Speech (committee meeting)

{
    "time": "2013-12-04 16:45:00",
    "attribution": {
        "en": "Ms. Elizabeth May",
        "fr": "Mme Elizabeth May"
    },
    "content": {
        "en": "<p data-HoCid=\"3526514\" data-originallang=\"en\">Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526515\" data-originallang=\"en\">I'm not suggesting that by inserting the new offences under Bill <a data-HoCid=\"6266835\" href=\"/bills/41-2/C-8/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Copyright Act and the Trade-marks Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-8</a> into the Criminal Code we've reduced the threshold for obtaining a wiretap, but what we've done is insert an offence that is at this point still vague. It could, on my reading, and also that of a number of lawyers who would like to have testified to the committee\u2014taking Ms. Charlton's point\u2014but weren't invited. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526516\" data-originallang=\"en\">In particular I've been in touch with Howard Knopf of Perley-Robertson. He was involved as counsel in at least part of the Laurier Office Mart case, where a very minor offence, something like 332 dollars' worth of photocopying, ended in a costly court battle, particularly costly to the small family business that was involved.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526517\" data-originallang=\"en\"> Those kinds of offences could be caught under this provision to allow wiretapping.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526518\" data-originallang=\"en\">I'd further submit that because government amendment G-7 has changed the threshold of <em>mens rea</em> to make it clearer that a person\u2014and I think it was a good amendment. I thank the government members for bringing in G-7. But with the provision of G-7, to make it clear that a person actually has to have known that what they were doing was an offence, as opposed to knowing the particular sections of the act, and so on, we've reduced the threshold of <em>mens rea</em>. It even reduces further the need to treat this as a proper case for needing the investigative tool of wiretapping. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526519\" data-originallang=\"en\">You would think English wasn't my first language, Mr. Chair.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526520\" data-originallang=\"fr\">I am a bit tired.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526521\" data-originallang=\"fr\">That said, I think this provision is one too many.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526522\" data-originallang=\"en\">We don't need it. It inserts wiretapping opportunities where law enforcement won't need it, and the nature of offences could include very trivial offences, such as in the Laurier Office Mart case.</p>",
        "fr": "<p data-HoCid=\"3526514\" data-originallang=\"en\">Merci, monsieur le pr\u00e9sident. C'est appr\u00e9ci\u00e9.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526515\" data-originallang=\"en\">Je ne dis pas qu'en ajoutant les nouvelles infractions pr\u00e9vues au projet de loi <a data-HoCid=\"6266835\" href=\"/bills/41-2/C-8/\" title=\"An Act to amend the Copyright Act and the Trade-marks Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts\">C-8</a> au Code criminel, nous abaissons le seuil pour obtenir une autorisation d'\u00e9coute \u00e9lectronique, mais nous y ajoutons une infraction qui est encore assez vague. Je pourrais, d'apr\u00e8s mon interpr\u00e9tation et celle de beaucoup d'avocats qui auraient bien aim\u00e9 t\u00e9moigner devant le comit\u00e9, mais qui n'ont pas \u00e9t\u00e9 invit\u00e9s \u00e0 le faire, pour r\u00e9agir \u00e0 l'observation de Mme Charlton...</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526516\" data-originallang=\"en\">Plus pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment, j'ai parl\u00e9 avec Howard Knopf de Perley-Robertson. Il a travaill\u00e9 comme avocat au moins en partie dans l'affaire <em>Laurier Office Mart</em>, dans laquelle une infraction assez mineure, quelque chose comme des photocopies d'une valeur de 332 $, a donn\u00e9 lieu \u00e0 une bataille juridique on\u00e9reuse, surtout pour la petite entreprise familiale en cause.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526517\" data-originallang=\"en\">Cette disposition autorisant l'\u00e9coute \u00e9lectronique pourrait s'appliquer \u00e0 ce genre d'infraction.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526518\" data-originallang=\"en\">C'est d'autant plus vrai parce que l'amendement du gouvernement G-7 a modifi\u00e9 le seuil des infractions exigeant la <em>mens rea</em> afin qu'il soit bien clair qu'une personne... Je pense que c'est un bon amendement. Je remercie les d\u00e9put\u00e9s du parti minist\u00e9riel d'avoir d\u00e9pos\u00e9 la motion G-7, mais cette disposition, qui pr\u00e9cise qu'une personne devait savoir qu'elle commettait une infraction plut\u00f4t que de simplement conna\u00eetre l'existence de certains articles de la loi, par exemple, a pour effet d'abaisser le seuil des infractions exigeant la <em>mens rea</em>. Elle r\u00e9duit m\u00eame le besoin de traiter la chose comme requ\u00e9rant l'outil d'enqu\u00eate qu'est l'\u00e9coute \u00e9lectronique.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526519\" data-originallang=\"en\">On ne dirait pas que je m'exprime dans ma langue maternelle, monsieur le pr\u00e9sident. </p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526520\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Je suis un peu fatigu\u00e9e.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526521\" data-originallang=\"fr\">Cela dit, je pense que cette disposition est de trop.</p>\n<p data-HoCid=\"3526522\" data-originallang=\"en\">Nous n'en avons pas besoin. Elle permet l'\u00e9coute \u00e9lectronique dans des cas o\u00f9 les agents d'application de la loi n'en auront pas besoin et o\u00f9 la nature des infractions en cause pourrait \u00eatre tr\u00e8s insignifiante, comme dans l'affaire <em>Laurier Office Mart</em>.</p>"
    },
    "url": "/committees/industry/41-2/8/elizabeth-may-3/",
    "politician_url": "/politicians/elizabeth-may/",
    "politician_membership_url": "/politicians/memberships/4108/",
    "procedural": false,
    "source_id": "8181749",
    "document_url": "/committees/industry/41-2/8/",
    "related": {
        "document_speeches_url": "/speeches/?document=%2Fcommittees%2Findustry%2F41-2%2F8%2F"
    }
}