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This is a single
speech (committee meeting) resource
from the openparliament.ca API. If you’re new here, you might want to look at the documentation. If API and JSON are gibberish to you, you’re better off at our main site.
{
"time": "2014-03-06 09:35:00",
"attribution": {
"en": "Mr. Peter Boag",
"fr": "M. Peter Boag"
},
"content": {
"en": "<p data-HoCid=\"3621473\" data-originallang=\"en\">The economics of the refining business are very complex. As you will know, it's a very capital-intensive industry. When you're talking about building new refining capacity, for a modest size of refinery that's capable of refining the growing amounts of heavy crude, you're talking about an investment of $8 billion, $10 billion, or $15 billion, and of course the payback period for that kind of investment is 25 to 30 years or more.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621474\" data-originallang=\"en\">There's a complex set of variables that really do determine if that is a smart investment and if that investment can address all of the issues associated with commercial risk, economic risk, technical risk, or regulatory risk. It's not a simple decision for someone to decide that they're going to put $10 billion on the table to invest in a new refinery capacity. Also, of course, we have to look at the overall supply and demand situation within the market where Canadian refineries would compete.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621475\" data-originallang=\"en\">Certainly, the challenge in North America for our business is that it's really a declining market when you look at the demographics of North America and our mature transportation systems. There are significant new regulatory requirements that will substantially increase fuel economy and reduce the fuel demand from our vehicle fleet. Of course, there's the diversification of the transportation fuel mix, with more biofuels, electricity, and natural gas.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621476\" data-originallang=\"en\"> All of those factors really come together to create a market\u2014at least in the North American context, where our refineries have traditionally been market participants\u2014that is in fact flat to declining. That's not unique to Canada or North America. That's essentially the situation that exists in any OECD developed country.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621477\" data-originallang=\"en\">We already have enough refining capacity in Canada to more than meet our own demand. We are net exporters of fuels, with significant imports into the U.S. and beyond. The challenge within our current market is that there is already more capacity than there is actual demand. As a result, unfortunately, we've seen refineries closing, particularly in what we call the Atlantic basin, and there's still an overcapacity. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621478\" data-originallang=\"en\">Unfortunately, we've seen refineries close in Canada, and obviously one very close to your constituency, the Imperial Oil Dartmouth refinery. We saw a refinery close in Montreal. Back a decade ago, we saw a refinery close in Oakville, and we saw refineries close in the U.S., in the Caribbean, and in Europe. It really is reflective of this kind of supply and demand dynamics in an overcapacity. It creates a huge challenge in an investment environment to substantiate a $10-billion or $15-billion investment in new refining capacity.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621479\" data-originallang=\"en\">Quite frankly, our members are challenged to keep our refineries viable, competitive, and open, particularly in eastern Canada. The Atlantic basin is the most challenging market right now with respect to an imbalance between capacity and supply.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621480\" data-originallang=\"en\"> So certainly, the access to western crude, the ability to have a more diversified crude access and make choices based in part on price differentials, is an important issue for sustaining the competitiveness of existing refineries. Investors will ultimately determine whether those issues change the competitive dynamics enough to warrant new investment.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621481\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Investment to pursue export markets beyond Canada is again very challenging. We are seeing significant refinery investment already happening in the U.S. Gulf coast and Asia. It's a question of whether the supply and demand dynamics within our traditional local North American markets and also the supply and demand dynamics more broadly across the globe really address satisfactorily the economic, commercial, technical, and regulatory risks that can warrant the investment of the kind we're talking about. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621482\" data-originallang=\"en\">So that's really the complexity of.... It would be great to say that we are producing all this oil, we should just refine it here in Canada, and we should be selling refined products. You need to have a market for it, you have to be able to get it to market, and you have to be able to do it and actually make a reasonable return on investment. That's the issue that investors face today.</p>",
"fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"3621473\" data-originallang=\"en\">L\u2019\u00e9conomie du raffinage est tr\u00e8s complexe. Comme vous le savez, c\u2019est une industrie tr\u00e8s capitalistique. Lorsqu'on parle d\u2019\u00e9tablir une nouvelle capacit\u00e9 de raffinage, pour une raffinerie de taille modeste capable de raffiner les quantit\u00e9s croissantes de p\u00e9trole brut lourd, il s'agit d\u2019un investissement de 8, 10 ou 15 milliards de dollars, et bien s\u00fbr, la p\u00e9riode de r\u00e9cup\u00e9ration pour ce genre d\u2019investissement est de 25 \u00e0 30 ans ou plus.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621474\" data-originallang=\"en\">Il faut tenir compte d\u2019un ensemble complexe de variables qui permettent de d\u00e9terminer s\u2019il s\u2019agit d\u2019un investissement intelligent et s'il y a lieu de r\u00e9gler toutes les questions associ\u00e9es au risque commercial, \u00e9conomique, technique ou r\u00e9glementaire. La d\u00e9cision d\u2019investir 10 milliards de dollars dans une nouvelle capacit\u00e9 de raffinage n'est pas facile. De plus, il faut \u00e9videmment examiner l\u2019offre et la demande au sein d\u2019un march\u00e9 o\u00f9 les raffineries canadiennes se font concurrence.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621475\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bien s\u00fbr, en Am\u00e9rique du Nord, nos entreprises sont confront\u00e9es au d\u00e9fi d'un march\u00e9 en d\u00e9clin, \u00e9tant donn\u00e9 la d\u00e9mographie et la maturit\u00e9 de nos syst\u00e8mes de transport. D\u2019importantes nouvelles exigences r\u00e9glementaires entra\u00eeneront une \u00e9conomie de carburant substantielle, ce qui diminuera la demande de carburant de notre parc de v\u00e9hicules. Bien entendu, il faut aussi tenir compte de la diversification des carburants de transport et de l\u2019utilisation accrue des biocarburants, de l\u2019\u00e9lectricit\u00e9 et du gaz naturel.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621476\" data-originallang=\"en\">Tous ces facteurs entrent en jeu et cr\u00e9ent un march\u00e9 stagnant ou en d\u00e9clin, du moins dans le contexte nord-am\u00e9ricain, o\u00f9 les raffineries sont traditionnellement des participants au march\u00e9. La situation n\u2019est pas propre au Canada ou \u00e0 l'Am\u00e9rique du Nord. C\u2019est essentiellement le cas dans tous les pays d\u00e9velopp\u00e9s de l\u2019OCDE.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621477\" data-originallang=\"en\">La capacit\u00e9 de raffinage du Canada est suffisante pour r\u00e9pondre \u00e0 notre propre demande, et plus. Nous sommes un exportateur net de carburants, et nous en exportons de grandes quantit\u00e9s aux \u00c9tats-Unis et ailleurs. Le d\u00e9fi au sein du march\u00e9 actuel, c\u2019est que la capacit\u00e9 est d\u00e9j\u00e0 sup\u00e9rieure \u00e0 la demande. Par cons\u00e9quent, malheureusement, certaines raffineries ferment leurs portes, surtout dans ce qu\u2019on appelle le bassin de l'Atlantique; nous avons une surcapacit\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621478\" data-originallang=\"en\">Malheureusement, on a assist\u00e9 \u00e0 la fermeture de certaines raffineries du Canada, dont une tout pr\u00e8s de votre circonscription \u2014 la raffinerie de la P\u00e9troli\u00e8re Imp\u00e9riale de Dartmouth \u2014 et une autre \u00e0 Montr\u00e9al. Il y a 10 ans, une raffinerie d\u2019Oakville a ferm\u00e9 ses portes, et d\u2019autres aux \u00c9tats-Unis, dans les Cara\u00efbes et en Europe ont connu le m\u00eame sort. Cette situation est le reflet de la dynamique de l\u2019offre et de la demande dans un contexte de surcapacit\u00e9. C\u2019est donc un \u00e9norme d\u00e9fi lorsque vient le temps d\u2019investir 10 ou 15 milliards de dollars dans une nouvelle capacit\u00e9 de raffinage.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621479\" data-originallang=\"en\">Pour \u00eatre franc, nos membres ont de la difficult\u00e9 \u00e0 maintenir des raffineries durables, concurrentielles et ouvertes, surtout dans l\u2019est du Canada. Le bassin de l'Atlantique repr\u00e9sente l\u2019un des march\u00e9s les plus difficiles \u00e0 l\u2019heure actuelle, \u00e9tant donn\u00e9 le d\u00e9s\u00e9quilibre entre la capacit\u00e9 et l\u2019offre.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621480\" data-originallang=\"en\">Alors, c'est certain que l'acc\u00e8s au p\u00e9trole brut de l'Ouest et la capacit\u00e9 d'avoir acc\u00e8s \u00e0 un p\u00e9trole brut plus diversifi\u00e9 et de faire des choix en fonction des \u00e9carts de prix sont des facteurs importants pour assurer la comp\u00e9titivit\u00e9 des raffineries existantes. En fin de compte, les investisseurs d\u00e9termineront si ces facteurs ont suffisamment d'incidence sur la dynamique de la concurrence pour justifier un nouvel investissement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621481\" data-originallang=\"en\">Les investissements pour trouver des d\u00e9bouch\u00e9s \u00e0 l'ext\u00e9rieur du Canada sont tr\u00e8s difficiles. D'importants investissements se font d\u00e9j\u00e0 dans les raffineries sur la c\u00f4te du golfe aux \u00c9tats-Unis, ainsi qu'en Asie. Il faut se demander si la dynamique de l'offre et de la demande au sein des march\u00e9s nord-am\u00e9ricains traditionnels et aussi dans le monde entier permet d'att\u00e9nuer de fa\u00e7on satisfaisante les risques \u00e9conomiques, commerciaux, techniques et r\u00e9glementaires pour justifier un tel investissement.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3621482\" data-originallang=\"en\">Bref, c'est la complexit\u00e9 de... Ce serait bien de dire qu'on peut tout simplement raffiner le p\u00e9trole produit ici au Canada, et vendre des produits raffin\u00e9s. Il faudrait toutefois que le march\u00e9 s'y pr\u00eate; il faut pouvoir mettre en march\u00e9 ces produits et obtenir un rendement du capital investi raisonnable. Voil\u00e0 les enjeux auxquels sont confront\u00e9s les investisseurs d'aujourd'hui.</p>"
},
"url": "/committees/natural-resources/41-2/18/peter-boag-2/",
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"politician_membership_url": null,
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"source_id": "8265055",
"document_url": "/committees/natural-resources/41-2/18/",
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}
}