Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2011-11-03 15:55:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "Mr. Kevin Lamoureux",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"2549091\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Fair share, yes; increasing the actual numbers, no. Therein lies a substantial difference between the Conservatives and the Liberals. As I pointed out, there is a difference in all three political parties. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549092\" data-originallang=\"en\">I have been listening to the speeches given by New Democrats, trying to make an assessment. It reminds me a bit of the debates we had in Manitoba about remote issues versus urban issues. In Manitoba we tried to address that by having percentage variances on fairness in representation. I could be wrong, but I believe it is 5% in the south and then a voter variation in northern Manitoba. Some people want to see the variations increased to a certain degree, but they have been generally well-received. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549093\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I have had the opportunity to ask questions in regard to the NDP position on it. The response I have received are have indicated more concern with the numbering issue. For example, one NDP member said that we should look at England where members sit on benches. I have to wonder if the NDP is trying to give the impression that we should be getting rid of the desks and chairs and bringing in benches. Is that what we need in the House of Commons? That NDP member suggested that we just need to look at the other side of the ocean. I thought that was somewhat interesting. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549094\" data-originallang=\"en\">I would like to continue to flush that debate out and the way to flush it out is to allow the debate to occur, but the Conservatives have limited that. I am interested in hearing more opinions from New Democrats. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549095\" data-originallang=\"en\">As a member of Parliament, I love to share with my constituents not only what Conservatives are saying, but also what New Democrats are saying. I am interested in what they have to say. All I know for sure is that they do not have a problem with increasing the number of MPs by 30. They seem to be of the opinion that the percentage in rural ridings has to be increased so the ridings are not as big. They also seem to be of the opinion that it should be at least 25%. I might be corrected on that in terms of the province of Quebec. We will see how this whole discussion evolves.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549096\" data-originallang=\"en\">I want to focus attention on the size factor. How many constituents is the optimum number of constituents that a member of Parliament can actually represent? I suggest a lot of that depends on resources. If members of Parliament are not given any resources, then they will not have the ability to hire people and service constituents, so they will want relatively small constituencies. If members of Parliament are provided with the opportunity to employ people, then they will be able to service a larger number of constituents.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549097\" data-originallang=\"en\">In terms of the size of a constituency, we need to factor in the types of resources provided to members of Parliament to serve their constituents. I would be most interested in hearing about that.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549098\" data-originallang=\"en\">I am quite satisfied, I must say, with the resources that I personally have been entrusted with and I do not take them for granted. However, as compared with being an MLA in the Manitoba Legislature, a member of Parliament gets considerably more resources, but the constituency is considerably larger. I think that somewhat proves the point. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549099\" data-originallang=\"en\">In Manitoba, for example, there are 57 MLAs. An MLA has resources somewhere in the neighbourhood of about $60,000, which allows him or her to have a constituency office and a staff person. Compare that to a federal constituency and we would see is that in Manitoba roughly four and a half provincial constituencies make up one federal constituency. If we do the math, it is not that far off, in terms of resources that are provided to a member of Parliament versus an MLA.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549100\" data-originallang=\"en\">I believe, given the resources that a member of Parliament is given here in Ottawa, that I am quite able to provide the same sorts of services that I would have been able to provide as an MLA, even though it is a much larger population base. That is why when I bring forward the argument asking whether we have to increase the numbers of members of Parliament, I challenge the government to provide a rationale as to why we need more members of Parliament.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549101\" data-originallang=\"en\">The rationale that the Conservatives are using now is just strictly that they want to give more MPs to Ontario, Quebec, well, Quebec is more of an afterthought for the Conservative Party, Alberta and British Columbia. In essence that has been their rationale. They just want to give them more MPs and that by giving them more MPs, they would have more clout and there would be fairer representation, in terms of the equality of one vote.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549102\" data-originallang=\"en\">Let us look at the numbers. We have 308 seats now. That is an actual increase of 30 seats. Ontario would get 15 seats, Alberta would get six seats, B.C. would get six seats, and the province of Quebec would be given three seats.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549103\" data-originallang=\"en\">We have to put that into the perspective of the economy. Here we have a government, in its most recent budget, that is talking about the economy and how it is going to address, in part, the economy by making significant cutbacks every day that we are in session. I participate in many discussions among my colleagues. I hear about cutbacks in Atlantic Canada. Those cutbacks are serious. They would change lives in Atlantic Canada. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549104\" data-originallang=\"en\">I suspect whether it is the Atlantic or the Pacific, from coast to coast, we are going to find that there are significant cutbacks taking place, that the government is wanting to downsize bureaucracy and our civil service, thereby reducing services. At the same time, with this bill, the government would increase the number of politicians. It just does not make sense.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549105\" data-originallang=\"en\">My best guess is that if the Conservatives were to really caucus this and have a free vote, there would likely be more support to readjusting within the 308 seats, so that at least they could be consistent with their budget debates. That is just my best guess. However, the chances of that happening, I suspect, are not great. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549106\" data-originallang=\"en\"> I encourage the government to really reflect on what it is that it is doing on two fronts: the time allocation is wrong, the Conservatives are stifling debate; and increasing the number of seats indefinitely is the wrong thing to do. This is not what Canadians want.</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"2549091\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Une juste part, oui; une augmentation des nombres, non. C\u2019est une divergence de vues importante entre les conservateurs et les lib\u00e9raux. Comme je l\u2019ai fait remarquer, il y a des diff\u00e9rences dans les trois partis politiques. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549092\" data-originallang=\"en\">J\u2019ai \u00e9cout\u00e9 les discours des n\u00e9o-d\u00e9mocrates et j\u2019ai essay\u00e9 de faire une \u00e9valuation. Cela me rappelle un peu les d\u00e9bats que nous avons tenus, au Manitoba, au sujet de l\u2019opposition entre les r\u00e9gions \u00e9loign\u00e9es et les r\u00e9gions urbaines. Au Manitoba, nous avons essay\u00e9 de r\u00e9gler la question en \u00e9tablissant des pourcentages d\u2019\u00e9cart en mati\u00e8re de repr\u00e9sentation \u00e9quitable. Je me trompe peut-\u00eatre, mais je crois que c\u2019est 5 p. 100 dans le Sud, et que dans le Nord du Manitoba cela varie. Certaines personnes veulent que les \u00e9carts s\u2019accentuent dans une certaine mesure, mais ces \u00e9carts ont \u00e9t\u00e9 g\u00e9n\u00e9ralement bien accueillis. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549093\" data-originallang=\"en\"> J\u2019ai eu l\u2019occasion de poser des questions sur la position du NPD \u00e0 ce sujet. D\u2019apr\u00e8s les r\u00e9ponses que j\u2019ai obtenues, les pr\u00e9occupations portent surtout sur les nombres. Un d\u00e9put\u00e9 du NPD m\u2019a notamment dit qu\u2019il fallait se tourner vers l\u2019Angleterre, o\u00f9 les d\u00e9put\u00e9s sont assis sur des bancs. J\u2019ai pens\u00e9 que le NPD \u00e9tait peut-\u00eatre d\u2019avis que nous devrions nous d\u00e9barrasser des bureaux et des chaises pour les remplacer par des bancs. Est-ce de cela que nous avons besoin \u00e0 la Chambre des communes? Ce d\u00e9put\u00e9 du NPD semblait dire qu\u2019il suffisait de regarder de l\u2019autre c\u00f4t\u00e9 de l\u2019oc\u00e9an. L\u2019id\u00e9e m\u2019a intrigu\u00e9. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549094\" data-originallang=\"en\"> J\u2019aimerais aller au fond des choses, et la fa\u00e7on d\u2019y parvenir, c\u2019est de laisser le d\u00e9bat se d\u00e9rouler, mais les conservateurs ont impos\u00e9 une limite. J\u2019aimerais entendre d\u2019autres opinions des n\u00e9o-d\u00e9mocrates. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549095\" data-originallang=\"en\"> En tant que d\u00e9put\u00e9, j\u2019adore discuter avec mes \u00e9lecteurs de ce que disent les conservateurs, mais aussi de ce que disent les n\u00e9o-d\u00e9mocrates. Je veux savoir ce qu\u2019ils ont \u00e0 dire. Tout ce que je sais avec certitude, c\u2019est qu\u2019ils ne s\u2019opposent pas du tout \u00e0 l\u2019id\u00e9e d\u2019ajouter 30 d\u00e9put\u00e9s au Parlement. Ils semblent croire que le pourcentage dans les circonscriptions rurales doit \u00eatre relev\u00e9, pour que les circonscriptions ne soient pas aussi larges. Ils semblent aussi croire que cela devrait \u00eatre au moins de 25 p. 100. On me corrigera peut-\u00eatre pour ce qui est du Qu\u00e9bec. Nous verrons bien comment la discussion \u00e9volue. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549096\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Je veux attirer l\u2019attention sur la question de la taille. Quel est le nombre optimal d\u2019\u00e9lecteurs qu\u2019un d\u00e9put\u00e9 peut repr\u00e9senter? Selon moi, c\u2019est dans une large mesure une question de ressources. Si les d\u00e9put\u00e9s ne re\u00e7oivent aucune ressource, alors ils ne seront pas en mesure d\u2019embaucher du personnel ni de servir leurs \u00e9lecteurs et ils voudront alors des circonscriptions de taille relativement modeste. Par contre, s\u2019ils peuvent embaucher du personnel ils seront en mesure de servir un plus grand nombre d\u2019\u00e9lecteurs.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549097\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Quant \u00e0 la taille de la circonscription, il nous faut tenir compte du type de ressources allou\u00e9es aux d\u00e9put\u00e9s pour servir leurs \u00e9lecteurs. J\u2019aimerais bien savoir ce que mes coll\u00e8gues en pensent.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549098\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je dois dire que je suis tr\u00e8s satisfait des ressources qui me sont allou\u00e9es et que je suis bien conscient de ce qu'elles repr\u00e9sentent. Comparativement \u00e0 un d\u00e9put\u00e9 de l'Assembl\u00e9e l\u00e9gislative du Manitoba, un d\u00e9put\u00e9 ici a beaucoup plus de ressources, mais il repr\u00e9sente un \u00e9lectorat beaucoup plus vaste. Je pense que ceci explique cela.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549099\" data-originallang=\"en\">Au Manitoba, par exemple, il y a 57 d\u00e9put\u00e9s provinciaux. Chacun d'eux dispose d'environ 60 000 $, ce qui lui permet d'avoir un bureau de circonscription et un employ\u00e9. \u00c0 c\u00f4t\u00e9 de cela, une circonscription f\u00e9d\u00e9rale au Manitoba repr\u00e9sente en gros quatre circonscriptions provinciales et demie. Si l'on fait le calcul, on voit que les ressources allou\u00e9es au d\u00e9put\u00e9 f\u00e9d\u00e9ral et au d\u00e9put\u00e9 provincial sont en gros semblables proportionnellement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549100\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'estime que, compte tenu des ressources dont je dispose en tant que d\u00e9put\u00e9 \u00e0 Ottawa, je suis en mesure de fournir des services semblables \u00e0 ceux que j'aurais pu fournir en tant que d\u00e9put\u00e9 provincial, m\u00eame si j'ai un \u00e9lectorat beaucoup plus vaste. C'est pour cela que je me demande s'il faut augmenter le nombre de d\u00e9put\u00e9s, et je d\u00e9fie le gouvernement de me donner une bonne raison de le faire.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549101\" data-originallang=\"en\">L'explication que donnent actuellement les conservateurs, c'est uniquement qu'ils veulent donner plus de d\u00e9put\u00e9s \u00e0 l'Ontario, au Qu\u00e9bec, enfin le Qu\u00e9bec est plut\u00f4t un ajout de derni\u00e8re minute pour le Parti conservateur, \u00e0 l'Alberta et \u00e0 la Colombie-Britannique. En gros, c'est cela leur explication. Ils veulent leur donner plus de d\u00e9put\u00e9s et comme cela, avec plus de d\u00e9put\u00e9s, ils auront plus de poids et il y aura une repr\u00e9sentation plus \u00e9quitable du nombre de voix.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549102\" data-originallang=\"en\">Prenons les chiffres. Nous avons actuellement 308 si\u00e8ges. On en rajoute 30. L'Ontario en aurait 15, l'Alberta 6, la Colombie-Britannique 6 et le Qu\u00e9bec 3.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549103\" data-originallang=\"en\">Voyons cela dans le contexte de l'\u00e9conomie. Voici un gouvernement qui a parl\u00e9 de l'\u00e9conomie dans son dernier budget en disant qu'il allait s'en occuper notamment en faisant des compressions importantes chaque jour o\u00f9 nous si\u00e9geons. Je participe avec mes coll\u00e8gues \u00e0 de nombreuses discussions. J'entends parler de compressions dans le Canada atlantique. Ce sont des compressions lourdes, qui vont affecter la vie des gens dans cette r\u00e9gion.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549104\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je pense que de l'Atlantique au Pacifique, d'un bout \u00e0 l'autre du pays, on va assister \u00e0 d'importantes compressions parce que le gouvernement veut rapetisser l'administration et la fonction publique et diminuer ainsi les services. En m\u00eame temps, avec ce projet de loi, le gouvernement veut augmenter le nombre de politiciens. Cela ne tient pas debout.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549105\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je suis persuad\u00e9 que si les conservateurs avaient un vote libre au sein de leur caucus, leurs d\u00e9put\u00e9s pr\u00e9f\u00e9reraient probablement remanier les 308 si\u00e8ges que nous avons pour \u00eatre logiques avec ce qu'ils ont dit dans le budget. Enfin, c'est ce que j'imagine, mais je pense qu'il n'y a gu\u00e8re de chances que cela se produise.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"2549106\" data-originallang=\"en\">J'invite le gouvernement a vraiment r\u00e9fl\u00e9chir \u00e0 ce qu'il fait sur deux fronts: l'attribution de temps est injuste, les conservateurs \u00e9touffent le d\u00e9bat; et l'augmentation ind\u00e9finie du nombre de si\u00e8ges est une erreur. Ce n'est pas ce que veulent les Canadiens.</p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2011/11/3/kevin-lamoureux-9/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/kevin-lamoureux/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4032/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "p2549091",
    "h1": {
        "en": "Government Orders",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "h2": {
        "en": "Fair Representation Act",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "document_url": "/debates/2011/11/3/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fdebates%2F2011%2F11%2F3%2F"
    }
}