Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2008-05-29 12:50:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "Hon. Andrew Telegdi (Kitchener\u2014Waterloo, Lib.)",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"1125852\" data-originallang=\"en\">Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to participate in this debate. Let me say that this was an issue that we debated, and thought long and hard about at the citizenship and immigration committee. I remember when my colleague from <a data-HoCid=\"78519\" href=\"/politicians/bill-siksay/\" title=\"Bill Siksay\">Burnaby\u2014Douglas</a> first broached the topic that there was initially not a great deal of support. However, we talked about the issue. Afterwards, the committee came out with its report which is now before this House and is asking the House to concur in the majority report of the citizenship and immigration committee.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125853\" data-originallang=\"en\">Having listened to the debate, I want to touch on a few cases where this issue has a historical background when we are talking about people seeking refuge in Canada rather than engaging in combat, doing military service and going to war.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125854\" data-originallang=\"en\">The first case we had in our history was in 1793 when the First Assembly of Upper Canada passed a law exempting Quakers, Mennonites and Tunkers from military duty. This cleared the way for thousands of these people to arrive in Ontario and Canada.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125855\" data-originallang=\"en\">In 1877 there was a large number of German Mennonites living in Russia that expressed an interest in moving to Canada to settle on the Prairies. The government passed an order in council confirming that they too could be exempted from military service.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125856\" data-originallang=\"en\">In 1898-99 the government passed similar orders in council for Doukhobors and Hutterites respectively, thereby facilitating the arrival of more newcomers to the western Prairies.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125857\" data-originallang=\"en\">This whole issue of offering refuge in this country relates to those who are against compulsory military service or against military service where they might have volunteered, but found out during the course of their duty that they were engaged in an illegal war and the cause that they were fighting for was not the cause that they originally joined up for and subsequently developed a conscientious objection.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125858\" data-originallang=\"en\">We do not have to go very far away to show that the issue relates to the war in Iraq and how the administration of the United States misled the American people. Yesterday, we had the reports from the former press secretary to President Bush, who made the allegation that indeed while he was the press secretary and having reflected on the matter, it was an exercise in deception in terms of getting the American public behind the war in Iraq.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125859\" data-originallang=\"en\">The fact that the president's former press secretary is now under attack by associates of the White House is not surprising. If we think back to the timeframe of the Iraq war and the debate that raged throughout the world, where the world community was pleading with the United States not to take unilateral action, that was not to happen. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125860\" data-originallang=\"en\">The United States did invade Iraq with the coalition of the willing. I must say that the ranks of the coalition of the willing has shrunk a great deal. We are now talking about the United States standing virtually alone in Iraq.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125861\" data-originallang=\"en\">The motion we are debating today could very easily be the same action as that taken by Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau, who stated in regard to the Vietnam war:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"1125862\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Those who make the conscientious judgment that they must not participate in this war...have my complete sympathy, and indeed our political approach has been to give them access to Canada. Canada should be a refuge from militarism. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"1125863\" data-originallang=\"en\">When Prime Minister Jean Chr\u00e9tien made the courageous decision and the right decision that Canada was not going to engage in the war in Iraq, he and the Liberal government were attacked by the leader of the Canadian Alliance, the present <a data-HoCid=\"78738\" href=\"/politicians/stephen-harper/\" title=\"Stephen Harper\">Prime Minister</a>, and the present day <a data-HoCid=\"78755\" href=\"/politicians/stockwell-day/\" title=\"Stockwell Day\">public security minister </a>, who was also with the Canadian Alliance at that time. I quote from a letter they sent to the <em>Wall Street Journal</em>:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"1125864\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Today, the world is at war. A coalition of countries under the leadership of the U.K. and the U.S. is leading a military intervention to disarm Saddam Hussein. Yet Prime Minister Jean Chr\u00e9tien has left Canada outside this multilateral coalition of nations. This is a serious mistake. For the first time in history, the Canadian government has not stood beside its key British and American allies in their time of need. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125865\" data-originallang=\"en\"> The Canadian Alliance--the official opposition in parliament--supports the American and British position because we share their concerns, their worries about the future if Iraq is left unattended to, and their fundamental vision of civilization and human values. Disarming Iraq is necessary for the long-term security of the world, and for the collective interests of our key historic allies and therefore manifestly in the national interest of Canada. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125866\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Make no mistake, as our allies work to end the reign of Saddam and the brutality and aggression that are the foundations of his regime, Canada's largest opposition party, the Canadian Alliance will not be neutral. In our hearts and minds, we will be with our allies and friends. And Canadians will be overwhelmingly with us. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"1125867\" data-originallang=\"en\">We do not need to have people coming to Canada and asking for refuge because they do not want to participate in a war that has been judged to be an illegal war.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125868\" data-originallang=\"en\">Canada likes to think of itself as a peacekeeper, and Canadians are most comfortable in that role that Canada plays in the world. As we all know, it was Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson, prior to becoming prime minister, who received the Nobel peace prize for inventing peacekeeping. That peacekeeping situation with the blue berets came into play in the Suez.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125869\" data-originallang=\"en\">We ask the government to stand up and make a decision to support people who seek not to serve in unjust wars and people who are against serving in wars. That is the right thing to do. That is what the Canadian public overwhelmingly expects us to do. I believe the American public does the same.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125870\" data-originallang=\"en\">Look at the support for the president who led the United States into war, which is recorded in history. To their chagrin, the American people realized, unfortunately too late, that this war has had a tremendous cost to the social, economic and moral values of the United States of America.</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"1125852\" data-originallang=\"en\">Monsieur le Pr\u00e9sident, je suis heureux de pouvoir prendre part \u00e0 ce d\u00e9bat. Je dois dire qu\u2019il s\u2019agit d\u2019une question dont nous avons discut\u00e9 et \u00e0 laquelle nous avons r\u00e9fl\u00e9chi longuement et s\u00e9rieusement au Comit\u00e9 de la citoyennet\u00e9 et de l\u2019immigration. Je me souviens que, lorsque mon coll\u00e8gue de <a data-HoCid=\"78519\" href=\"/politicians/bill-siksay/\" title=\"Bill Siksay\">Burnaby\u2014Douglas</a> a abord\u00e9 le sujet pour la premi\u00e8re fois, le soutien n\u2019\u00e9tait pas tr\u00e8s enthousiaste au d\u00e9part. Nous n\u2019en avons pas moins discut\u00e9 de la question. Par la suite, le comit\u00e9 a publi\u00e9 son rapport, dont la Chambre est saisie. La Chambre est invit\u00e9e \u00e0 adopter son rapport majoritaire.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125853\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Apr\u00e8s avoir \u00e9cout\u00e9 le d\u00e9bat, je voudrais dire un mot de quelques cas. Il y a un arri\u00e8re-plan historique \u00e0 cette question, celle des gens qui cherchent refuge au Canada au lieu d\u2019aller au combat, de faire le service militaire et d\u2019aller \u00e0 la guerre.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125854\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Le premier cas de notre histoire s\u2019est pr\u00e9sent\u00e9 en 1793. La premi\u00e8re Assembl\u00e9e l\u00e9gislative du Haut-Canada a adopt\u00e9 une loi exemptant les quakers, les mennonites et les tunkers de l\u2019obligation militaire, ce qui a ouvert la voie \u00e0 des milliers de personnes qui sont venues en Ontario et au Canada. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125855\" data-originallang=\"en\"> En 1877, un grand nombre de mennonites allemands qui habitaient en Russie ont exprim\u00e9 leur int\u00e9r\u00eat pour venir au Canada et s\u2019installer dans les Prairies. Le gouvernement a pris un d\u00e9cret du conseil confirmant qu\u2019ils seraient, eux aussi, soustraits au service militaire. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125856\" data-originallang=\"en\"> En 1898-1899, le gouvernement a pris des d\u00e9crets semblables pour les doukhobors et les hutt\u00e9rites, respectivement, facilitant la venue d\u2019une nouvelle vague dans les Prairies de l\u2019Ouest. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125857\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Le Canada a offert l\u2019asile \u00e0 ceux qui s\u2019opposaient au service militaire obligatoire ou encore qui, apr\u00e8s s\u2019\u00eatre engag\u00e9s volontairement, ont constat\u00e9 pendant leur service qu\u2019ils participaient \u00e0 une guerre ill\u00e9gale et que la cause pour laquelle ils s\u2019\u00e9taient engag\u00e9s au d\u00e9part n\u2019\u00e9tait pas celle pour laquelle ils luttaient. Ce qui les a amen\u00e9s \u00e0 devenir objecteurs de conscience. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125858\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Nous n\u2019avons pas besoin d\u2019aller tr\u00e8s loin pour constater que ces questions sont li\u00e9es \u00e0 la guerre en Irak et montrer que l\u2019administration des \u00c9tats-Unis a induit les Am\u00e9ricains en erreur. Hier, nous avons appris le point de vue de l\u2019ancien secr\u00e9taire de presse du pr\u00e9sident Bush. Il all\u00e8gue que, pendant qu\u2019il \u00e9tait secr\u00e9taire de presse, on s\u2019est efforc\u00e9 de tromper l\u2019opinion pour l\u2019amener \u00e0 appuyer la guerre en Irak. Il s\u2019en est aper\u00e7u apr\u00e8s avoir r\u00e9fl\u00e9chi \u00e0 la question. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125859\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Il n\u2019est pas \u00e9tonnant que l\u2019ancien secr\u00e9taire de presse du pr\u00e9sident soit maintenant la cible de ses coll\u00e8gues de la Maison-Blanche. Rappelons-nous l\u2019\u00e9poque qui a pr\u00e9c\u00e9d\u00e9 la guerre en Irak et le d\u00e9bat qui faisait rage dans le monde entier. La communaut\u00e9 internationale suppliait les \u00c9tats-Unis de ne pas agir unilat\u00e9ralement. Ce fut en vain. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125860\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Les \u00c9tats-Unis ont envahi l\u2019Irak avec la coalition des partenaires pour une m\u00eame cause. Je dois dire que les rangs de cette coalition sont maintenant tr\u00e8s clairsem\u00e9s. Les \u00c9tats-Unis sont \u00e0 peu pr\u00e8s seuls en Irak. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125861\" data-originallang=\"en\">La motion dont nous d\u00e9battons aujourd'hui pourrait tr\u00e8s facilement se faire l'\u00e9cho des mesures prises par le premier ministre Pierre-Elliott Trudeau, qui avait d\u00e9clar\u00e9 ceci au sujet de la guerre au Vietnam: </p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"1125862\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Ceux qui, pour des raisons de conscience, d\u00e9cident de ne pas participer \u00e0 cette guerre [...] ont mon enti\u00e8re sympathie et, en fait, notre politique a consist\u00e9 \u00e0 leur donner acc\u00e8s au Canada. Le Canada devrait \u00eatre un refuge face au militarisme. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"1125863\" data-originallang=\"en\">Lorsque le premier ministre Jean Chr\u00e9tien a courageusement d\u00e9cid\u00e9 que le Canada ne participerait pas \u00e0 la guerre en Irak, lui et son gouvernement ont subi les foudres du chef de l'Alliance canadienne, l'actuel <a data-HoCid=\"78738\" href=\"/politicians/stephen-harper/\" title=\"Stephen Harper\">premier ministre</a>, et du <a data-HoCid=\"78755\" href=\"/politicians/stockwell-day/\" title=\"Stockwell Day\">ministre de la S\u00e9curit\u00e9 publique</a>, qui faisait \u00e9galement partie de l'Alliance canadienne \u00e0 cette \u00e9poque. Voici ce qu'ils ont \u00e9crit dans une lettre envoy\u00e9e au <em>Wall Street Journal</em>:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"1125864\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Aujourd\u2019hui, le monde est en guerre. Une coalition de pays sous la direction de la Grande-Bretagne et des \u00c9tats-Unis a entrepris une action militaire destin\u00e9e \u00e0 d\u00e9sarmer Saddam Hussein, mais le premier ministre Jean Chr\u00e9tien a d\u00e9cid\u00e9 de tenir le Canada \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9cart de cette coalition militaire. C\u2019est une grave erreur. Pour la premi\u00e8re fois dans l'histoire, le gouvernement du Canada n'a pas appuy\u00e9 ses principaux alli\u00e9s, les Britanniques et les Am\u00e9ricains, alors qu'ils avaient besoin de lui. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125865\" data-originallang=\"en\"> L'Alliance canadienne, qui est l'opposition officielle au Parlement, appuie la position des Am\u00e9ricains et des Britanniques dans ce dossier parce qu'elle partage leurs inqui\u00e9tudes. Comme eux, elle craint pour l'avenir si on laisse l'Irak agir \u00e0 sa guise. Elle partage aussi avec eux la m\u00eame vision fondamentale de la civilisation et les m\u00eames valeurs humaines. Le d\u00e9sarmement de l'Irak est n\u00e9cessaire pour garantir la s\u00e9curit\u00e9 \u00e0 long terme du monde et prot\u00e9ger les int\u00e9r\u00eats collectifs de nos alli\u00e9s historiques et, de ce fait, il est manifestement dans l'int\u00e9r\u00eat national de notre pays. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125866\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Ne vous m\u00e9prenez pas, le principal parti d'opposition, l'Alliance canadienne, ne restera pas neutre alors que ses alli\u00e9s lutteront pour mettre un terme au r\u00e9gime de Saddam ainsi qu'\u00e0 la brutalit\u00e9 et \u00e0 l'agressivit\u00e9 qui sont \u00e0 la base de ce r\u00e9gime. Dans l'esprit et par la pens\u00e9e, nous serons avec nos alli\u00e9s et amis. Et les Canadiens nous appuieront en grand nombre. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"1125867\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il n'est pas n\u00e9cessaire que ces gens demandent le statut de r\u00e9fugi\u00e9 au Canada parce qu'ils ne veulent pas participer \u00e0 une guerre qui a \u00e9t\u00e9 jug\u00e9e ill\u00e9gale.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125868\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le Canada aime bien se pr\u00e9senter comme un gardien de la paix et les Canadiens appr\u00e9cient le r\u00f4le qu'ils sont appel\u00e9s \u00e0 jouer \u00e0 l'\u00e9chelle internationale. Comme nous le savons tous, c'est le premier ministre Lester B. Pearson qui, avant de devenir premier ministre, a re\u00e7u le prix Nobel de la paix pour avoir cr\u00e9\u00e9 les Casques bleus. Ces forces de maintien de la paix, les Casques bleus, sont intervenues dans la crise de Suez. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125869\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous demandons au gouvernement de prendre une d\u00e9cision en vue d'appuyer ceux qui ne veulent pas participer \u00e0 des guerres injustes et ceux qui ne veulent pas faire la guerre. C'est ce qu'il convient de faire. C'est ce que la grande majorit\u00e9 des Canadiens veulent que nous fassions. Je crois que la situation est la m\u00eame du c\u00f4t\u00e9 des Am\u00e9ricains. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"1125870\" data-originallang=\"en\">Regardez un peu l'appui qu'a obtenu le pr\u00e9sident qui a men\u00e9 les \u00c9tats-Unis \u00e0 la guerre. \u00c0 leur grand d\u00e9sarroi, les Am\u00e9ricains se sont rendu compte, trop tard malheureusement, que cette guerre avait eu des r\u00e9percussions tr\u00e8s n\u00e9fastes sur les valeurs sociales, \u00e9conomiques et morales des \u00c9tats-Unis d'Am\u00e9rique. </p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2008/5/29/andrew-telegdi-3/",
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    "h1": {
        "en": "Routine Proceedings",
        "fr": ""
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    "h2": {
        "en": "Committees of the House",
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