et ils pr\u00e9parent des r\u00e9formes de la r\u00e9glementation ainsi que des lois. Ils lancent aussi des proc\u00e9dures au titre de la l\u00e9gislation antitrust afin de contrer la domination qu\u2019exercent ces plateformes sur le march\u00e9. L\u2019espoir est de continuer cette discussion ici, au Canada, et d\u2019arriver \u00e0 un r\u00e8glement ou \u00e0 une loi qui rem\u00e9die \u00e0 cette iniquit\u00e9. Nombre de nos alli\u00e9s, pas sur le plan militaire, mais plut\u00f4t de pays qui partagent notre optique en ce qui concerne le num\u00e9rique, s\u2019engagent dans ce processus, et nous devons leur embo\u00eeter le pas.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426683\" data-originallang=\"en\">De toute \u00e9vidence, le public reste grand consommateur de nouvelles, pas seulement sur les plans local et national, mais aussi de contenu num\u00e9rique. Il faut donc des nouvelles plus cr\u00e9dibles et professionnelles pour r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 cette hausse de la demande. Il fut un temps o\u00f9 il n\u2019y avait pas de m\u00e9dias sociaux au Canada et, bien s\u00fbr, les nouvelles provenaient de sources et de journalistes respectables. Il y a une demande en ligne pour ce m\u00eame type de nouvelles mais, dans certains cas, l'information ne correspond pas \u00e0 ce qui est important et, dans bien des cas, aux faits.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426684\" data-originallang=\"en\">Par cons\u00e9quent, il devient crucial pour prot\u00e9ger la v\u00e9rit\u00e9 de soutenir des r\u00e8gles du jeu \u00e9quitables en ce qui concerne le contenu num\u00e9rique et ses producteurs, et c\u2019est ce dont les repr\u00e9sentants de Metroland parlent. Ils parlent des failles du march\u00e9 parce que le march\u00e9 est in\u00e9quitable. Ils m\u2019ont rappel\u00e9 que le march\u00e9 ne joue pas son r\u00f4le quand les participants au march\u00e9 ne produisent pas un r\u00e9sultat optimal sur le plan \u00e9conomique et social \u00e0 cause de facteurs ext\u00e9rieurs au march\u00e9. Des obstacles r\u00e9glementaires \u00e0 l\u2019entr\u00e9e ou le pouvoir du march\u00e9 en sont des exemples.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426685\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les failles du march\u00e9 peuvent prendre diverses formes et plusieurs d\u2019entre elles s\u2019appliquent au march\u00e9 de la publicit\u00e9 et des nouvelles num\u00e9riques au Canada. La faille la plus criante qu\u2019ils ont mentionn\u00e9e r\u00e9sulte du pouvoir sur le march\u00e9 de Google et Facebook, ce dont je parlais plus t\u00f4t. Google et Facebook, disent-ils, exercent en r\u00e9alit\u00e9 un duopole sur le march\u00e9 de la publicit\u00e9 num\u00e9rique au Canada et dans les pays comparables. Ces plateformes ont segment\u00e9 le march\u00e9 entre la recherche, dans le cas de Google, et les m\u00e9dias sociaux, dans le cas de Facebook, ce qui limite la concurrence directe entre les deux.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426686\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je sais que j\u2019ai beaucoup parl\u00e9 d\u2019uniformiser les r\u00e8gles du jeu num\u00e9riques pour aider les producteurs de contenu locaux, mais ma crainte et mon espoir, c\u2019est que le gouvernement reconnaisse cette iniquit\u00e9 et s\u2019attache \u00e0 \u00e9laborer un r\u00e8glement ou une loi qui leur permette ainsi qu\u2019aux personnes qui travaillent pour eux de recevoir une juste r\u00e9mun\u00e9ration, pas seulement du point de vue financier ou du revenu, mais aussi du point de vue de la publicit\u00e9, parce que c'est important pour la viabilit\u00e9, la durabilit\u00e9 et la l\u00e9gitimit\u00e9 du secteur des nouvelles au Canada.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"6426687\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je r\u00e9pondrai volontiers \u00e0 toute question.</p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2020/12/10/john-brassard-2/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/john-brassard/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4269/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "p6426671",
    "h1": {
        "en": "Government Orders",
        "fr": "Ordres \u00e9manant du gouvernement"
    },
    "h2": {
        "en": "Broadcasting Act",
        "fr": "La Loi sur la radiodiffusion"
    },
    "document_url": "/debates/2020/12/10/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fdebates%2F2020%2F12%2F10%2F"
    }
}