Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2016-11-28 16:40:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.)",
        "fr": "M. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston et les \u00celes, Lib.)"
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"4665080\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, before I get started with my remarks, specifically I would like to reference the previous speaker. At one point during answering questions he talked about the CPP and not using it as an opportunity to provide middle-income opportunities, yet earlier on his speech he talked about how it was the gold standard that his grandfather came to admire so much. We are left wondering whether or not the member thinks we need to move away from what CPP used to be as opposed to just arguing against what might happen or what he perceives to be happening.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665081\" data-originallang=\"en\">When we talk about this issue, the first thing we need to identify is the fact that there are changes in the workforce. The workforce today is not what it used to be decades ago. In fact, there are far fewer people who are receiving employment pensions or pensions that are being paid for by their employers. The fact of the matter is that in the fifties and sixties, there used to be robust pensions that were set up by employers to pay into these pension plans so that people could have that security when it came time to retire. Many people did enjoy that benefit and take advantage of that.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665082\" data-originallang=\"en\">However, even within those pensions it is changing. Those pensions that used to be so reliable are not as reliable as they used to be, as we see companies and employers starting to do things for various reasons that affect those pensions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665083\" data-originallang=\"en\">Not that long ago in my office in <a data-HoCid=\"213953\" href=\"/politicians/mark-gerretsen/\" title=\"Mark Gerretsen\">Kingston and the Islands</a>, I had a couple of former executives from manufacturing plants that used to operate in Kingston but unfortunately do not anymore, to talk to me about what companies were doing to avert, whether directly or indirectly, paying those pensions out. That just creates less stability and less reliability of the employees to make sure they have that security when they retire, eventually.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665084\" data-originallang=\"en\">It is not just about the changes in the workplace, it is also about young people and what they are coming to expect. Years ago young people could conceivably leave with a high school education, get a good paying job, whether in manufacturing or another sector, that provided them with a pension, that provided them with security during their employment, and then afterwards, provided them with a pension. They could live a comfortable life off that, but things are much different for younger people now. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665085\" data-originallang=\"en\">We have pages who come to this House to help out. Sometimes I look at them and think, is it not much different for them. They are expected to get a university degree or a college degree at a minimum. The vast majority of graduates then go on to post-graduate work, and the debt they incur as a result of that is something they have to carry for many years into the future. They have to start planning to pay that back. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665086\" data-originallang=\"en\">Couple that with the fact that more and more young people now see it more unreasonable that they will actually own a house. There are more people now than ever before who actually come to terms with the fact that they might be renting forever and not actually owning. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665087\" data-originallang=\"en\">As a government it is our responsibility, as this legislative body it is our responsibility to make sure that our society has those reliable and predictable means of knowing that they will be taken care of in the future.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665088\" data-originallang=\"en\">There is also another change in the demographics of then versus now, and that is with respect to the haves and the have-nots. Quite frankly, there are more people who have and many more people who have not, and the middle, in between, is shrinking dramatically. It is changing the way Canadians view that security and stability for the future.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665089\" data-originallang=\"en\">I would submit that it is time that we take a serious look at how we can implement policy to make a change and create a greater security among Canadians. That is about planning for the future, and ultimately it is about what I like to think of as preventive maintenance.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665090\" data-originallang=\"en\">We hear these arguments from the other side of the aisle about spending so much money, forcing small businesses to spend money, and I will get to that point in a second. The one thing we do not talk about is what happens if we do not do this. What if we do not make sure that we are setting up the security now for later? We will pay for it one way or the other.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665091\" data-originallang=\"en\">If we do not pay for it now by making sure the proper measures are in place for CPP, or whatever other measures might come forward, later on we are going to be taking care of those people, and we are going to be paying for it then.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665092\" data-originallang=\"en\"> When I was mayor of Kingston and I was on the health board, I remember the frustration of the health unit that the government was always so unwilling to put money into preventive health care. It was always about reactive measures. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665093\" data-originallang=\"en\">My submission is that this government is doing the exact opposite of that. This government is looking at setting up preventive measures so that generations from now, young workers are properly taken care of and have those measures. By no means is this setting up a middle-class lifestyle. This is providing the bare minimum. This is providing a small portion of what people will actually need to retire.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665094\" data-originallang=\"en\">I also want to address another topic that has come up on the other side of the House today, and no doubt I will be asked a question about it, so maybe I will pre-empt that by talking about it now. It is with respect to small businesses. I am a small business owner. At any given time, I have four or five employees who work for our small business in Kingston. I have no problem with this small increase. We pay source deductions just like every other business does. We pay EI, CPP, and WSIB, and these are necessary to make sure that society is being taken care of. We respect that as a business. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665095\" data-originallang=\"en\">With regard to the small increments over the six-year period between 2019-25, the question is how small businesses will deal with this. We have heard that asked in the House today. The reality is that small businesses have to look at ways they can make this work. They have to find alternatives where necessary. They have to look for opportunities where they might not currently exist. The reality is that in any business, any added cost, whether it is a cost for a product or for a service to add to the business, adds to the bottom line and ultimately adds to an increase in whatever goods or services the individual is selling.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665096\" data-originallang=\"en\">On the point that businesses will have to close their doors, although we would hate to see that and would hope it does not happen, I would suggest that it is a very unlikely scenario.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665097\" data-originallang=\"en\">This is something the Liberal Party ran on and talked about in the election. This should come as no surprise to anyone that we are taking serious action when it comes to CPP and that we are taking the time to make sure that future generations are taken care of. It is about providing dignity with respect to income security for future generations. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665098\" data-originallang=\"en\">Quite frankly, this is the right thing to do. I am extremely supportive of this piece of legislation, and I know that future generations will look back on this and regard this as a pivotal shift in CPP in the direction of helping plan for people's futures.</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"4665080\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, avant de commencer, j\u2019aimerais revenir sur ce qu\u2019a dit l\u2019intervenant pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent. En r\u00e9pondant \u00e0 des questions, il a dit que les pensions du RPC ne devraient pas repr\u00e9senter un revenu de classe moyenne, sauf qu'il avait dit auparavant que ce r\u00e9gime \u00e9tait devenu un mod\u00e8le d'excellence qu'admirait \u00e9norm\u00e9ment son grand-p\u00e8re. Nous sommes en droit de nous demander si le d\u00e9put\u00e9 pense que nous devrions renoncer \u00e0 l\u2019ancien RPC ou bien s\u2019il d\u00e9nonce simplement ce qui pourrait arriver ou ce qui, selon lui, est en train d'arriver.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665081\" data-originallang=\"en\">Quand on parle de ce dossier, la premi\u00e8re chose qu\u2019il faut reconna\u00eetre, c\u2019est que la population active est en train de changer. Ce n\u2019est plus la m\u00eame qu\u2019il y a plusieurs d\u00e9cennies. En fait, il y a aujourd\u2019hui beaucoup moins de gens qui re\u00e7oivent une pension priv\u00e9e ou une pension d'employeur. Dans les ann\u00e9es 1950 et 1960, les employeurs finan\u00e7aient des r\u00e9gimes de pension solides, de sorte que leurs employ\u00e9s pouvaient compter sur ces revenus au moment de leur retraite. Un grand nombre de personnes en ont profit\u00e9 et en profitent encore.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665082\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Cependant, m\u00eame au sein de ces r\u00e9gimes de pension, les choses changent. Les pensions ne sont plus aussi s\u00fbres qu\u2019avant, car, pour toutes sortes de raisons, des entreprises et des employeurs commencent \u00e0 faire des choses qui se r\u00e9percutent sur elles.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665083\" data-originallang=\"en\">Assez r\u00e9cemment, dans mon bureau de <a data-HoCid=\"213953\" href=\"/politicians/mark-gerretsen/\" title=\"Mark Gerretsen\">Kingston et les \u00celes</a>, j\u2019ai rencontr\u00e9 d'anciens cadres qui avaient travaill\u00e9 \u00e0 des usines autrefois implant\u00e9es \u00e0 Kingston, mais h\u00e9las ferm\u00e9es depuis. Ils m'ont parl\u00e9 de ce que font les entreprises pour \u00e9viter, directement ou indirectement, de payer les pensions de leurs employ\u00e9s. Face \u00e0 une telle instabilit\u00e9 et \u00e0 une telle impr\u00e9visibilit\u00e9, notre objectif est d\u2019assurer la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 financi\u00e8re de ces employ\u00e9s quand ils prendront leur retraite.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665084\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il n\u2019y a pas que les changements qui se produisent dans la population active, il y a aussi le fait que les jeunes font face aujourd\u2019hui \u00e0 des perspectives diff\u00e9rentes. Auparavant, les jeunes comptaient normalement finir leur \u00e9cole secondaire et trouver un emploi r\u00e9mun\u00e9rateur, dans le secteur de la fabrication ou ailleurs, qui leur donnerait, avec un bon r\u00e9gime de pensions, la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 financi\u00e8re n\u00e9cessaire pendant leurs ann\u00e9es d\u2019activit\u00e9 et \u00e0 la retraite. Ils comptaient pouvoir vivre une vie d\u00e9cente avec ces revenus, mais, pour les jeunes d'aujourd\u2019hui, les perspectives sont bien diff\u00e9rentes.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665085\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Il y a des pages qui viennent \u00e0 la Chambre pour aider. Parfois, les regardant, je pense que ce n'est pas tr\u00e8s diff\u00e9rent pour eux. Il est attendu d'eux qu'ils fassent, \u00e0 tout le moins, des \u00e9tudes universitaires ou coll\u00e9giales. Les dipl\u00f4m\u00e9s, en grande majorit\u00e9, font ensuite des \u00e9tudes sup\u00e9rieures et, de ce fait, accumulent une dette qui leur prendra bien des ann\u00e9es \u00e0 rembourser. Ils doivent commencer \u00e0 planifier le remboursement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665086\" data-originallang=\"en\"> \u00c0 cela s'ajoute le fait que de plus en plus de jeunes consid\u00e8rent qu'il est improbable qu'ils soient un jour propri\u00e9taire de leur maison. Il y a de plus en plus de gens qui se r\u00e9signent au fait qu'ils ne seront jamais propri\u00e9taires, mais resteront locataires toute leur vie.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665087\" data-originallang=\"en\"> En tant que gouvernement, en tant qu'assembl\u00e9e l\u00e9gislative, nous avons la responsabilit\u00e9 de faire en sorte que notre soci\u00e9t\u00e9 dispose de moyens fiables et pr\u00e9visibles de voir \u00e0 ce qu'ils ne soient pas laiss\u00e9s pour compte \u00e0 l'avenir.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665088\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Entre hier et aujourd'hui, il y a eu un autre changement d\u00e9mographique, qui concerne les riches et les pauvres. Je le dis bien franchement, il y a plus de gens bien nantis qu'avant, mais aussi beaucoup plus qui ne le sont pas et, entre eux, un groupe interm\u00e9diaire qui r\u00e9tr\u00e9cit terriblement. Ce ph\u00e9nom\u00e8ne modifie la perception qu'ont les Canadiens de leur s\u00e9curit\u00e9 et leur stabilit\u00e9 futures.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665089\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Je ferais valoir qu'il est temps d'examiner s\u00e9rieusement les moyens par lesquels nous pouvons mettre en \u0153uvre des politiques qui susciteront un changement et assureront une plus grande s\u00e9curit\u00e9 chez les Canadiens. Il s'agit ici de planifier pour l'avenir et, en derni\u00e8re analyse, de faire ce que je pense \u00eatre de l'entretien pr\u00e9ventif.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665090\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Nous entendons les arguments des d\u00e9put\u00e9s d'en face au sujet de tout l'argent d\u00e9pens\u00e9, des petites entreprises qui seront contraintes \u00e0 faire des d\u00e9penses. Je reviendrai sur ce point dans un instant. Ce qui est pass\u00e9 sous silence, ce sont les cons\u00e9quences de l'inaction. Qu'arrivera-t-il si nous nous abstenons de pr\u00e9parer aujourd'hui la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 de demain? T\u00f4t ou tard, nous devrons payer.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665091\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Si nous ne payons pas maintenant en nous assurant que les mesures appropri\u00e9es sont en place relativement au RPC, ou quelque autre mesure qui pourrait \u00eatre propos\u00e9e, nous aurons, plus tard, \u00e0 nous occuper de ces gens et nous devrons payer pour eux.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665092\" data-originallang=\"en\">Quand j'\u00e9tais maire de Kingston, je si\u00e9geais au conseil de sant\u00e9 et je me souviens de la frustration qu'\u00e9prouvait le service de sant\u00e9 devant la r\u00e9ticence constante du gouvernement \u00e0 investir dans les soins de sant\u00e9 pr\u00e9ventifs. Il n'\u00e9tait question que de mesures r\u00e9actives.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665093\" data-originallang=\"en\"> \u00c0 mon avis, le gouvernement actuel fait justement le contraire. Il cherche \u00e0 mettre en place des mesures pr\u00e9ventives. Ainsi, les jeunes travailleurs des g\u00e9n\u00e9rations futures seront bien prot\u00e9g\u00e9s et pourront b\u00e9n\u00e9ficier de ces mesures. Il ne s'agit aucunement de vouloir garantir aux gens le niveau de vie de la classe moyenne. Il s'agit plut\u00f4t d'assurer le strict minimum, d'apporter une fraction de ce dont les gens ont r\u00e9ellement besoin pour pouvoir prendre leur retraite.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665094\" data-originallang=\"en\">J\u2019aimerais parler d\u2019un sujet qui a \u00e9t\u00e9 abord\u00e9 par les d\u00e9put\u00e9s d'en face aujourd\u2019hui et comme on m\u2019interrogera certainement \u00e0 ce sujet, je pr\u00e9f\u00e8re prendre les devants. Cela concerne la petite entreprise. Je suis moi-m\u00eame propri\u00e9taire d\u2019une petite entreprise \u00e0 Kingston o\u00f9 travaillent en permanence quatre ou cinq employ\u00e9s. La modeste augmentation dont on parle ne pr\u00e9sente pas de probl\u00e8me. Nous faisons des d\u00e9ductions \u00e0 la source comme n\u2019importe quelle entreprise. Nous payons les cotisations \u00e0 l\u2019assurance-emploi, au R\u00e9gime de pensions du Canada et \u00e0 la Commission de la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 professionnelle et de l'assurance contre les accidents du travail. Toutes ces cotisations sont n\u00e9cessaires pour assurer le bien-\u00eatre de la soci\u00e9t\u00e9. En tant qu\u2019entreprise, nous respectons cette pratique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665095\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pour ce qui est des modestes augmentations pr\u00e9vues sur une p\u00e9riode de six ans entre 2019 et 2025, il s\u2019agit de savoir comment les petites entreprises vont pouvoir les absorber. On a pos\u00e9 la question \u00e0 la Chambre aujourd\u2019hui. Le fait est que les petites entreprises doivent trouver des moyens de les absorber et, au besoin, des solutions de rechange. Elles devront envisager des possibilit\u00e9s qui n\u2019existent peut-\u00eatre pas actuellement. Le fait est que tout co\u00fbt suppl\u00e9mentaire, qu\u2019il s\u2019applique \u00e0 un nouveau produit ou service, a des r\u00e9percussions sur le bilan et fait finalement augmenter le prix des biens ou services vendus.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665096\" data-originallang=\"en\">Sur la question des fermetures d\u2019entreprises, nous n\u2019aimerions pas que cela arrive et nous ne l\u2019esp\u00e9rons pas, mais je dirais que ce sc\u00e9nario est tr\u00e8s peu probable.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665097\" data-originallang=\"en\">C\u2019est un sujet que le Parti lib\u00e9ral a abord\u00e9 pendant la campagne \u00e9lectorale. Personne ne devrait se surprendre que nous prenions des mesures importantes par rapport au R\u00e9gime de pensions du Canada ainsi que le temps de bien nous occuper des g\u00e9n\u00e9rations futures qui doivent avoir des revenus suffisants pour vivre dans la dignit\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"4665098\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je le dis bien franchement, c\u2019est ce qu\u2019il faut faire. J\u2019appuie enti\u00e8rement cette mesure l\u00e9gislative et je sais que les g\u00e9n\u00e9rations futures y verront un moment charni\u00e8re de l\u2019\u00e9volution du R\u00e9gime en faveur des retrait\u00e9s.</p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2016/11/28/mark-gerretsen-3/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/mark-gerretsen/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4311/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "9271711",
    "h1": {
        "en": "Government Orders",
        "fr": "Initiatives Minist\u00e9rielles"
    },
    "h2": {
        "en": "Canada Pension Plan",
        "fr": "Le r\u00e9gime de pensions du Canada"
    },
    "document_url": "/debates/2016/11/28/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fdebates%2F2016%2F11%2F28%2F"
    }
}