Speech (House debate)

{
    "time": "2008-04-03 10:15:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "The Deputy Speaker",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"999809\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> Before proceeding to the orders of the day, I am now prepared to rule on the point of order raised on Friday, March 7, 2008, by the hon. <a data-HoCid=\"105838\" href=\"/politicians/peter-van-loan/\" title=\"Peter Van Loan\">Government House Leader</a> alleging the inappropriateness of the response provided by the Vice-Chair of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, the hon. member for <a data-HoCid=\"78429\" href=\"/politicians/marcel-proulx/\" title=\"Marcel Proulx\">Hull\u2014Aylmer</a>, to an oral question raised by the hon. member for <a data-HoCid=\"78912\" href=\"/politicians/432/\" title=\"Tina Keeper\">Churchill</a> during oral questions that day. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999810\" data-originallang=\"en\">I would like to thank the <a data-HoCid=\"105838\" href=\"/politicians/peter-van-loan/\" title=\"Peter Van Loan\">government House leader</a> for raising this matter and the hon. member for <a data-HoCid=\"78924\" href=\"/politicians/ralph-goodale/\" title=\"Ralph Goodale\">Wascana</a> for his intervention.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999811\" data-originallang=\"en\">The <a data-HoCid=\"105838\" href=\"/politicians/peter-van-loan/\" title=\"Peter Van Loan\">government House leader</a> contended that in response to a question posed by the member for <a data-HoCid=\"78912\" href=\"/politicians/432/\" title=\"Tina Keeper\">Churchill</a> regarding the agenda of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, the answer provided by the member for <a data-HoCid=\"78429\" href=\"/politicians/marcel-proulx/\" title=\"Marcel Proulx\">Hull\u2014Aylmer</a> was inappropriate because it was substantive and partisan and, therefore, did not follow the usual practice for this kind of response. He also added that this constituted a breach of the rules of the House that was deliberate and calculated.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999812\" data-originallang=\"en\">The <a data-HoCid=\"79034\" href=\"/politicians/ralph-goodale/\" title=\"Ralph Goodale\">opposition House leader</a> argued that the response given by the committee vice-chair was within the rules of the House since it referred explicitly to the agenda of the committee.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999813\" data-originallang=\"en\">Let me begin by putting this point of order in context. It is well established that questions to committee chairs, with the emphasis on questions, should be strictly restricted to requests for information concerning matters of simple committee administration rather than the substance of their proceedings.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999814\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> In a ruling on May 20, 1970, on page 7126 of the Debates, Mr. Speaker Lamoureux clearly defined the limits of this line of questioning when he stated:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999815\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> \u2026 the only questions which are acceptable when directed to the chairman of a committee are questions which relate to procedural matters\u2014whether a meeting is to be held, whether a committee will be convened, at what time a committee will be held, and so on; \u2026 I think there has to be a very strict limit on questions that may be asked chairmen of committees. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999816\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Furthermore, House of Commons Procedure and Practice at page 429 states:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999817\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> Questions seeking information about the schedule and agenda of committees may be directed to chairs of committees. Questions to the Ministry or a committee chair concerning the proceedings or work of a committee may not be raised. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999818\" data-originallang=\"en\">Our practice in this regard seems quite clear.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999819\" data-originallang=\"en\"> In fact, as recently as February 12, the Speaker had occasion to address the issue of questions to committee chairs and hon. members will recall that he reminded the House of the narrow parameters of questions that are acceptable.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999820\" data-originallang=\"en\">He also took the opportunity to underline the Chair's very limited powers in determining what constitutes an appropriate response to such a question. Specifically, he acknowledged that the Speaker was not the judge of the nature or quality of the response and that the Chair was, in the matter of responses to questions, limited to the language used. Thus, he stated in part:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999821\" data-originallang=\"en\"> If the response is not an answer to the question, I cannot rule the response out of order unless unparliamentary language is used in the response.... </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999822\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Accordingly, in the case complained of, while it appears that the response includes remarks that were unnecessary simply to provide information about the committee\u2019s schedule, in the view of the Chair, those remarks--superfluous to requirements as they may be--nonetheless cannot be construed as unparliamentary and so there are no grounds for ruling them out of order. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999823\" data-originallang=\"en\">I confess that I am somewhat surprised to find the Chair being asked to examine the procedural acceptability of a response during question period. Whatever certain commentators may claim with regard to the prerogatives of the Speaker, the House of Commons has never, to my knowledge, required the Chair to be the arbiter of the appropriateness, completeness or even relevance of responses given to questions during question period. Hence, the old saw that this 45 minute period each day is called question period and not answer period.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999824\" data-originallang=\"en\">However, I must say that I have some sympathy with the concerns that continue to be expressed by members about this category of question. Questions to committee chairs, once rare and exceptional, have lately been used more frequently. This trend and the repeated procedural squabbling it has occasioned prompts me to inform the House that in future when considering the procedural acceptability of such questions, the Chair intends to demand strict adherence to the intended practice, namely, the scheduling and agenda of committee meetings. I am counting on the cooperation of all hon. members in this regard.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999825\" data-originallang=\"fr\">At the same time, I strongly encourage committee chairs or vice-chairs, who are the only members in a position to answer these kinds of questions, to do so in a spirit of fair play and in keeping with the very specific information-seeking strictures that apply to members asking these questions. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999826\" data-originallang=\"en\">I thank the House for its attention.</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"999809\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Avant de proc\u00e9der selon l'ordre du jour, je suis maintenant pr\u00eat \u00e0 rendre ma d\u00e9cision sur le rappel au R\u00e8glement soulev\u00e9 le vendredi 7 mars 2008 par l'honorable <a data-HoCid=\"105838\" href=\"/politicians/peter-van-loan/\" title=\"Peter Van Loan\">leader du gouvernement \u00e0 la Chambre</a>, reprochant le caract\u00e8re inappropri\u00e9 de la r\u00e9ponse donn\u00e9e par le vice-pr\u00e9sident du Comit\u00e9 permanent de la proc\u00e9dure et des affaires de la Chambre, l'honorable d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"78429\" href=\"/politicians/marcel-proulx/\" title=\"Marcel Proulx\">Hull\u2014Aylmer</a>, \u00e0 la question soulev\u00e9e par l'honorable d\u00e9put\u00e9e de <a data-HoCid=\"78912\" href=\"/politicians/432/\" title=\"Tina Keeper\">Churchill</a> au cours de la p\u00e9riode des questions orales ce jour-l\u00e0.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999810\" data-originallang=\"en\">J\u2019aimerais remercier le <a data-HoCid=\"105838\" href=\"/politicians/peter-van-loan/\" title=\"Peter Van Loan\">leader du gouvernement \u00e0 la Chambre des communes</a> d\u2019avoir soulev\u00e9 cette question ainsi que l\u2019honorable d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"78924\" href=\"/politicians/ralph-goodale/\" title=\"Ralph Goodale\">Wascana</a> pour ses interventions. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999811\" data-originallang=\"en\">Le <a data-HoCid=\"105838\" href=\"/politicians/peter-van-loan/\" title=\"Peter Van Loan\">leader du gouvernement \u00e0 la Chambre des communes</a> a soutenu que la r\u00e9ponse donn\u00e9e par le d\u00e9put\u00e9 de <a data-HoCid=\"78429\" href=\"/politicians/marcel-proulx/\" title=\"Marcel Proulx\">Hull\u2014Aylmer</a> \u00e0 une question pos\u00e9e par la d\u00e9put\u00e9e de <a data-HoCid=\"78912\" href=\"/politicians/432/\" title=\"Tina Keeper\">Churchill</a> au sujet du programme du Comit\u00e9 permanent de la proc\u00e9dure et des affaires de la Chambre \u00e9tait inappropri\u00e9e en raison de sa nature substantielle et partisane, et donc contraire \u00e0 l\u2019usage \u00e9tabli pour ce genre de r\u00e9ponse. Il a ajout\u00e9 qu\u2019il s\u2019agissait l\u00e0 d\u2019une violation intentionnelle et pr\u00e9m\u00e9dit\u00e9e du R\u00e8glement de la Chambre.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999812\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Le <a data-HoCid=\"79034\" href=\"/politicians/ralph-goodale/\" title=\"Ralph Goodale\">leader de l'opposition \u00e0 la Chambre</a> a fait valoir que la r\u00e9ponse donn\u00e9e par le vice-pr\u00e9sident du Comit\u00e9 \u00e9tait conforme au R\u00e8glement de la Chambre puisqu\u2019elle portait explicitement sur le programme du Comit\u00e9. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999813\" data-originallang=\"en\">Permettez-moi tout d\u2019abord de mettre ce rappel au R\u00e8glement en contexte. Il est bien \u00e9tabli que les questions pos\u00e9es aux pr\u00e9sidents de comit\u00e9 \u2014 et je souligne qu'il s'agit de questions \u2014 doivent se limiter strictement \u00e0 des demandes de renseignements sur des questions concernant l\u2019administration du comit\u00e9, plut\u00f4t que sur le fond de ses travaux. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999814\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Dans une d\u00e9cision rendue le 20 mai 1970, \u00e0 la page 7126 des <em>D\u00e9bats</em>, le Pr\u00e9sident Lamoureux a clairement d\u00e9fini les limites de ce genre de questions lorsqu'il a affirm\u00e9 que:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999815\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> [...] les seules questions susceptibles d'\u00eatre pos\u00e9es au pr\u00e9sident d'un comit\u00e9 sont des questions touchant des probl\u00e8mes de proc\u00e9dure \u2014 si une r\u00e9union doit avoir lieu, si un comit\u00e9 sera convoqu\u00e9, pour quelle heure, etc.; [...] Je crois qu'il faut limiter au strict minimum les questions qu'on peut poser aux pr\u00e9sidents de comit\u00e9s. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999816\" data-originallang=\"fr\">En outre, comme il est indiqu\u00e9 \u00e0 la page 429 de <em>La proc\u00e9dure et les usages de la Chambre des communes</em>:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999817\" data-originallang=\"fr\"> Les questions visant \u00e0 obtenir de l'information sur l'horaire ou le programme de travail des comit\u00e9s peuvent \u00eatre pos\u00e9es aux pr\u00e9sidents des comit\u00e9s. On ne peut toutefois pas demander de renseignements \u00e0 un ministre ou au pr\u00e9sident d'un comit\u00e9 concernant les d\u00e9lib\u00e9rations ou les travaux d'un comit\u00e9. </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999818\" data-originallang=\"en\">Notre usage en la mati\u00e8re semble sans \u00e9quivoque. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999819\" data-originallang=\"en\">En fait, la pr\u00e9sidence a eu l\u2019occasion, le 12 f\u00e9vrier dernier, de traiter des questions qui peuvent \u00eatre pos\u00e9es aux pr\u00e9sidents de comit\u00e9; les d\u00e9put\u00e9s se souviendront que le Pr\u00e9sident a alors rappel\u00e9 \u00e0 la Chambre le cadre limit\u00e9 des questions qui sont jug\u00e9es acceptables.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999820\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il a \u00e9galement profit\u00e9 de cette occasion pour signaler que la pr\u00e9sidence ne dispose que de pouvoirs tr\u00e8s restreints pour d\u00e9terminer ce qui constitue une r\u00e9ponse appropri\u00e9e. En particulier, il a pr\u00e9cis\u00e9 que la pr\u00e9sidence ne pouvait juger de la nature ou de la qualit\u00e9 de la r\u00e9ponse et que le pr\u00e9sident du comit\u00e9 ne pouvait faire des observations que sur le langage utilis\u00e9 dans la formulation de cette r\u00e9ponse. Par cons\u00e9quent, il a notamment indiqu\u00e9 ce qui suit:</p>\n<blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999821\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Si une r\u00e9ponse ne correspond pas \u00e0 la question pos\u00e9e, je ne peux pas la d\u00e9clarer irrecevable, \u00e0 moins qu\u2019elle ne contienne un langage antiparlementaire, [\u2026] </p>\n</blockquote><p data-HoCid=\"999822\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Dans le cas pr\u00e9sent, m\u00eame s'il semble que la r\u00e9ponse contenait des commentaires qui \u00e9taient inutiles par rapport aux renseignements \u00e0 donner sur le programme du comit\u00e9, la pr\u00e9sidence ne croit pas que ces commentaires \u2014 aussi superflus qu'ils soient \u2014 peuvent \u00eatre qualifi\u00e9s de langage non parlementaire. Il n'y a donc aucune raison de les d\u00e9clarer irrecevables.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999823\" data-originallang=\"en\"> J\u2019admets \u00eatre quelque peu troubl\u00e9 de constater qu\u2019on demande \u00e0 la pr\u00e9sidence de se prononcer sur la recevabilit\u00e9, au plan de la proc\u00e9dure, d\u2019une r\u00e9ponse au cours de la p\u00e9riode des questions. Quoi que certains commentateurs puissent avancer relativement aux pr\u00e9rogatives du Pr\u00e9sident, la Chambre des communes n\u2019a jamais, \u00e0 ma connaissance, demand\u00e9 \u00e0 la pr\u00e9sidence de se prononcer sur l\u2019opportunit\u00e9, l\u2019exhaustivit\u00e9 ou m\u00eame la pertinence des r\u00e9ponses donn\u00e9es aux questions au cours de la p\u00e9riode des questions. D\u2019o\u00f9 la maxime soulignant que cette p\u00e9riode quotidienne de 45 minutes s\u2019appelle la \u00ab p\u00e9riode des questions \u00bb, et non la \u00ab p\u00e9riode des r\u00e9ponses \u00bb. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999824\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cependant, je comprends assez bien les pr\u00e9occupations que les d\u00e9put\u00e9s ne cessent d\u2019exprimer \u00e0 propos de ce type de questions. Les questions pos\u00e9es aux pr\u00e9sidents de comit\u00e9, autrefois rares et exceptionnelles, sont r\u00e9cemment devenues plus fr\u00e9quentes. Cette tendance, et les chamailles r\u00e9p\u00e9t\u00e9es sur le plan de la proc\u00e9dure qu\u2019elles entra\u00eenent, m\u2019incitent \u00e0 informer la Chambre qu\u2019\u00e0 l\u2019avenir, lorsqu\u2019elle examinera la recevabilit\u00e9 de telles questions, la pr\u00e9sidence a l\u2019intention d\u2019exiger le respect rigoureux de l\u2019usage en la mati\u00e8re, notamment le respect de l\u2019horaire ou du programme des r\u00e9unions de comit\u00e9. Je compte sur la collaboration de tous les d\u00e9put\u00e9s \u00e0 cet \u00e9gard. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999825\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Parall\u00e8lement, j'incite fortement les pr\u00e9sidents ou vice-pr\u00e9sidents de comit\u00e9, qui sont les seuls d\u00e9put\u00e9s pouvant r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 ce genre de questions, de le faire dans un esprit de courtoisie et dans le respect des limites tr\u00e8s pr\u00e9cises de la recherche d'informations qui s'appliquent aux d\u00e9put\u00e9s qui posent ces questions.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"999826\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je remercie la Chambre de son attention.</p>"
    },
    "url": "/debates/2008/4/3/the-deputy-speaker-3/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/30/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/1303/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "2394929",
    "h1": {
        "en": "Routine Proceedings",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "h2": {
        "en": "Point of Order",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "h3": {
        "en": "Response to Oral Question by Committee Vice-Chair\u2014Speaker's Ruling",
        "fr": ""
    },
    "document_url": "/debates/2008/4/3/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fdebates%2F2008%2F4%2F3%2F"
    }
}