Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2009-06-11 16:25:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "Ms. Megan Leslie (Halifax, NDP)",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"1549156\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to the NDP motion put forward by my colleague from <a data-HoCid=\"128487\" href=\"/politicians/wayne-marston/\" title=\"Wayne Marston\">Hamilton East\u2014Stoney Creek</a>. I will be sharing my time with the member for <a data-HoCid=\"128453\" href=\"/politicians/jim-maloway/\" title=\"Jim Maloway\">Elmwood\u2014Transcona</a>.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549157\" data-originallang=\"en\">The motion is about the dignity of Canadians, of senior and retired Canadians. I am far from retirement, but I care a lot about the issues facing seniors.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549158\" data-originallang=\"en\">I would like to share a story with the House.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549159\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Before I became an MP, I worked as a community legal workers in Halifax. I worked on different poverty law issues. I was approached by a group of seniors living in a retirement apartment building. They were tenants and they were having problems with their building. They came to me for legal help and legal support. I helped them organize. This group of seniors mobilized and collectively worked to solve the problems in the building.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549160\" data-originallang=\"en\">A year later when they found out I was running in the 2008 election, they came to me and said to me that I had helped them when they needed help and I was the only one who stood up to help them. Therefore, they said that they were there to help me. They hit the streets. They went out in droves, knocking on doors, talking to their neighbours and they started working on my campaign.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549161\" data-originallang=\"en\">It was interesting at my nomination meeting, a nomination where a young woman was seeking election, an entire section of the audience was filled with my friends who were in their scooters, their walkers and with their well-earned grey hair rooting for me. When I won the election, they came to me and said that they felt invisible to the government, that they felt the issues of seniors were not important issues. They wanted me to go to Ottawa to stand up for them. Therefore, I rise today to honour that commitment.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549162\" data-originallang=\"en\">In my work on poverty, I have often seen people throw up their hands in defeat when they are working on poverty issues. They say that it is too big, that it is too complicated, that there is no solution and that it is too complex.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549163\" data-originallang=\"en\">I always use our Canada pension plan, our old age security and our guaranteed income supplement pension scheme as an example that it can be done. We can solve the problem of poverty. We did it for seniors. We dramatically reduced the rates of poverty in the country.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549164\" data-originallang=\"en\">Professor Lars Osberg is an economist at Dalhousie University. He wrote a paper entitled \u201cPoverty among Senior Citizens: A Canadian Success Story\u201d. The paper looks at the poverty rates among seniors before and after the pension scheme was introduced. As his title suggests, it is a true success story. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549165\" data-originallang=\"en\">Professor Osberg writes that in 1947 Canada had a means tested old age pension plan. It was available for the absolute poorest in Canada. It worked out to about $30 a month. In today's dollars that was about $289 a month. In 1952 that was replaced by the OAS system, the old age security system. OAS was a universal payment of $40 a month. Now that would be worth about $274 according to Lars Osberg.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549166\" data-originallang=\"en\">With income at this level, the result was widespread and acute poverty among Canadians over the age of 65. Canadians had to wait until 1967 for the introduction of the guaranteed income supplement and the Canada pension plan. As the system matured throughout the 1970s, poverty rates among senior citizens dropped dramatically. They plummeted. Rates of poverty were still high for certain groups, and I am thinking especially among senior single women, but by and large this system lifted Canadian seniors out of poverty. It was a remarkable achievement. It was an achievement for all Canadians. Unfortunately today that achievement is slipping away from us.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549167\" data-originallang=\"en\">The motion confronts a critical issue faced by Canadians, and I am very proud to support it. My colleague from <a data-HoCid=\"128487\" href=\"/politicians/wayne-marston/\" title=\"Wayne Marston\">Hamilton East\u2014Stoney Creek</a> has been travelling the country, holding town hall meetings and community forums, where he invites seniors to come in, talk to him, tell him what issues are facing them and what are their concerns.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549168\" data-originallang=\"en\">I had the wonderful opportunity to be with him at one of these town hall meetings in southwester Ontario. What I heard in southwestern Ontario is exactly what I hear in Halifax. Seniors who rely on CPP, OAS and GIS are struggling to survive. They are having to choose between putting food on their tables or keeping their homes heated. The cost of living goes up, but their pension benefits stay the same, so it comes down to nutritious food or medicine.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549169\" data-originallang=\"en\">The motion mandates the government to work with provinces and territories to ensure the sustainability of Canadians' retirement income by bringing forward measures, like expanding and increasing CPP, OAS and GIS, to ensure that all Canadians can count on a dignified retirement. A dignified retirement is something all Canadians deserve.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549170\" data-originallang=\"en\">It is time for the federal government to stop standing on the sidelines, allowing the retirement security of Canadians to be compromised. We want to see real action and leadership. Canadians want to see real action and leadership, Canadians like members of the Canadian Association of Retired Persons, or CARP. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549171\" data-originallang=\"en\">CARP has recently supported a portable, universal pension plan based on the CPP architecture for the nearly one in three Canadians without any retirement savings. There are many out there without these savings. CARP believes this plan should be funded by contributions from employers and employees. It also agrees that self-employed Canadians should be allowed to participate in this plan.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549172\" data-originallang=\"en\">The Canadian Labour Congress is also calling for changes to these schemes. It is calling for a doubling of CPP and QPP to be phased in. One of the wonderful side benefits is that it will not just relieve poverty, but it will also help stimulate our economy. By increasing income supports for seniors through our public pension program, many pensioners, who are living on fixed incomes, would use that money immediately in their local economies. This would equate to a stimulus measure that would ensure more funds would be circulating in communities around Canada.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549173\" data-originallang=\"en\">It would not take much. A $1 billion increase in OAS and GIS would virtually eliminate poverty among seniors in our country. This figure would likely be about $1 billion a year in order to maintain the benefit over time. To some people who are listening or who will be reading this at home, $1 billion may seem like a lot of money, but the 1% cut to the GST equalled $6 billion, so it is about government decisions. It is about choices. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549174\" data-originallang=\"en\">It goes without saying that increasing old age security benefits would protect vulnerable Canadians, especially older women, who, as I mentioned, have been historically a group that have not benefited as robustly from our pension scheme. It would help protect vulnerable people like single, elderly women.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549175\" data-originallang=\"en\">However, another group experiences poverty, despite our existing regime, and that is new Canadians. They face a double disadvantage in the Canadian pension system. Public pension acquisition is very problematic for immigrants because of residency requirements. A 2003 survey found that 26% of recent immigrant seniors were in the lowest income quintile, versus 15% of non-immigrant seniors.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549176\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Expanding and increasing our federal pension program could alleviate poverty among recent immigrant seniors and among single senior women. It is a big win for us.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549177\" data-originallang=\"en\">I have only spoken to the first section of the motion. There are four other sections that make real changes to our pension system, including establishing a pension insurance program for workplace sponsored pension plans, ensuring that workers' pension funds go to the front of the line of creditors in the event of bankruptcy and ceasing the practice of awarding CPP managers performance-based bonuses. All these points are worth supporting.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549178\" data-originallang=\"en\">In short, I am very proud to support my colleague's motion, and I am hopeful that my colleagues on both sides of the House will agree.</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"1549156\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, je me r\u00e9jouis de l\u2019occasion qui m\u2019est donn\u00e9e d\u2019intervenir \u00e0 propos de la motion du NPD d\u00e9pos\u00e9e par mon coll\u00e8gue de <a data-HoCid=\"128487\" href=\"/politicians/wayne-marston/\" title=\"Wayne Marston\">Hamilton Est\u2014Stoney Creek</a>. Je partagerai mon temps avec le d\u00e9put\u00e9 d'<a data-HoCid=\"128453\" href=\"/politicians/jim-maloway/\" title=\"Jim Maloway\">Elmwood\u2014Transcona</a>.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549157\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cette motion concerne la dignit\u00e9 des Canadiens, des personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es et des retrait\u00e9s. Je suis encore tr\u00e8s loin de la retraite, mais je me pr\u00e9occupe du sort des personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549158\" data-originallang=\"en\">Permettez-moi de vous raconter une petite histoire. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549159\" data-originallang=\"en\">Avant d\u2019\u00eatre \u00e9lue, j\u2019\u00e9tais auxiliaire juridique communautaire \u00e0 Halifax. Je m\u2019occupais de questions de droit en lien avec la pauvret\u00e9. Un jour, un groupe de personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es r\u00e9sidant dans un immeuble \u00e0 appartements pour retrait\u00e9s m\u2019a contact\u00e9e. Ces gens \u00e9taient locataires et avaient des probl\u00e8mes avec leur immeuble. Ils \u00e9taient venus me voir pour obtenir une assistance et un soutien juridiques. Je les ai aid\u00e9s \u00e0 s\u2019organiser. Le groupe s\u2019est mobilis\u00e9 et toutes ces personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es se sont unies pour r\u00e9gler les probl\u00e8mes qu\u2019elles avaient dans cet \u00e9difice.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549160\" data-originallang=\"en\">Un an plus tard, quand elles ont appris que je me pr\u00e9sentais aux \u00e9lections de 2008, elles sont venues me dire que je leur avais donn\u00e9 un coup de main quand elles en avaient eu besoin et que j\u2019avais \u00e9t\u00e9 la seule \u00e0 le faire. Elles m\u2019ont donc propos\u00e9 de m\u2019aider \u00e0 leur tour. C\u2019est par nu\u00e9es qu\u2019elles ont envahi les rues pour aller frapper \u00e0 toutes les portes et parler \u00e0 leurs voisins. Elles ont ainsi commenc\u00e9 \u00e0 travailler \u00e0 ma campagne. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549161\" data-originallang=\"en\">Ce qui a \u00e9t\u00e9 int\u00e9ressant lors de mon assembl\u00e9e de mise en candidature, c'est que j\u2019\u00e9tais l\u00e0, jeune femme d\u00e9sireuse de se faire \u00e9lire, avec toute une partie de l\u2019auditoire compos\u00e9e de mes amis venus en fauteuils \u00e9lectriques ou avec des marchettes. Toutes ces t\u00eates dignement grisonnantes \u00e9taient venues m\u2019appuyer. Apr\u00e8s mon \u00e9lection, ces personnes sont revenues me voir pour m\u2019expliquer qu\u2019elles avaient l\u2019impression d\u2019\u00eatre invisibles aux yeux du gouvernement et que les questions concernant les personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es ne semblaient pas importantes. Elles voulaient que j\u2019aille \u00e0 Ottawa pour me tenir debout en leur nom. C\u2019est donc pour honorer cet engagement que je prends la parole aujourd\u2019hui. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549162\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans mon travail sur les dossiers de la pauvret\u00e9, il m\u2019est souvent arriv\u00e9 de rencontrer des gens, \u0153uvrant dans le m\u00eame domaine que moi, qui baissaient les bras. Ils disaient que c\u2019\u00e9tait trop et sans issue, parce que trop compliqu\u00e9, trop complexe. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549163\" data-originallang=\"en\">Dans ces cas-l\u00e0, j\u2019ai toujours cit\u00e9 le R\u00e9gime de pensions du Canada, notre S\u00e9curit\u00e9 de la vieillesse et notre Suppl\u00e9ment de revenu garanti comme autant d\u2019exemples de ce qui peut \u00eatre fait. Il est possible de r\u00e9soudre les probl\u00e8mes de la pauvret\u00e9. Nous l\u2019avons fait pour les personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es. Nous avons consid\u00e9rablement r\u00e9duit les taux de pauvret\u00e9 des a\u00een\u00e9s au Canada.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549164\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le professeur Lars Osberg, \u00e9conomiste \u00e0 l\u2019Universit\u00e9 de Dalhousie, a \u00e9crit un article sur le th\u00e8me de la lutte contre la pauvret\u00e9 pour les personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es qui s\u2019est transform\u00e9e en mod\u00e8le de r\u00e9ussite bien canadien. Il y traite des taux de pauvret\u00e9 chez les personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es avant et apr\u00e8s l\u2019adoption des r\u00e9gimes de pensions. Comme il l\u2019annonce d\u2019entr\u00e9e de jeu, ce fut effectivement une r\u00e9ussite.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549165\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le professeur Osberg nous rappelle qu\u2019en 1947, le Canada disposait d\u2019un r\u00e9gime de pensions de vieillesse li\u00e9 aux ressources. Seuls les plus pauvres pouvaient s\u2019en pr\u00e9valoir. Il rapportait environ 30 $ par mois. En dollars d\u2019aujourd\u2019hui, cela repr\u00e9sente quelque 289 $. En 1952, ce r\u00e9gime a \u00e9t\u00e9 remplac\u00e9 par la S\u00e9curit\u00e9 de la vieillesse, la SV, qui permettait d\u2019obtenir un versement universel de 40 $ par mois, soit \u00e0 peu pr\u00e8s 274 $ d\u2019aujourd\u2019hui, selon Lars Osberg.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549166\" data-originallang=\"en\">Avec de tels niveaux de revenu, la pauvret\u00e9 \u00e9tait tr\u00e8s r\u00e9pandue et tr\u00e8s importante chez les Canadiens de plus de 65 ans. Il nous a fallu attendre 1967 pour que soient adopt\u00e9s le Suppl\u00e9ment de revenu garanti et le R\u00e9gime de pensions du Canada. \u00c0 la faveur de la maturation du syst\u00e8me, dans les ann\u00e9es 1970, les taux de pauvret\u00e9 enregistr\u00e9s chez les personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es ont consid\u00e9rablement diminu\u00e9. Ils ont m\u00eame d\u00e9gringol\u00e9. Les taux de pauvret\u00e9 \u00e9taient, certes, encore \u00e9lev\u00e9s pour certains groupes, et je pense surtout aux femmes \u00e2g\u00e9es vivant seules. En g\u00e9n\u00e9ral, toutefois, ce syst\u00e8me a contribu\u00e9 \u00e0 sortir les a\u00een\u00e9s de la pauvret\u00e9. Il fut une r\u00e9alisation remarquable. Une r\u00e9alisation pour tous les Canadiens. Malheureusement, nous sommes en train d\u2019en perdre les b\u00e9n\u00e9fices. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549167\" data-originallang=\"en\">La motion porte sur un enjeu fondamental auquel sont confront\u00e9s les Canadiens et je suis donc tr\u00e8s fi\u00e8re de l\u2019appuyer. Mon coll\u00e8gue de <a data-HoCid=\"128487\" href=\"/politicians/wayne-marston/\" title=\"Wayne Marston\">Hamilton Est\u2014Stoney Creek</a> a sillonn\u00e9 le pays, a particip\u00e9 \u00e0 des r\u00e9unions publiques et \u00e0 des tribunes communautaires auxquelles il a invit\u00e9 des personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es qui sont venues lui parler, lui exposer leurs probl\u00e8mes et leurs pr\u00e9occupations.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549168\" data-originallang=\"en\">J\u2019ai eu la merveilleuse occasion de me trouver \u00e0 ses c\u00f4t\u00e9s lors d\u2019une de ces r\u00e9unions publiques dans le Sud-Ouest de l\u2019Ontario. Ce que j\u2019ai entendu l\u00e0-bas, je l\u2019avais aussi entendu \u00e0 Halifax. Les personnes \u00e2g\u00e9es qui d\u00e9pendent du RPC, de la SV et du SRG se d\u00e9battent pour survivre. Elles doivent choisir entre s\u2019alimenter et se chauffer. Le co\u00fbt de la vie augmente, mais leurs prestations de retraite ne bougent pas, d\u2019o\u00f9 l\u2019obligation pour elles de choisir entre des aliments nutritifs et des m\u00e9dicaments.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549169\" data-originallang=\"en\">La motion demande au gouvernement de collaborer avec les provinces et les territoires pour assurer la p\u00e9rennit\u00e9 du revenu de retraite des Canadiens en d\u00e9posant, d\u00e8s que possible, des mesures telles que l\u2019\u00e9largissement et la bonification du RPC, de la SV et du SRG afin que tous les Canadiens puissent prendre leur retraite dans la dignit\u00e9. Tous les Canadiens m\u00e9ritent de prendre leur retraite dans la dignit\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549170\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il est temps que le gouvernement f\u00e9d\u00e9ral cesse de rester les bras crois\u00e9s pendant que la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 de la retraite des Canadiens est menac\u00e9e. Nous voulons le voir prendre des mesures concr\u00e8tes et faire preuve de leadership. C\u2019est ce que veulent les Canadiens, notamment les membres de L'Association du Canada pour les gens de 50 ans et plus, ou CARP.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549171\" data-originallang=\"en\">CARP s\u2019est r\u00e9cemment prononc\u00e9e en faveur d\u2019un r\u00e9gime de retraite universel transf\u00e9rable \u00e9tabli sur le mod\u00e8le du RPC pour les Canadiens, dont un sur trois n\u2019a aucune \u00e9pargne-retraite. Un grand nombre de gens n\u2019ont pas d\u2019\u00e9pargne-retraite. CARP estime que ce r\u00e9gime devrait \u00eatre financ\u00e9 par des cotisations des employeurs et des employ\u00e9s. L\u2019association consid\u00e8re \u00e9galement que les travailleurs autonomes devraient pouvoir participer \u00e0 ce r\u00e9gime.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549172\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le Congr\u00e8s du Travail du Canada demande, lui aussi, des changements aux r\u00e9gimes de retraite. Il demande que les prestations du RPC et du RRQ soient progressivement doubl\u00e9es. Cela aurait le grand avantage non seulement de rem\u00e9dier \u00e0 la pauvret\u00e9, mais \u00e9galement de stimuler notre \u00e9conomie. Si nous augmentons l\u2019aide au revenu pour les a\u00een\u00e9s gr\u00e2ce \u00e0 notre programme public de pensions de retraite, un grand nombre de pensionn\u00e9s qui ont un revenu fixe d\u00e9penseront imm\u00e9diatement cet argent dans l\u2019\u00e9conomie locale. Ce serait l\u2019\u00e9quivalent d\u2019une mesure de relance gr\u00e2ce \u00e0 laquelle plus d\u2019argent circulerait dans les collectivit\u00e9s de tout le pays.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549173\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cela ne co\u00fbterait pas tr\u00e8s cher. Une augmentation de 1 milliard de dollars de la SV et du SRG \u00e9liminerait pratiquement la pauvret\u00e9 chez les a\u00een\u00e9s du Canada. Il faudrait environ 1 milliard de dollars par ann\u00e9e pour maintenir les prestations \u00e0 ce niveau. Pour certaines personnes qui nous \u00e9coutent ou qui lisent ces mots \u00e0 la maison, 1 milliard de dollars est peut-\u00eatre un gros montant d\u2019argent, mais la r\u00e9duction d'un point de pourcentage de la TPS \u00e9quivalait \u00e0 6 milliards de dollars. Cela d\u00e9pend donc des d\u00e9cisions que prend le gouvernement. C\u2019est une question de choix.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549174\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il va sans dire que l\u2019augmentation des prestations de S\u00e9curit\u00e9 de la vieillesse prot\u00e9gerait les Canadiens vuln\u00e9rables, surtout les femmes \u00e2g\u00e9es, qui, comme je l\u2019ai dit, n\u2019ont pas b\u00e9n\u00e9fici\u00e9 autant, jusqu\u2019ici, de notre programme de pensions de retraite. Cela prot\u00e9gerait les personnes vuln\u00e9rables telles que les femmes \u00e2g\u00e9es seules.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549175\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il y a toutefois un autre groupe de gens qui connaissent la pauvret\u00e9, malgr\u00e9 le r\u00e9gime actuel, et ce sont les n\u00e9o-Canadiens. Ils sont doublement d\u00e9savantag\u00e9s. Les immigrants ont beaucoup de difficult\u00e9 \u00e0 obtenir une pension publique \u00e0 cause des exigences concernant la r\u00e9sidence. Selon une enqu\u00eate men\u00e9e en 2003, 26 p. 100 des a\u00een\u00e9s qui ont immigr\u00e9 r\u00e9cemment se trouvaient dans le quantile de revenu le plus bas, par rapport \u00e0 15 p. 100 des a\u00een\u00e9s non immigrants.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549176\" data-originallang=\"en\">L\u2019\u00e9largissement et l\u2019augmentation de notre programme f\u00e9d\u00e9ral de pensions de retraite pourraient rem\u00e9dier \u00e0 la pauvret\u00e9 chez les a\u00een\u00e9s qui ont r\u00e9cemment immigr\u00e9 au Canada et chez les femmes \u00e2g\u00e9es seules. Nous aurions beaucoup \u00e0 y gagner.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549177\" data-originallang=\"en\">J\u2019ai seulement parl\u00e9 de la premi\u00e8re partie de la motion. Il y a quatre autres \u00e9l\u00e9ments qui modifieront vraiment nos r\u00e9gimes de pensions. Il s\u2019agit notamment d\u2019\u00e9tablir un programme autofinanc\u00e9 d\u2019assurance-pension pour les r\u00e9gimes de retraite parrain\u00e9s par l\u2019employeur, d\u2019assurer la priorit\u00e9 des caisses de retraite des travailleurs sur les autres cr\u00e9anciers en cas de faillite et de cesser de verser des primes au rendement aux gestionnaires du RPC. Tous ces \u00e9l\u00e9ments m\u00e9ritent d\u2019\u00eatre appuy\u00e9s.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1549178\" data-originallang=\"en\">En r\u00e9sum\u00e9, je suis tr\u00e8s fier d\u2019appuyer la motion de mon coll\u00e8gue et j\u2019esp\u00e8re que mes coll\u00e8gues des deux c\u00f4t\u00e9s de la Chambre seront d\u2019accord.</p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2009/6/11/megan-leslie-1/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/megan-leslie/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1099/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "2831587",
    "h1": {
        "en": "Government Orders",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "h2": {
        "en": "Business of Supply",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "h3": {
        "en": "Opposition Motion--Pensions",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "document_url": "/debates/2009/6/11/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fdebates%2F2009%2F6%2F11%2F"
    }
}